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5 hours ago, JayOzOne said:

Yep. I didn't know that Hawkeye and Ms. Marvel were slated for 2021 drops on Disney+. Marvel's timeline might lead to oversaturation.

 

 

Meh. We went a whole year with nothing after the biggest cliffhanger possible with Spider-Man, which was then followed by negotiation shenanigans threatening to rip him out of the MCU. Endgame wrapped up a definitive end for the original Avengers. I think fans are hungry for what comes next. I mean look how crazy we all theorized with Wandavision 😂

I do think oversaturation is a threat though, they are introducing a lot of new characters and still have a lot more to introduce between Fantastic 4 and X-Men. I really hope they don’t overdo it chasing the next big box office. Infinity War and Endgame were done extremely well for how much ground they had to cover and how many characters they followed…. but they also capped off a decade of storytelling and none of it felt rushed or overwhelming if you had followed the MCU to that point.

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23 minutes ago, Carter said:

Meh. We went a whole year with nothing after the biggest cliffhanger possible with Spider-Man, which was then followed by negotiation shenanigans threatening to rip him out of the MCU. Endgame wrapped up a definitive end for the original Avengers. I think fans are hungry for what comes next. I mean look how crazy we all theorized with Wandavision 😂

I do think oversaturation is a threat though, they are introducing a lot of new characters and still have a lot more to introduce between Fantastic 4 and X-Men. I really hope they don’t overdo it chasing the next big box office. Infinity War and Endgame were done extremely well for how much ground they had to cover and how many characters they followed…. but they also capped off a decade of storytelling and none of it felt rushed or overwhelming if you had followed the MCU to that point.

I think the question of oversaturation will concern how the shows set up the movies. We now know that Captain Marvel 2 will be titled The Marvels. If I show up and Monica Rambeau and Kamala Khan are co-leads with Carol Danvers, will I be starting in the middle of the story if I didn't watch them on Disney+? Will the eventual Young Avengers be confusing if I didn't watch the streaming shows? If Kang the Conqueror is the big bad of Loki and he's a pivotal part of Phase IV, will some people scratch their heads when he shows up?

They've done a deft job of world building. I've watched all of the Infinity Saga movies but I'm sure many have not. I'm just curious if there are people who won't go see the movies because they'll be walking in at the middle of something that they haven't been watching.

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5 hours ago, JayOzOne said:

Yep. I didn't know that Hawkeye and Ms. Marvel were slated for 2021 drops on Disney+. Marvel's timeline might lead to oversaturation.

 

 

Over saturation is certainly possible to non marvel fans.

I think that there is still a big big hunger for marvel fans. Even after 2 excellent tv shows.

 

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1 minute ago, falconsd56 said:

Over saturation is certainly possible to non marvel fans.

I think that there is still a big big hunger for marvel fans. Even after 2 excellent tv shows.

 

I'll buy that. But those non-fans are the market that pushes these movies into being blockbusters. There was concern over Ant-Mans box office because it only had a $500 million gate. I'll bet most of that was from fans of the comics, not people flipping a coin on something interesting to do next weekend. Personally, I'm over the moon over the slate on streaming and at the theater but wonder whether it's sustainable.

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1 minute ago, JayOzOne said:

I'll buy that. But those non-fans are the market that pushes these movies into being blockbusters. There was concern over Ant-Mans box office because it only had a $500 million gate. I'll bet most of that was from fans of the comics, not people flipping a coin on something interesting to do next weekend. Personally, I'm over the moon over the slate on streaming and at the theater but wonder whether it's sustainable.

This is true...but non fans usually are dragged to the movies by fans :)

I think 2021 is about making up for having nothing in 2020.

the 2022 slate is not as busy as this year so there will be a bit more breathing room.

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Posted (edited)

Just finished TF&TWS last night with my son. It had some really good moments, but ultimately I was disappointed. I probably have an unpopular opinion on this and I'm ok with that.. to each their own, but I think the show tried unsuccessfully to paint the Flag Smashers as freedom fighters vs terrorists, Sam's character didn't really develop or grow much, Sam's new suit was tacky, and John Walker had a really weird character arc.

  • Flag Smashers - I get they wanted the world to go back to working together to solve the problems of the "blip" but they had absolutely zero ideas other than steadily increasing the intensity of their statements. So far as I could tell the show didn't really show us what it was they were really fighting for or how their "one world, one people" philosophy was something they lived by. The show just didn't "sell" their message to me at all and as a result they were largely unsympathetic to me. 
  • Sam Wilson - Cool "normie" that has a unique skillset and equipment that allows him to work alongside and add value to the fight with the Gods Among Us. He just didn't really seem to grow much as a character during this show and he was THE focus more so than Bucky. His speech at the end, to me, was a real let down. Basically, he told off the GRC leaders that they 100% screwed everything up (arguable considering the magnitude of the issue they were tasked to deal with) and just said "do better." No ideas of his own to propose to make things right, just "you're doing it wrong, do better. no I don't know how to do it better, just do better." I fully get that's something that maybe can't be done well in a monologue hero speech at the end of a series, but there just wasn't any substance to his speech. Again, my opinion. His suit. God his suit was lame. The should, neck, headpiece all white.. gaudy. I liked the torso call-back to the original Captain America suit, but all the white just looked bad. Let's just say he ain't doing any more stealth work going forward that's for sure. Also got to wonder, if the suit was made in/provided by Wakanda what special cool tricks does it come with? I mean aside from the Kill Switch that they've clearly built into the thing like they did with Bucky's arm (that was a funny moment, by the way.. literally and figuratively "disarmed").
  • John Walker - Painted as a highly decorated, very respected war hero that was reluctant to take the mantle because he wasn't sure he could live up to it. Ok, good start. Looked more like a PR stunt by the US than an intended military asset (another callback to the original Captain America movie), but he took to the role pretty well initially I thought (funny moment, another callback "have you ever jumped on a grenade? Yeah, four times.") But then all the sudden he's running freelance missions with Battlestar or whatever his name was and he's showing ZERO ability to lead, make tactical decisions or even fight. And considering his history as a highly trained special ops person he's getting his *** handed to him in every fight. Kind of understandable I guess since he was a normie going up against Supers. So yeah, I understood the desire to take the serum so that he could actually do his job. That didn't even seem like a wholly bad idea. But then even when he's a Super he still isn't just ****house kicking the Flag Smashers. Yes they took the serum and were strong, but you know what? You pit a 20-something kid that clearly didn't even lift (@Garrow) up against a special forces dude with multiple tours in live combat situations and it really shouldn't be close. Really. Shouldn't. Be. Close. And yet we've got a 120 lb ginger with no military training going toe-to-toe with 6'2" male WITH military training. Yeah, suspension of disbelief failure. For me. So serum Walker then goes ape because his bestie dies, I understand.. bad call, unbefitting of the mantle, but yeah.. enemy combatant Supers just killed your normie best friend I get how he'd snap and go Ham for the first frickin' time all series. But then he's suddenly in this last episode literally shaking off the fog of war going on in his head and he's saving the truck instead of seeking vengeance on ginger. Cool to see he's coming back around to being the good guy he was originally before the Captain stuff was bestowed. But, then he's pal-ing it up with Bucky, friendly congenial pat on the shoulder and Bucky's NOT all like "whoa, dude step the f' back" like he does with EVERYBODY else. How are they on any kind of remotely good terms with each other? And then Walker is next seen changing clothes in the same court-martial/hearing/dressing down room as before and he's got.. a sort of different looking suit and is now US Agent and "yeah! I'm back!" WTH ever. I just didn't understand.
  • Miscellaneous - The Isaiah side story was cool; a bit of an MCU retcon, but was interesting for what it was. The actor did a great job showing the appreciation, relief, and weight off his shoulders when he saw the statue in the museum. Good stuff there. Sharon? Meh. It was ok. Probably a Skrull, but did have red blood. Which brings up the WTH was Sam doing carrying a dead super ginger terrorist out of the building while his ally, friend and savior Sharon is sitting against a column bleeding out and suffering what, in a non-MCU movie, would surely be an agonizing and very likely death by bullet wound in the gut. Yeah, let me majestically carry out this dead person in slowmo while leaving this other person to maybe die, maybe not. .I dunno I'm not even going to bother checking her out or calling "medic!" Ugh.

In all, it was an OK show. Super Hero stuff is almost always fun, entertaining, a break from our day-to-day and a way to make projections and maybe smatter some societal commentary (fine line to walk on that.. go WOKE go BROKE, yadayada). But all in all this one fell short of the WandaVision experience for me. WV had its issues as well (namely, yeah Wanda just sort of kidnapped and tortured an entire town for God knows how long and then she just walks off and everybody is like "Yeah she's suffered enough. Nevermind the suffering of all of these poor towns people and their families.. Wanda. Has. Suffered. Enough." But overall, WV was a really cool idea and experience and played very well in its run. TF&TWS.. meh. Too many missed opportunities. The showrunners, as Sam put it, "just need to do better."

Edited by Porkins
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I can't disagree with any of your points, @Porkins. I enjoyed it more than you did but there was a lot of fruit left on the vine. I didn't need to know more about the Flag Smashers because they were peripheral to the story being told. With that being said, it was a tough sell to show a handful of nomads being so relevant without showing or explaining their organization. It seemed kind of out of left field for a hundred or so supporters to all reveal themselves in Central Park. Who were those people? Surely, Karly wasn't the leader of an organization that vast? How? When? Maybe they can have somebody write it all in a book to fill in the details. That was where the show started falling off for me.

I agree that Sam's character wasn't developed over the series. I said before that he, Agatha Harkness and Vision were the only characters portrayed in shades of gray and I'm okay with that. I did like the fact that he had a family and headaches that extend beyond what we see in the movies. The speech was unmoving and made me roll my eyes. It was the point when I knew that they failed to stick the landing.

Sharon as the Power Broker was... underwhelming. There were certain things that didn't make sense about the revelation like how murdering her lieutentant or leading the crew to her chemist (where he was murdered). She created a huge blow to her organization when it was better to let the new kids in town fend for themselves. Emily Van Camp came off as unimpressive and Sharon Carter doesn't evoke any emotional response from me.

John Walker was a good villain for me until the end. I didn't need to like him and appreciated the fact that he was easy to dislike. Again, with his wife and Lamar's support, he was painted in shades of gray. The image of the shield dripping blood might be a top-5 MCU image. But for him to show up in the final episode and somehow redeem himself was a stretch. Absolutely unbelievable. At the point that he murdered the Flag Smasher, he went from being antihero to villain and seeing him smiling at the end of the show had all the earmarks of a studio decision to clean him up for future use. They blew it.

Bucky was the best thing about the show. And his psychiatrist. When I talk about shades of gray, they nailed all of them with his character and his arc. Again, they could have done more with less for him. Seeing him in therapy and watching him wake up on the floor of an apartment without furniture humanized him more than anybody in the MCU. Those scenes were better than all of the action sequences in the show IMO.

I'm in love with Ayo and if she's not featured in the Wakanda series, somebody needs to be fired.

A show about Isaiah Bradley's experiences would make a great movie. Extend it from before WWII and take it all the way through his incarceration. Carl Lumbly was perfect in that role, BTW.

If any of this makes it seem like I didn't thoroughly enjoy the show, then that's incorrect. I liked it in spite of obvious flaws and missed opportunities. Although I normally think these shows last too long, it's clear that six episodes for the story being told was probably two episodes short.

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The delay news for Blade is disappointing, but it’s also reassuring in a way that they’re taking the time to make it right. Especially since they apparently are going to make MCU Blade a PG13 experience. Part of me hopes it eventually gets the R rating, but I definitely won’t hold my breath. The MCU’s “PG13” has really been pushing the envelope on that rating, so I’m not overly concerned about the movie not being dark enough. Would be better with a full R though, as with Deadpool.

But they’re only keeping Deadpool rated R because it was such an established brand already. Feige said as much. We’ll see.

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6 hours ago, Carter said:

The delay news for Blade is disappointing, but it’s also reassuring in a way that they’re taking the time to make it right. Especially since they apparently are going to make MCU Blade a PG13 experience. Part of me hopes it eventually gets the R rating, but I definitely won’t hold my breath. The MCU’s “PG13” has really been pushing the envelope on that rating, so I’m not overly concerned about the movie not being dark enough. Would be better with a full R though, as with Deadpool.

But they’re only keeping Deadpool rated R because it was such an established brand already. Feige said as much. We’ll see.

 

I wonder will Marvel be able finally be the ones to methodically push PG-13 ratings with blood and gore.

 

Blade has to have blood and gore due to the nature of it's content.

 

If anyone can pull it off, it's Marvel. Disney has been okay with sexual references in some of the MCU films, they should experiment with more violent content within reason.

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4 hours ago, ya_boi_j said:

I tried to watch WandaVision. Maybe I'm just not a fan of magic powers or whatever. For me, the show isn't that great. I won't accept it just because it's Marvel

It’s a meditation on loss, grief, and depression, set in the context of playing with famous American sitcom tropes. I haven’t enjoyed any other Marvel property as much as it. 

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5 minutes ago, Mr. Hoopah! said:

It’s a meditation on loss, grief, and depression, set in the context of playing with famous American sitcom tropes. I haven’t enjoyed any other Marvel property as much as it. 

Yea see that doesn't peek my interest a bit. TBH, I'm not even fans of the characters, even in the movies. Me trying to watch it feels forced. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ya_boi_j said:

Yea see that doesn't peek my interest a bit. TBH, I'm not even fans of the characters, even in the movies. Me trying to watch it feels forced. 

I would suggest you don't watch it then. To each their own. I personally found it more creative and interesting than Falcon/Winter Soldier, but as someone here or there once wisely said "Opinions are like buttholes.. everyone has one and mine itches."

Edited by Porkins
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1 minute ago, Porkins said:

I would suggest you don't watch it then. To each their own. I personally found it more creative and interesting than Falcon/Winter Soldier, but as someone here or there once wisely said "Opinions are luck buttholes.. everyone has one and mine itches."

Oh I stopped. I'm not going to make myself like anything. They aren't characters I relate to. Bucky and Sam on the other hand, I would cry if one died. As you said, to each their own

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26 minutes ago, Porkins said:

I would suggest you don't watch it then. To each their own. I personally found it more creative and interesting than Falcon/Winter Soldier, but as someone here or there once wisely said "Opinions are like buttholes.. everyone has one and mine itches."

F and WS was better than I expected (I had pretty low expectations) but WandaVision was on another level than anything else in the MCU. It wasn’t perfect, but it was so **** good. I didn’t particularly care about Wanda or Vision before the show, but I’m a huge fan of both now. 

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16 minutes ago, Mr. Hoopah! said:

F and WS was better than I expected (I had pretty low expectations) but WandaVision was on another level than anything else in the MCU. It wasn’t perfect, but it was so **** good. I didn’t particularly care about Wanda or Vision before the show, but I’m a huge fan of both now. 

Realistically there was no reason to be a fan of either before the show unless you were a fan from the comics. They had no development and very little screen play. Neither grew on me enough. This might be the only scene I loved from either. She walked out like a boss

 

 

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The best thing about both shows is how they gave some depth to characters who were essentially scene fillers in the movies. The stars of Phases I through III were unequivacally Tony Stark, Steve Rogers, Natasha Romanoff (kind of), Scott Lang, Thor and Bruce Banner. You can't develop much more than that in an ensemble. Both series put flesh and bone on their protagonists. That's why I'm looking forward to Hawkeye, who is the most underdeveloped Avenger of all (along with Stephen Strange).

I can see how WandaVision is hit or miss for most people. I liked it more for the little moments than the big ones. And Elizabeth Olson totally sold it for me. Thoroughly enjoyed the whole thing. F&TWS was good but they somehow managed to be 1-2 episodes short at the same time that they ran out of gas. Absolutely failed to stick the landing. The last episode totally collapsed and I have to believe that if it had an 8-week run, it would have been much better.

I'll probably go back and watch WandaVision again in the next month or so but when I rewatch F&TWS, I'm going to watch episodes 1, 2, 3 and 5 only.

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3 minutes ago, shc said:

So I’ve never been into the marvel stuff, but my 5 year old special needs son has recently gotten in to it. Thanos and hulk are his favorite characters. 

He's a real one for choosing Thanos

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