Jump to content

Marvel Cinematic Universe


Recommended Posts

15 minutes ago, The Monarch said:

Haven't watched but I assume at least a one theory involves him not being Pietro (or Peter). He seems to know some history of Pietro's life before Westview, which no one else does (not even Vision). But though he seemingly recalls certain things about Pietro, the details don't seem right (e.g., shot like a chump for nothing). He doesn't seem to have any memories from Peter, which makes the pulled from another part of the multiverse seem wrong. And he doesn't just look different than Pietro, he acts differently - he's a different character entirely, play acting pieced together public memories of Pietro without the depth or warmth Pietro showed toward Wanda.

Assuming there's a big bad manipulating Wanda, Pietro also appeared right at a moment when that big bad would want to intervene - i.e., Vision imploring her to stop, maybe getting her to realize what was really happening.

While I had obviously watched Infinity War and Endgame, I had previously not watched the first Avengers movie, and only bits and pieces of Age of Ultron.  I've become MUCH more interested in MCU since Wandvision debuted, and as discussed I went back and watched Captain Marvel, with my interest in Monica/SWORD's backstory, and I also watched The Avengers on TV, and watched Age of Ultron on Disney + last night.

I agree that a theory that Quicksilver is not Pietro or even Peter makes sense based on his actions and comments. Wanda seeing a vision of dead Peter throws me for a loop there though, especially having watched Pietro's death (and Wanda's reaction) at the hands of Ultron last night. They are making a big deal out of Wanda and Quicksilver's memories not being the same, and he keeps trying to scare her (Nightmare!).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/14/2021 at 11:59 AM, Padawan Knight said:

New Rockstars had a really good video on this episode that goes into some theories about Quicksilver (using that name since we don't actually know if this is the Pietro or Peter version).

I watched that this afternoon. Lots to consider in this video. Pietro may be the actual villain. When Norm was telling Vision something (before Agnes shushed him), he may have been about to say that they're all dead. The hex being the catalyst for the X gene and introducing mutants into the MCEU. The fact that both Hayward and Pietro referred to nightmares. Pietro calling Tommy and Billy "demon spawn".

They're laying stuff out in plain sight that a lot of fans are going to flip out over once everything is revealed. Lots of dots are going to be connected in the next four weeks. There's a chance that they did a good job of getting this thing up in the air but might have difficulty landing it. Hopefully, it continues to become more compelling each week.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, I did some YouTube watching the other night which prompted some Google searches. There's the scene after Vision talks with Agnes (and then crosses Ellis Ave towards the barrier). It cuts to Monica, Woo, and Darcy while Darcy is looking through medical files to find Monica's report. The names of five other files are revealed (if you slow things down to frame-by-frame).

Now, we all know that Marvel Studios LOVES to put easter eggs in spots like this. The five files in question (thanks to a Reddit post) are: Project DJ-456, Project C4-113, R4-123, M5-247, and "Johnson, Ray". One person's theory is that Project M5-247 could reference: "Mephisto Vs. #2 Pages 4 & 7. The first panel on page 4 is Reed building a machine to pierce a dimensional barrier made by Mephisto, who is holding Susan hostage. Page [7] is a stranger at the door who is secretly Mephisto."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/14/2021 at 11:16 AM, The Monarch said:

So much happened in that episode we haven’t even discussed the brutal Yo-magic commercial.

Was just reading that Kevin Smith thinks that the commercial, along with Quicksilver referring to Tommy and Billy as demon spawn, do point to Mephisto being the villain after he thought the opposite after ep 5. He said that the Yo-magic commercial represents a dark figure, the shark, offering something that seems beneficial/nourishing, but it turns out to be not what was anticipated. Wanda is the kid and someone made a deal when her that seemed like a good deal but wasn’t. 

Quicksilver tells her that what she’s doing with controlling people in the Hex is great.

Kevin ended with, and I’ve seen a bunch of comments on Facebook that tie in with this, that it may be a mashup of Mephisto and Nightmare or using more of a general idea of Mephisto. The Facebook comments I’ve seen keep saying they can’t sell the Christian Devil as a character to Chinese audiences. I think they’ve got the same basic concern for American and worldwide audiences, but I think they can make him a demon without having to make him the ruler of HeIl. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, JayOzOne said:

I watched that this afternoon. Lots to consider in this video. Pietro may be the actual villain. When Norm was telling Vision something (before Agnes shushed him), he may have been about to say that they're all dead. The hex being the catalyst for the X gene and introducing mutants into the MCEU. The fact that both Hayward and Pietro referred to nightmares. Pietro calling Tommy and Billy "demon spawn".

They're laying stuff out in plain sight that a lot of fans are going to flip out over once everything is revealed. Lots of dots are going to be connected in the next four weeks. There's a chance that they did a good job of getting this thing up in the air but might have difficulty landing it. Hopefully, it continues to become more compelling each week.

 

I think this might be true, but honestly it has as much to do with us as them. As we can see from this thread (and countless articles/podcasts/youtube videos/tweets/etc.), fans now do so much speculating, so much sleuthing, that the end result is nearly always a bit of a letdown - either because you knew it was coming so it doesn't feel like a compelling reveal, or because it feels like a forced misdirection, etc. And the writers have to set it up in advance, knowing fans will be analyzing every minute detail. If they've done good world and story building, there will be some clues, but too much and it's a roadmap. That leads to completely compelling earlier episodes as we start to piece it all together, and maybe more disappointing episodes as we find out what we got right.

I honestly think that plagued the GoT team in a way that was really unfair to them. Trying to imagine having to plot out and and craft seasons under that kind of scrutiny, far enough in advance to allow for a massive, cinematic-scale production each week, but still under a cloud of secrecy. And Marvel is doing this in even more long-form style, setting up future movies, big-bads lying in the weeds for culminating events years down the line. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, The Monarch said:

 

I think this might be true, but honestly it has as much to do with us as them. As we can see from this thread (and countless articles/podcasts/youtube videos/tweets/etc.), fans now do so much speculating, so much sleuthing, that the end result is nearly always a bit of a letdown - either because you knew it was coming so it doesn't feel like a compelling reveal, or because it feels like a forced misdirection, etc. And the writers have to set it up in advance, knowing fans will be analyzing every minute detail. If they've done good world and story building, there will be some clues, but too much and it's a roadmap. That leads to completely compelling earlier episodes as we start to piece it all together, and maybe more disappointing episodes as we find out what we got right.

I honestly think that plagued the GoT team in a way that was really unfair to them. Trying to imagine having to plot out and and craft seasons under that kind of scrutiny, far enough in advance to allow for a massive, cinematic-scale production each week, but still under a cloud of secrecy. And Marvel is doing this in even more long-form style, setting up future movies, big-bads lying in the weeds for culminating events years down the line. 

I think this is the first show since True Detective Season 1 that I’ve been reading a lot of fan theories, and it’s mainly because there are clues to be found from the comics in addition to what the show teases. It is more enjoyable to not go sleuthing online and figure out a show before it ends, which I made a decision to try and avoid after diving into the Reddit theories during S1 of TD. 

It does make it hard on the show runners and MCU at large, but they also can’t do a full-blown Lost-style mystery because they have to write for such a wide ranging audience. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Mr. Hoopah! said:

I think this is the first show since True Detective Season 1 that I’ve been reading a lot of fan theories, and it’s mainly because there are clues to be found from the comics in addition to what the show teases. It is more enjoyable to not go sleuthing online and figure out a show before it ends, which I made a decision to try and avoid after diving into the Reddit theories during S1 of TD. 

It does make it hard on the show runners and MCU at large, but they also can’t do a full-blown Lost-style mystery because they have to write for such a wide ranging audience. 

MCU writers are in a uniquely difficult, albeit envious position. They have so much source material to draw from, but they are also somewhat constrained by that material. And as part of a huge corporate behemoth, they are constrained a bit in tone (though I give MCU credit for allowing some real diversity in styles) but more so by the need for the years long story building. So they can come up with a really neat show like WandaVision that gives two really cool characters their due, in a completely unique style - but it must adequately lead into Dr. Strange 2 and likely introduce or hint at a villain from that movie who may or may not be the "big bad" for this next phase of the MCU and also they need to seamlessly introduce Fox's marvel characters and maybe mutants entirely but only a taste so as not to take away from later vehicles and also in a way that won't constrain those later vehicles (e.g., if Wanda is the source of mutants in the MCU, how will that affect the use of over half-a-century of Marvel storytelling) and also be a mystery with lots of easter eggs for hardcore fans but not so much that casual fans can't follow and ...

*deep breath*

Yeah, it's tough. Like you, I usually try to avoid reading all the fan theories and analysis, but have done much more of it with this show. That's in part because of the care the writers put into it, wanting to see all of those tiny details and knowing it may be a long time before I can do a rewatch. But it also means I might have set myself up for a letdown. Thankfully, I'm usually pretty good at appreciating the product as separate from the process that produces it. If the final episodes show the same care and craft as earlier, I will enjoy them, even if the plot result is not what I would've hoped for.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally, I appreciate a lot of the YouTube videos. When I bought comics, I focused on 5-6 titles and I bought my last one nearly 20 years ago. There's no way I could have known about Wiccan and Speed, Wanda's connections with Mephisto and Agatha Harkness, or even something as subtle as the Grim Reaper being Simon Williams' brother. The depth of the source material is too much to appreciate without the extra help. If I didn't rely on others, I'd be watching an entertaining show with half the appreciation of seemingly random details that turn out being significant Easter eggs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, JayOzOne said:

Personally, I appreciate a lot of the YouTube videos. When I bought comics, I focused on 5-6 titles and I bought my last one nearly 20 years ago. There's no way I could have known about Wiccan and Speed, Wanda's connections with Mephisto and Agatha Harkness, or even something as subtle as the Grim Reaper being Simon Williams' brother. The depth of the source material is too much to appreciate without the extra help. If I didn't rely on others, I'd be watching an entertaining show with half the appreciation of seemingly random details that turn out being significant Easter eggs.

That's why I watch Emergency Awesome. I would never catch easter eggs on my own lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JayOzOne said:

Personally, I appreciate a lot of the YouTube videos. When I bought comics, I focused on 5-6 titles and I bought my last one nearly 20 years ago. There's no way I could have known about Wiccan and Speed, Wanda's connections with Mephisto and Agatha Harkness, or even something as subtle as the Grim Reaper being Simon Williams' brother. The depth of the source material is too much to appreciate without the extra help. If I didn't rely on others, I'd be watching an entertaining show with half the appreciation of seemingly random details that turn out being significant Easter eggs.

I'm in a similar boat. I haven't read comics in earnest in 25 years, and I've only kept up tangentially. At the very least, reading reviews from knowledgeable viewers is really helpful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe I’m the weirdo lol I don’t really get drawn in to figuring out exactly what’s going to happen. I think about it, yeah, but I stopped digging deep into shows I like a long time ago. I try to just roll with it. Main reason I don’t even touch threads for shows or movies if I haven’t seen it yet.

It is neat to see some of the theories though

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JayOzOne said:

Personally, I appreciate a lot of the YouTube videos. When I bought comics, I focused on 5-6 titles and I bought my last one nearly 20 years ago. There's no way I could have known about Wiccan and Speed, Wanda's connections with Mephisto and Agatha Harkness, or even something as subtle as the Grim Reaper being Simon Williams' brother. The depth of the source material is too much to appreciate without the extra help. If I didn't rely on others, I'd be watching an entertaining show with half the appreciation of seemingly random details that turn out being significant Easter eggs.

 

35 minutes ago, The Monarch said:

I'm in a similar boat. I haven't read comics in earnest in 25 years, and I've only kept up tangentially. At the very least, reading reviews from knowledgeable viewers is really helpful.

 

29 minutes ago, Carter said:

Maybe I’m the weirdo lol I don’t really get drawn in to figuring out exactly what’s going to happen. I think about it, yeah, but I stopped digging deep into shows I like a long time ago. I try to just roll with it. Main reason I don’t even touch threads for shows or movies if I haven’t seen it yet.

It is neat to see some of the theories though

I don't like figuring out what's going on and ruining the show either, but I guess because there's source material, and because the show is just so **** interesting, I got sucked back into looking up things.  I don't watcg YT videos, but I've read plenty of theory articles and done general wikipedia reading of various comic characters and storylines.  It's been interesting, even if it doesn't play out on the show, to learn all of the comic stuff. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Padawan Knight said:

So, I did some YouTube watching the other night which prompted some Google searches. There's the scene after Vision talks with Agnes (and then crosses Ellis Ave towards the barrier). It cuts to Monica, Woo, and Darcy while Darcy is looking through medical files to find Monica's report. The names of five other files are revealed (if you slow things down to frame-by-frame).

Now, we all know that Marvel Studios LOVES to put easter eggs in spots like this. The five files in question (thanks to a Reddit post) are: Project DJ-456, Project C4-113, R4-123, M5-247, and "Johnson, Ray". One person's theory is that Project M5-247 could reference: "Mephisto Vs. #2 Pages 4 & 7. The first panel on page 4 is Reed building a machine to pierce a dimensional barrier made by Mephisto, who is holding Susan hostage. Page [7] is a stranger at the door who is secretly Mephisto."

So, no comments on Ray Johnson being one of the medical files? 🤔

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Padawan Knight said:

So, no comments on Ray Johnson being one of the medical files? 🤔

That’s some interesting info. I saw this article and it seems there are a few breadcrumbs pointing a trail toward Wolverine.

I had hoped Storm might be the first mutant introduction through Black Panther, but if that was in the plans it probably had to be scrapped with Boseman’s passing.

After Adam from Guardians vol. 2 went nowhere as a reference to Adam Warlock being involved in the Infinity Gauntlet storyline, I try not to read too much into the Easter egg stuff. It is pretty cool how they link together different parts of the cinematic universe that way or reference the comics though. I can’t wait to see how they handle Fantastic Four and X-Men.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, JayOzOne said:

Personally, I appreciate a lot of the YouTube videos. When I bought comics, I focused on 5-6 titles and I bought my last one nearly 20 years ago. There's no way I could have known about Wiccan and Speed, Wanda's connections with Mephisto and Agatha Harkness, or even something as subtle as the Grim Reaper being Simon Williams' brother. The depth of the source material is too much to appreciate without the extra help. If I didn't rely on others, I'd be watching an entertaining show with half the appreciation of seemingly random details that turn out being significant Easter eggs.

I hadn't read a comic in twenty years.  Started again about five years ago.  It's amazing the amount of source material that exists.  There's a lot of retconning that happens as well, so this can contradict what you think you know! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Herr Doktor said:

I hadn't read a comic in twenty years.  Started again about five years ago.  It's amazing the amount of source material that exists.  There's a lot of retconning that happens as well, so this can contradict what you think you know! 

Yeah this is a good point regarding the retconning. Especially with MCU. Unlike the comics, MCU is trying to maintain a single consistent timeline and they make new movies or shows that can change or give a different understanding of past events. In the comics they just start fresh with new story arcs all the time.

Plus with Endgame they introduced time travel and the concept of creating new branching timelines/dimensions by changing the past. Not to mention the next Doctor Strange movie should be exploring the multiverse concept in full I would expect. Mysterio was good misdirection in Far From Home, seems to have opened everyone up to the concept of a multiverse even though it was a total lie in FFH.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Carter said:

Yeah this is a good point regarding the retconning. Especially with MCU. Unlike the comics, MCU is trying to maintain a single consistent timeline and they make new movies or shows that can change or give a different understanding of past events. In the comics they just start fresh with new story arcs all the time.

Plus with Endgame they introduced time travel and the concept of creating new branching timelines/dimensions by changing the past. Not to mention the next Doctor Strange movie should be exploring the multiverse concept in full I would expect. Mysterio was good misdirection in Far From Home, seems to have opened everyone up to the concept of a multiverse even though it was a total lie in FFH.

The thing with the easter eggs is not that they're necessarily important (they're not even alluded to in the episodes) but that they provide depth. They're only hold significance if you know about them and most people need help catching 90% of them.

As I've stated before, Marvel's done a good job of plumbing the comics for story lines and arcs. Of course, most of what is presented is different than in the pages of the comics but it's the ultimate in fan service to present the most popular storylines onscreen.

Looks like Spider-Man will have a big role in DS: ITMOM and if Tobey McGuire and Andrew Garfield are indeed being cast in Spider-Man 3, the multiverse will have a lot to do with him as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...