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The Obamacare Website - How Does It Represent A Failure Of Government?


Leon Troutsky
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You don't change decades long trends in two weeks. Markets are effective, but they are also slow and often lumbering.

And you feel confident that we will see these plans start shifting to look more like what we have been told over the past few years? If so, why?

Honest question - is it true that apart from avoiding the penalty, there is no incentive to carry health insurance when the law goes into full effect? Is it true that I could forego carrying health insurance, have some catastrophic injury or medical condition, then go onto the exchange and purchase health care and be covered? If that is indeed the case, and especially if you are relying on the young and healthy for this to function, what in the world gives you such optimism? If true, then I don't see how costs don't go up further.

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I find it hilarious that the liberal hacks are still insisting that this law only took effect 2 weeks ago, or that the provisions won't be law until next year...

...when people see a storm coming, they react by buying supplies and re-enforcing their houses. The fact that it hasn't hit land yet doesn't mean that the hurricane hasn't affected peoples' lives yet.

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Two quick things and then I have to run:

First, I didn't see where it said how many children he has. Yes, $12,500 is high for two people, but then so is $6000 for singles, so it's not really different from the single option.

Second, it also said that his rates would go up to about $440 a month. If he has a single child, that's still not a lot of money given the rising costs of health insurance over the past decade. If he has more than one child, that's actually kind of cheap for three people.

C'mon Snake, read the article. I even put that part in bold up above

If the 33-year-old single father wants the same level of coverage next year as what he has now with the same insurer and the same network of doctors and hospitals, his monthly premium of $233 will more than double.If he wants to keep his monthly payments in check, the Carpentersville resident is looking at an annual deductible for himself and his 7-year-old daughter of $12,700, a more than threefold increase from $3,500 today.

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And you feel confident that we will see these plans start shifting to look more like what we have been told over the past few years? If so, why?

Honest question - is it true that apart from avoiding the penalty, there is no incentive to carry health insurance when the law goes into full effect? Is it true that I could forego carrying health insurance, have some catastrophic injury or medical condition, then go onto the exchange and purchase health care and be covered? If that is indeed the case, and especially if you are relying on the young and healthy for this to function, what in the world gives you such optimism? If true, then I don't see how costs don't go up further.

The pre-existing condition provision would mean that no one would need to buy insurance until they actually have something to use it for.

...But, if you were going that route, you can simply skip insurance altogether and declare yourself an illegal immigrant. Illegals are specifically granted immunity from Obamacare's taxes and penalties.

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And you feel confident that we will see these plans start shifting to look more like what we have been told over the past few years? If so, why?

Honest question - is it true that apart from avoiding the penalty, there is no incentive to carry health insurance when the law goes into full effect? Is it true that I could forego carrying health insurance, have some catastrophic injury or medical condition, then go onto the exchange and purchase health care and be covered? If that is indeed the case, and especially if you are relying on the young and healthy for this to function, what in the world gives you such optimism? If true, then I don't see how costs don't go up further.

and that is a worry. If someone chooses to pay the penalty rather than carrying insurance, is one day diagnosed with cancer. He may then sign up because he cannot be denied for a pre-existing condition.

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And you feel confident that we will see these plans start shifting to look more like what we have been told over the past few years? If so, why?

Honest question - is it true that apart from avoiding the penalty, there is no incentive to carry health insurance when the law goes into full effect? Is it true that I could forego carrying health insurance, have some catastrophic injury or medical condition, then go onto the exchange and purchase health care and be covered? If that is indeed the case, and especially if you are relying on the young and healthy for this to function, what in the world gives you such optimism? If true, then I don't see how costs don't go up further.

How do they differ from what you have been told over the last few years?

I think your second question is pretty important. I don't know the answer to that.

I'm not optimistic, I'm patient. I'm also 100% certain that what we had before was not acceptable.

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The idea is that the penalties will eventually be stiffer than basic bronze level insurance plans, which aren't that expensive. Since people with low, or even average income individuals will see partial or complete subsidization from the government as they go(not a bulk tax refund), it would be a better idea to simply get the insurance rather than end of paying a percentage of your income or the flat fee(whichever is higher). In the long run though, the fees are supposed to make up for those that refuse to buy insurance.

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The idea is that the penalties will eventually be stiffer than basic bronze level insurance plans, which aren't that expensive. Since people with low, or even average income individuals will see partial or complete subsidization from the government as they go(not a bulk tax refund), it would be a better idea to simply get the insurance rather than end of paying a percentage of your income or the flat fee(whichever is higher). In the long run though, the fees are supposed to make up for those that refuse to buy insurance.

The highest penalty I've seen, and still several years out, is $695. $695 to float by, knowing you can always jump on the bus if disaster strikes (especially if you're a jobless 20-something looking at paying thousands for insurance you likely won't need) is a no-brainer. $695 won't support the system.

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The idea is that the penalties will eventually be stiffer than basic bronze level insurance plans, which aren't that expensive. Since people with low, or even average income individuals will see partial or complete subsidization from the government as they go(not a bulk tax refund), it would be a better idea to simply get the insurance rather than end of paying a percentage of your income or the flat fee(whichever is higher). In the long run though, the fees are supposed to make up for those that refuse to buy insurance.

love me some democratic party here......only Obama can get a $2,000 penalty( also known as a tax) through on middle income America....

Obama has declared WAR on the middle class and the young people that voted him into office. Oh, the irony.

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The highest penalty I've seen, and still several years out, is $695. $695 to float by, knowing you can always jump on the bus if disaster strikes (especially if you're a jobless 20-something looking at paying thousands for insurance you likely won't need) is a no-brainer. $695 won't support the system.

or 2.5% of your income, whichever is higher. Unless you're making less than 30,000 a year, it's always going to be greater than 2.5%. When making less than 30,000 a year as an individual, you're going to see a fairly decent amount of your plan subsidized, so you end up losing money by not signing up.

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or 2.5% of your income, whichever is higher. Unless you're making less than 30,000 a year, it's always going to be greater than 2.5%. When making less than 30,000 a year as an individual, you're going to see a fairly decent amount of your plan subsidized, so you end up losing money by not signing up.

Not if you don't need access to healthcare.

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The penalty will end up exceeding how much you would pay(if anything) by signing up for a healthcare plan and letting it be partially or wholly subsidized by the gubment.

What I'm saying is, even if you made 100,000, your penalty is merely 2500. If you chose to do so, you could pay the penalty and forego carrying health insurance, then simply enroll as needed.

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Essentially what I'm getting at is, at it's core, this only helps the sick (whose annual healthcare expenditures exceed what they'll be paying in ACA coverage) and the poor, who's subsidized coverage won't contribute to the pool. For anyone else, it's invitation for a free ride, only paying the penalty, if they chose to do so (until the thing crumbles).

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Essentially what I'm getting at is, at it's core, this only helps the sick (whose annual healthcare expenditures exceed what they'll be paying in ACA coverage) and the poor, who's subsidized coverage won't contribute to the pool. For anyone else, it's invitation for a free ride, only paying the penalty, if they chose to do so (until the thing crumbles).

and crumble it will. Before this is all said-n-done, the Democrats in congress are going to be begging for Obamacare to just go away - when they realize it will cost them their power seat in Washington DC.

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