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vel

4-3 Under, The Leo And The Falcons Multiple Defense

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He seems to think our 4-3 under alignment isn't a 4-3 under because Jelly is lined up in the 4 tech instead of the 5.

Just semantics. Maybe if we actually had a 5 tech DT they would be lined up in the 5 tech position.

Basically. And I'm not in the business of arguing semantics when you don't even know the overall formation.

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Basically. And I'm not in the business of arguing semantics when you don't even know the overall formation.

Apparently the difference in 6-8 inches completely changes to formation to him....

vel likes this

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Argh man this thread is going to the pack AAARRRGGGHHHH...

We can't let it! Lol I think the people who enjoyed it, got what they need from it.

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To get this thread back on track, how many of each player do we need? 3-tech, 5-tech, 1/0-tech, Leo, etc.

Looking at the roster I feel like Osi, experience aside, offers the least value. I think Babineaux should be resigned, because he still has plenty to offer at the 3 and has enough versatility to play the 5. Corey Peters could be pretty cheap, although if we have a chance to bring back Vance Walker, I think we should.

I'd cut Osi, resign Babineaux and Peters to play the 3, sign Cody and Soliai to play nose, sign Tyson Jackson to play 5, then draft Mack to be Leo and SLB with Bartu filling in there when he has his hand in the dirt.

So I'd have it as follows:

5-tech: Goodman, Jackson

3-tech: Babineaux, Peters

1/0-tech: Soliai, Cody

LEO: Mack, Massaquoi, Maponga

SLB: Mack, Bartu

3-4 OLB: Mack, Massaquoi, Maponga

WLB: Spoon

MLB: Worrilow

ILB: Dent

Much improved front seven in my opinion.

This also gives us a lot of flexibility in the 2nd or to trade back up into the 1st. Staying put I'd take Gabe Jackson or David Yankey, trading back up I'd aim for Hageman, Donald, or Pryor.

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Just a quick one guys when it comes to DT's in this LEO front is it better to go with legit 2 gappers or does it not matter ??

I think the best route is to go how I mocked in the previous post. We need to sign guys who are great at certain technique and rotate them in and out depending on the front.

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Just a quick one guys when it comes to DT's in this LEO front is it better to go with legit 2 gappers or does it not matter ??

Really man, it doesn't matter a whole lot where that is concerned. When speaking in terms of this, the convo shifts to utility. You want many different types of players for amny different reasons and for amny different roles. It is now wise to look for a "space eater".

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Ever think that maybe Jerry is lined up wrong because he sucks and that's why he won't be resigned?

And also, this was a still. He could've moved over before the snap. If not, I still think the most likely thing is that he lined up incorrectly.

Lol I was going to post this.

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To get this thread back on track, how many of each player do we need? 3-tech, 5-tech, 1/0-tech, Leo, etc.

Looking at the roster I feel like Osi, experience aside, offers the least value. I think Babineaux should be resigned, because he still has plenty to offer at the 3 and has enough versatility to play the 5. Corey Peters could be pretty cheap, although if we have a chance to bring back Vance Walker, I think we should.

I'd cut Osi, resign Babineaux and Peters to play the 3, sign Cody and Soliai to play nose, sign Tyson Jackson to play 5, then draft Mack to be Leo and SLB with Bartu filling in there when he has his hand in the dirt.

So I'd have it as follows:

5-tech: Goodman, Jackson

3-tech: Babineaux, Peters

1/0-tech: Soliai, Cody

LEO: Mack, Massaquoi, Maponga

SLB: Mack, Bartu

3-4 OLB: Mack, Massaquoi, Maponga

WLB: Spoon

MLB: Worrilow

ILB: Dent

Much improved front seven in my opinion.

This also gives us a lot of flexibility in the 2nd or to trade back up into the 1st. Staying put I'd take Gabe Jackson or David Yankey, trading back up I'd aim for Hageman, Donald, or Pryor.

I like with exception of Babs and peters, I still think--and could be wrong btw--were going to see 3 5 tech body types and 2 NTs. I scoured Nolan's rosters from NYG to Miami and it seems to be his preference. Long, Not paunchy but strong 6'4" to 6'7" 280-315 5 tech types that can line up inside or kick out to DE in both 34 and 43s and whatever base. And he almost always has 2 true NTs. I can't find the Babs types or even Peters types. Nolan's DL tend to be physical, long armed and rugged.

Now watch, he'll switch gears and draft 2 midgets lol

But seriously, I could see Michael Johnson signed and Linval Joseph or a Randy Starks and Cody or Raji. Followed by a drafting of say Tuitt or Hageman and maybe a NT like Ellis or Jones. Possibly even another late round long guy like Urban from UVA

Your signing of Jackson seems possible as well.

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I like with exception of Babs and peters, I still think--and could be wrong btw--were going to see 3 5 tech body types and 2 NTs. I scoured Nolan's rosters from NYG to Miami and it seems to be his preference. Long, Not paunchy but strong 6'4" to 6'7" 280-315 5 tech types that can line up inside or kick out to DE in both 34 and 43s and whatever base. And he almost always has 2 true NTs. I can't find the Babs types or even Peters types. Nolan's DL tend to be physical, long armed and rugged.

Now watch, he'll switch gears and draft 2 midgets lol

But seriously, I could see Michael Johnson signed and Linval Joseph or a Randy Starks and Cody or Raji. Followed by a drafting of say Tuitt or Hageman and maybe a NT like Ellis or Jones. Possibly even another late round long guy like Urban from UVA

Your signing of Jackson seems possible as well.

It certainly wouldn't surprise me if we didn't sign Peters until after the draft if we didn't get what we wanted. That way my scenario would make more sense if all went as planned, we'd trade back up for Hageman who has the 5/3 versatility. That'd leave us with Babineaux, Soliai, Cody, Hageman, and Robertson at DT. I could certainly live with that.

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absolutely! SOme of the guys and myself talked about trying to get the boards more calm. No need for 98% of the arguments here. like recently I explained my thoughts on Ryan rather than to just say, he's not my QB. It made all the difference. I think we should all get our attitudes in tact in come together.

I'd actually be interested in reading that. Where is it? I've noticed in several threads, but have never really pressed on it. Assumed it had to do with being cerebral and immobile as opposed to gunslinger with ability to buy time, but never knew.

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I like with exception of Babs and peters, I still think--and could be wrong btw--were going to see 3 5 tech body types and 2 NTs. I scoured Nolan's rosters from NYG to Miami and it seems to be his preference. Long, Not paunchy but strong 6'4" to 6'7" 280-315 5 tech types that can line up inside or kick out to DE in both 34 and 43s and whatever base. And he almost always has 2 true NTs. I can't find the Babs types or even Peters types. Nolan's DL tend to be physical, long armed and rugged.

Now watch, he'll switch gears and draft 2 midgets lol

But seriously, I could see Michael Johnson signed and Linval Joseph or a Randy Starks and Cody or Raji. Followed by a drafting of say Tuitt or Hageman and maybe a NT like Ellis or Jones. Possibly even another late round long guy like Urban from UVA

Your signing of Jackson seems possible as well.

Music to my ears.

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He seems to think our 4-3 under alignment isn't a 4-3 under because Jelly is lined up in the 4 tech instead of the 5.

Just semantics. Maybe if we actually had a 5 tech DT they would be lined up in the 5 tech position.

I'm gonna let you explain why Jelly is in a 4T position. Then I'm gonna wait for the announcement that we are moving to a 4-3 under base defense and will draft the players to achieve that. Oh and while you're at it post up the number of times we ran a 4-3 under, not just one still that aint even a 4-3 under.

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Just a quick one guys when it comes to DT's in this LEO front is it better to go with legit 2 gappers or does it not matter ??

Like KOG said, it's not really a strict requirement but you do need more than 3 UTs like we currently have. The personnel depends on what scheme you want to utilize at the time. Hence, why KOG keeps dropping the "utility" term. The strength of Nolan's "scheme", if you want to call it that, is being able to change the defense at the drop of a hat. If you have DL that can play multiple positions, you can change the front of the defense in one shift.

But that's where having good, smart LBs comes into play (and why Spoon pisses me off). They have to know which front would be best utilized to the stop the predicted offensive play. I can't tell you how many times I've seen Spoon not even lined up in his gap, let alone shifting/correcting the DLine. If seen it happen from Worrilow and Bartu multiples times and they are UDFA rookies. Give them more experience and you will see a more multiple defense. It's not a coincidence, the better Nolan's LBs, the better his defense.

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I'd actually be interested in reading that. Where is it? I've noticed in several threads, but have never really pressed on it. Assumed it had to do with being cerebral and immobile as opposed to gunslinger with ability to buy time, but never knew.

I have always liked Ryan for what he is, but I was seriously annoyed at the way he was being pushed. It can't be immobility. I have a been a fan of guys who are way less than mobile. I even liked Dilfer in his time with the Ravens. Most of my fave QB's have been Game Managers and guys who end up being misused and labeled bust. I was very excited when we drafted Kurt Kittner. I just knew he would our Frank Reich.

Here is the thing. I see Matt Ryan in a different light. Strengths and weaknesses. I am not a fan of pushing a QB into Franchise mode. I think you place him with a super RB and OL and we have a great QB. I think if you keep playing with the OL and give him no RB he will never close.

Many QB's can get a bad OL and help them out. Boost their egos and confidence, cause them to think they are better than they really are for the one extra second of protection. Its a talent. Ryan may be a leader, but he needs time still to hone that skill and until then he needs guys who can be put on auto pilot, to see how its done.

This offends some people and they say..."That's all QB's." Yeah, I know. Which is why it boggles my mind they expected so much, so soon. ???

Like KOG said, it's not really a strict requirement but you do need more than 3 UTs like we currently have. The personnel depends on what scheme you want to utilize at the time. Hence, why KOG keeps dropping the "utility" term. The strength of Nolan's "scheme", if you want to call it that, is being able to change the defense at the drop of a hat. If you have DL that can play multiple positions, you can change the front of the defense in one shift.

But that's where having good, smart LBs comes into play (and why Spoon pisses me off). They have to know which front would be best utilized to the stop the predicted offensive play. I can't tell you how many times I've seen Spoon not even lined up in his gap, let alone shifting/correcting the DLine. If seen it happen from Worrilow and Bartu multiples times and they are UDFA rookies. Give them more experience and you will see a more multiple defense. It's not a coincidence, the better Nolan's LBs, the better his defense.

Exactly that!!!

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Another thing that people have not really realized yet is that the Ravens are not really a 3-4 team as listed. Technically they are a 4-3 team because they run the 4-3 under much more than they run 3-4 sets. Suggs has been their LEO DE/OLB and has spent more time as a weakside LEO DE than a 3-4 OLB.

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In this defense I'd feel a little more comfortable with anthony barr. Still don't think he will live up to a top 10 pick, but he could be decent in this scheme.

Much rather have mack.

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good thread...and I don't see anything wrong with FFS1970 other than the way he asked his questions...but it was confusing for people to distinguish the alignment of the lineman to show we aren't going to a 3-4 but moreso a 4-3 Under, then say distinguishing the alignment of the lineman isn't important...good thread though, just have to learn how to explain your thoughts instead of getting defensive when someone questions them

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Another thing that people have not really realized yet is that the Ravens are not really a 3-4 team as listed. Technically they are a 4-3 team because they run the 4-3 under much more than they run 3-4 sets. Suggs has been their LEO DE/OLB and has spent more time as a weakside LEO DE than a 3-4 OLB.

100% truth!

Source: I keep up with the Ravens since they were the Browns. ;)

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I have always liked Ryan for what he is, but I was seriously annoyed at the way he was being pushed. It can't be immobility. I have a been a fan of guys who are way less than mobile. I even liked Dilfer in his time with the Ravens. Most of my fave QB's have been Game Managers and guys who end up being misused and labeled bust. I was very excited when we drafted Kurt Kittner. I just knew he would our Frank Reich.

Here is the thing. I see Matt Ryan in a different light. Strengths and weaknesses. I am not a fan of pushing a QB into Franchise mode. I think you place him with a super RB and OL and we have a great QB. I think if you keep playing with the OL and give him no RB he will never close.

Many QB's can get a bad OL and help them out. Boost their egos and confidence, cause them to think they are better than they really are for the one extra second of protection. Its a talent. Ryan may be a leader, but he needs time still to hone that skill and until then he needs guys who can be put on auto pilot, to see how its done.

This offends some people and they say..."That's all QB's." Yeah, I know. Which is why it boggles my mind they expected so much, so soon. ???

For the bolded, I don't think that's anything to frown at though. Brady isn't half the QB he is without the OL and running game he had this year and he's one of the best. We went away from the basics and put everything on Ryan's plate (a la Peyton). It's not surprising Peyton keeps failing with that model. Get Ryan an above average OL and a running game, and the offense takes off, not just Ryan.

But let's not turn this thread into a Ryan thread and attract what comes with those things.

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I'm gonna let you explain why Jelly is in a 4T position. Then I'm gonna wait for the announcement that we are moving to a 4-3 under base defense and will draft the players to achieve that. Oh and while you're at it post up the number of times we ran a 4-3 under, not just one still that aint even a 4-3 under.

just give it up old man. stick to nicknames.

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