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Hba 2014 Mock Draft V.2


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4. No thanks to Kouandjio, I'd rather have Lewan or Matthews in the 1st or Hurst in the 2nd

I would prefer Matthews or Lewan, but I doubt they are available where we are picking. I think Kouandjio has the "potential" to be better than both. I think his footwork, hand placement, and pad level are improving. I like his long arms. Cyrus will never be confused for Anthony Munoz or Jonathon Ogden, but he is comparable to All-Pro LT Duane Brown.

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A couple of things I would like to comment on is, I think Greg Hardy would command a much large contract. Not to mention I seriously doubt we will go down that avenue of signing a big FA DE quite so soon after the Ray Edwards fiasco. The only reason that Avril go the contract he receive is because he priced himself out of the market early on. He was looking for an annual payout of $10+ million per year and once the market dried up he had no choice but to sign with Seattle.

Not sure that if I value your first 5 pick as much as you do.

That deal for Hardy also exceeds the deals offered to Michael Bennett, Robert Geathers, and Osi Umenyiora. The big FA DE contracts signed last season went to 3-4 DEs like Ricky Jean-Francois and Desmond Bryant.

One other thing I should have mentioned is that I have us drafting in the mid-teens instead of #5, which is where we were projected in your original mock. Sorry about that. As for not valuing the top 5, can you expand on that and tell me what you don't like?

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That deal for Hardy also exceeds the deals offered to Michael Bennett, Robert Geathers, and Osi Umenyiora. The big FA DE contracts signed last season went to 3-4 DEs like Ricky Jean-Francois and Desmond Bryant.

One other thing I should have mentioned is that I have us drafting in the mid-teens instead of #5, which is where we were projected in your original mock. Sorry about that. As for not valuing the top 5, can you expand on that and tell me what you don't like?

Bennett, Geathers & Osi are not in the same class as Hardy. I think Kayoh actually hit the nail on the head commenting Bama oline. They are great in run blocking but struggle at pass pro which are team now is a throw first offense.

You also mention DE contracts, the two players you mentioned are 3-4 DE which financially are not valued as much as 4-3 DE. I'm think more of a Paul Kurger type deal might land Hardy.

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So because Warmack isn't having a great rook year he sucks as do all Bama O.linemen? Seems short sighted. I'd rather look at each guy individually then make sweeping statements.

In all fairness to Kayoh, Andre Smith struggled to make the transition also. That was because he held out, reported out of shape, and got hurt in training camp.

On the flip side, DJ Fluker has played pretty good this season. He even had a rather nice bodyslam against the Raiders

ChargersBodySlamRaiders.gif

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In all fairness to Kayoh, Andre Smith struggled to make the transition also. That was because he held out, reported out of shape, and got hurt in training camp.

On the flip side, DJ Fluker has played pretty good this season. He even had a rather nice bodyslam against the Raiders

ChargersBodySlamRaiders.gif

Yeah which he hurt himself, great!!! And Barrett Jones & Michael Johnson to the list. For a school that has a reputation for having the best olinemen not sure if I can name one that is a stud.

Edited by Ken n clarks bish from aug
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Bennett, Geathers & Osi are not in the same class as Hardy. I think Kayoh actually hit the nail on the head commenting Bama oline. They are great in run blocking but struggle at pass pro which are team now is a throw first offense.

You also mention DE contracts, the two players you mentioned are 3-4 DE which financially are not valued as much as 4-3 DE. I'm think more of a Paul Kurger type deal might land Hardy.

Greg Hardy and Bennett are in the same class. In 57 career games, Bennett has 111 Tackles, 19.5 sacks, and 4 forces fumbles. In 52 career games, Hardy has 117 tackles, 22 sacks, and 6 forced fumbles.

I understand people and there school related bias. I am the same way myself with Florida WRs. However, since 2000, there have been 5 Alabama O-Lineman drafted in the 1st round and 12 overall. It has been a mixed bag of success with Chris Samuels being an obvious standout.

I also know that Jean-Francois and Bryant are 3-4 DEs, as I said that in my post.

I believe that Paul Krueger is considered more of a 3-4 OLB than he is a DE.

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Greg Hardy and Bennett are in the same class. In 57 career games, Bennett has 111 Tackles, 19.5 sacks, and 4 forces fumbles. In 52 career games, Hardy has 117 tackles, 22 sacks, and 6 forced fumbles.

I understand people and there school related bias. I am the same way myself with Florida WRs. However, since 2000, there have been 5 Alabama O-Lineman drafted in the 1st round and 12 overall. It has been a mixed bag of success with Chris Samuels being an obvious standout.

I also know that Jean-Francois and Bryant are 3-4 DEs, as I said that in my post.

I believe that Paul Krueger is considered more of a 3-4 OLB than he is a DE.

Well if you truly believe Bennett and Hardy are in the same class why you have us signing Hardy versus Bennett?

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In all fairness to Kayoh, Andre Smith struggled to make the transition also. That was because he held out, reported out of shape, and got hurt in training camp.

On the flip side, DJ Fluker has played pretty good this season. He even had a rather nice bodyslam against the Raiders

ChargersBodySlamRaiders.gif

Neither Fluker nor Smith are the athlete Cyrus K is

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SMH Andre Smith is a top 3 RT in the league.

Evan Mathis is a top 3 OG.

Chance Warmack and Barrett Jones are just rookies.

Top 3 where? How can you even consider either guy top anything when neither has ever made a pro bowl in their career? Seriously I don't even have to list a name to know that doesn't make any sense!!!!

Not to mention Smith was just a FA and no one other than the Bengals even considered signing him. No one!

Jordan Mills is a rookie and you know how high I was on him prior to the draft. This is a prime example, if I would have said Mills was a better prospect than Fluker or Warmack you would have pointed to the fact that they went to Bama and played against better competition than LaTech. So far Mills is having the better year.

Edited by Ken n clarks bish from aug
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11 guards I would consider better than Mathis (Mike Lupati, Jahri Evans, Logan Makins, Marshal Yanda, Zane Beadles, Carl Nicks, Ben Grubbs, Chris Snee, Andy Levitre, Louis Vasquez, Justin Blalock)

12 RT I would consider better than Smith (Sebastian Vollmer, Michael Oher, Orlando Franklin, Phil Loadbolt, Marshal Yanda (yes he plays both guard and tackle), Luke Joeckel, Eric Fisher, Lane Johnson, Jordan Mills, Jonathan Martin, Marcus Gilbert, Anthony Davis.

Edited by Ken n clarks bish from aug
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11 guards I would consider better than Mathis (Mike Lupati, Jahri Evans, Logan Makins, Marshal Yanda, Zane Beadles, Carl Nicks, Ben Grubbs, Chris Snee, Andy Levitre, Louis Vasquez, Justin Blalock)

12 RT I would consider better than Smith (Sebastian Vollmer, Michael Oher, Orlando Franklin, Phil Loadbolt, Marshal Yanda (yes he plays both guard and tackle), Luke Joeckel, Eric Fisher, Lane Johnson, Jordan Mills, Jonathan Martin, Marcus Gilbert, Anthony Davis.

No way is Blalock better than Mathis, I will give you the others.

Your OT list is complete BS. A list of premier OTs and it doesn't include Joe Thomas or Duane Brown? Those two have been All-Pros the last 2 season.

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Well if you truly believe Bennett and Hardy are in the same class why you have us signing Hardy versus Bennett?

I prefer Hardy over Bennett simply due to the fact that Hardy is a little better at the Zone Blitz game, that the Falcons seem to favor, with 15 passes defended vs Bennett's 3. Of course, maybe Tampa Bay didn't ask Bennett to drop out that much

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Top 3 where? How can you even consider either guy top anything when neither has ever made a pro bowl in their career? Seriously I don't even have to list a name to know that doesn't make any sense!!!!

Not to mention Smith was just a FA and no one other than the Bengals even considered signing him. No one!

Jordan Mills is a rookie and you know how high I was on him prior to the draft. This is a prime example, if I would have said Mills was a better prospect than Fluker or Warmack you would have pointed to the fact that they went to Bama and played against better competition than LaTech. So far Mills is having the better year.

Oh so now the pro bowl actually means something when it benefits your argument?

Because he was wanting too much money and teams were worried about his past.

No I liked Mills coming out. Just because he is better in his rook year doesn't mean he always will be though. Rookies develop at different rates.

Some quotes to back me up on Smith.

"grading out as Pro Football Focus' No. 4 offensive tackle in 2012"

"finally lived up to his draft status as a mauling run blocker and fine pass protector"

"Smith was perhaps the league's most dominant right tackle in 2012"

"after being the No. 6 overall pick in the 2009 draft, but he has turned into one of the best run-blocking tackles in the NFL."

That's just a few quotes.

Quotes on Mathis

"graded out as Pro Football Focus' No. 1 guard in 2012."

"the Eagles' offensive MVP from 2012."

"After receiving a "nice" offer from the Ravens"

"Mathis, 30, is coming off a dominant season."

"the underrated Mathis was named a starter on Pro Football Focus' 2011 All-Pro squad."

Edited by Kennesaw77
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Oh so now the pro bowl actually means something when it benefits your argument?

Because he was wanting too much money and teams were worried about his past.

No I liked Mills coming out. Just because he is better in his rook year doesn't mean he always will be though. Rookies develop at different rates.

Some quotes to back me up on Smith.

"grading out as Pro Football Focus' No. 4 offensive tackle in 2012"

"finally lived up to his draft status as a mauling run blocker and fine pass protector"

"Smith was perhaps the league's most dominant right tackle in 2012"

"after being the No. 6 overall pick in the 2009 draft, but he has turned into one of the best run-blocking tackles in the NFL."

That's just a few quotes.

Quotes on Mathis

"graded out as Pro Football Focus' No. 1 guard in 2012."

"the Eagles' offensive MVP from 2012."

"After receiving a "nice" offer from the Ravens"

"Mathis, 30, is coming off a dominant season."

"the underrated Mathis was named a starter on Pro Football Focus' 2011 All-Pro squad."

When has Pro bowl/All Pro not counted? You never had with me where I said it did not, especially when you are considering someone to be the best in their position. Now the question I have for you is why are you using stats, just last week you and I had a conversation about Derek Carr where I mentioned stats and you said stats do translate to success. Now you are throwing profootball focus statistics? Looks like you are playing both sides of the fence sir!

Not looking at any quotes or anything like that and using your own knowledge would not say after looking at my list that both Mathis and Smith are not top 3. If so please list the player you think they are better than.

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No way is Blalock better than Mathis, I will give you the others.

Your OT list is complete BS. A list of premier OTs and it doesn't include Joe Thomas or Duane Brown? Those two have been All-Pros the last 2 season.

On durability alone Blalock is better player, Mathis has only played a 16 game season once in a 9 year career. Blalock has only missed two starts his entire career which was his rookie year.

Edited by Ken n clarks bish from aug
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Speaking of quotes,

Fresno State senior Derek Carr has "everything you want from your quarterback from a character standpoint," according to one NFL executive.

"He's a two-time elected captain at Fresno State," The executive told NFL.com's Daniel Jeremiah. "He has done a ton of community work, he's a man of faith and his family is very important to him. He has always shown resilience in crunch time on the football field. We expect off-field impact to factor into the decision making process more than ever this season, and Carr should impress the national media in the same way during the Senior Bowl and Combine.

Source: NFL.com

Former NFL scout John Middlekauff has talked to multiple pro evaluators who believe Fresno State senior QB Derek Carr will ultimately be a first-round pick this May.

Crazier things have happened, but we don't expect this to come to fruition. Carr is playing in a lateral offense that focuses on quick throws to the boundary and edges of the field, but he might be best at throwing vertically. He is very quick in his movements but tends to fall away from passes that would force him to draw contact upon release. Teams who run an offense that values tempo and quick triggers will likely value Carr more. Middlekauff did add that the same scouts currently have a second day grade on Carr, but they expect him to rise during the process.

Source: John Middlekauff on Twitter

CBS Sports' Dane Brugler believes Fresno State senior QB Derek Carr is more likely to be a first-round pick than San Jose State senior QB David Fales.

Carr has a cannon and a quick release, but is being asked to focus on short to intermediate targets rather than testing downfield. We look forward to seeing how he responds to tight situations in a closing pocket. Fales, however, does not possess the same arm but has good pocket movement and vision. He won't fit every offense.

Source: Dane Brugler on Twitter

Sep 24 - 12:44 PM

http://www.rotoworld...0964/derek-carr

Edited by Ken n clarks bish from aug
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Former Eagles scout John Middlekauff would be "shocked" if Fresno State senior QB Derek Carr is not a top-10 selection in May.

Middlekauff believes Carr has the "best pure passing arm" in the class and adds David's younger brother will rise from January to May. Carr will almost certainly be invited to the Senior Bowl, which will put him on an even playing field with other top senior passers. We like that he is not falling away from pressure as much as last season, but Carr isn't traditional from a footwork standpoint.

Source: John Middlekauff on Twitter

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When has Pro bowl/All Pro not counted? You never had with me where I said it did not, especially when you are considering someone to be the best in their position. Now the question I have for you is why are you using stats, just last week you and I had a conversation about Derek Carr where I mentioned stats and you said stats do translate to success. Now you are throwing profootball focus statistics? Looks like you are playing both sides of the fence sir!

Not looking at any quotes or anything like that and using your own knowledge would not say after looking at my list that both Mathis and Smith are not top 3. If so please list the player you think they are better than.

Pro bowl is a joke and a popularity contest.

No not playing both sides at all. I'm saying stats in college don't matter because everyone has good stats. Stats in the nfl matter, although they aren't everything. PFF isn't even stats anyway.

Couldn't understand what that last part was supposed to say.

Edited by Kennesaw77
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On durability alone Blalock is better player, Mathis has only played a 16 game season once in a 9 year career. Blalock has only missed two starts his entire career which was his rookie year.

LMAO so now durability makes a player better. hahahahahhaha dude that's a joke.

He was a late bloomer anyway. Throughout the last 3 years he has not missed a game so far.

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Some quotes on Carr from others:

Ian Kenyon: Carr's "arm talent" is undeniable, but his footwork scares the crap out of me.

Ian Kenyon: I just wish he consistently stepped into his throws. There's so many warning flags with Carr and his footwork

Ian Kenyon: I can't get on the Derek Carr bandwagon.

Ian Kenyon: Just based on some limited viewing. I'd feel more comfortable with Hundley than I would Carr or Mariota if I were an NFL team.

Ian Kenyon: Carr seriously doesn't step into half of his throws, it's infuriating. Even when he's not pressured.

Ben Albright: Carr is the 10th best QB in the draft.

Bucky Brooks: Carr also threw the ball 70+ times in that game.. But he only averaged 6.2 yards per attempt.. Bridgewater averaged 10 YPA

Bucky Brooks: I can say it because stats aren't always the determining factor in an evaluation. Bridgewater is far more talented than Carr.

Matt Miller: Carr beat up an empty defense.

Matt Miller: I feel Very uneven. He does have a huge arm, though.

Scott Wright: Just to be clear I don't have 1st Round grades on Carr. I see Carr as Day 2 type right now.

Tom Melton: Carr sure doesn't seem to like contact. Worth noting.

Josh Norris: Okay Carr… you flip the ball forward to avoid contact at all cost

Josh Norris: I’ll never be comfortable with Carr’s style.

Eric Stoner: The bad thing about Carr though, is that he's not comfortable unless he has a ton of space to operate, it kinda negates the quicker movement

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