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Falconsfan567

2014 Atlanta Braves Off-Season Thread

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For the record, bWAR uses performace metrics like runs allowed and innings pitched to calculate WAR for pitchers. Fangraphs bases their pitching WAR on FIP. Because of this, FF567 is correct in pointing out that playing in front of substandard defense can effect bWAR more so that fWAR. It's for that reason I usually use fWAR when looking at pitchers.

Really? See I didn't know that. But good to know.

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Will Medlen and Beachy ever stay healthy?

From what I can tell, Medlen stayed mostly healthy from 1985-2010. Beachy likewise was healthy from 1986-2012.

Those seem like pretty good runs.

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From what I can tell, Medlen stayed mostly healthy from 1985-2010. Beachy likewise was healthy from 1986-2012.

Those seem like pretty good runs.

laugh.png

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What the does does your last comment mean then? I mean you said WAR. I posted the numbers to back up my point.

That using WAR is subjective. Exactly what I said. I can't write it any more clearly than that. The sentence that proceed my stating the subjectivity of the matter was an entirely different thought and statement.

One last thing though. I'm not sure where you get the idea that Norris is a GB pitcher. The guy has a GB/FB ratio in line with Santana and Tommy Hanson.

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That using WAR is subjective. Exactly what I said. I can't write it any more clearly than that. The sentence that proceed my stating the subjectivity of the matter was an entirely different thought and statement.

One last thing though. I'm not sure where you get the idea that Norris is a GB pitcher. The guy has a GB/FB ratio in line with Santana and Tommy Hanson.

You made a post that says and I quote "In WAR? No, not really." What did you mean by that comment?

And I got that idea from the way he pitched against the Braves. Considering that's the only time I've ever seen him pitch is in those games against the Braves I wasn't really sure.

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You made a post that says and I quote "In WAR? No, not really." What did you mean by that comment?

And I got that idea from the way he pitched against the Braves. Considering that's the only time I've ever seen him pitch is in those games against the Braves I wasn't really sure.

That it wasn't swayed by the quality of the team that said player was a part of.

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That it was swayed by the quality of the team that said player was a part of.

Exactly. Norris being able to post a WAR close to Santana considering the difference in teams they have played on should be a plus in Norris's column.

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Exactly. Norris being able to post a WAR close to Santana considering the difference in teams they have played on should be a plus in Norris's column.

I misread what you were asking and wrote my response incorrectly. I was stating that WAR wasn't swayed by the type of team a player is on.

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I misread what you were asking and wrote my response incorrectly. I was stating that WAR wasn't swayed by the type of team a player is on.

How can it not be? If you can't post better numbers because the team behind you is terrible then it's going to reflect poorly on you. Look at what k26dp posted about how Fangraphs calculates their war based on FIP (taking into account a team's defense) and it greatly boosts Norris's numbers to get a better read on how he's done. Which puts him right in line with Ervin Santana.

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How can it not be? If you can't post better numbers because the team behind you is terrible then it's going to reflect poorly on you. Look at what k26dp posted about how Fangraphs calculates their war based on FIP (taking into account a team's defense) and it greatly boosts Norris's numbers to get a better read on how he's done. Which puts him right in line with Ervin Santana.

FIP removes defense entirely. It only accounts for the player himself.

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FIP removes defense entirely. It only accounts for the player himself.

Exactly what I was trying to say. Which puts Norris on the exact same level as Santana.

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How do you evaluate pitchers?

I look at their numbers as a whole. I'll look at how many innings they are throwing on a yearly basis (this takes into account how effective a pitcher is on a per start basis, as a guy isn't going to amass a ton of innings if he isn't being effective during his starts. Hence Santana's 2012 season being at 178 IP compared to his other 200+ IP seasons), then I look at their WHIP, walk rates, K/BB, the league they play in, and the type of parks they pitch in frequently (as to say, I'm going to give a guy pitching in say..Texas or Philly a higher grade for pitching well over a guy who pitches well in OAK or LAD). Sounds like more work, but I like looking at the bigger picture, taking in to account everything he does instead of going to one number to quantify his quality.

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Exactly what I was trying to say. Which puts Norris on the exact same level as Santana.

I don't use FIP either, which I've said before. It basically penalizes a guy for being a flyball pitcher. Just about every year Tommy Hanson would have a FIP well above his actual ERA, based solely on the fact that he would give up more HRs than a GB pitcher or a guy with a higher GB/FB ratio.

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I look at their numbers as a whole. I'll look at how many innings they are throwing on a yearly basis (this takes into account how effective a pitcher is on a per start basis, as a guy isn't going to amass a ton of innings if he isn't being effective during his starts. Hence Santana's 2012 season being at 178 IP compared to his other 200+ IP seasons), then I look at their WHIP, walk rates, K/BB, the league they play in, and the type of parks they pitch in frequently (as to say, I'm going to give a guy pitching in say..Texas or Philly a higher grade for pitching well over a guy who pitches well in OAK or LAD). Sounds like more work, but I like looking at the bigger picture, taking in to account everything he does instead of going to one number to quantify his quality.

Ok, good. I can appreciate that.

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I don't use FIP either, which I've said before. It basically penalizes a guy for being a flyball pitcher. Just about every year Tommy Hanson would have a FIP well above his actual ERA, based solely on the fact that he would give up more HRs than a GB pitcher or a guy with a higher GB/FB ratio.

You can do well with FIP being a fly-ball pitcher, given good K/BB ratio. If any kind of pitcher is not served well by FIP it's extreme groundball pitchers that don't strike out a lot of guys. Tim Hudson, for example, constantly outperforms his FIP.

I like WAR as a shorthand, but it's better to look at an array of metrics. You also need to know their recent history. Take Santana for example... last year's success coincided with his developing a third pitch (sinker or change-up, depending on who you talk to) and increasing its usage. His fastball is pretty mediocre, and getting a second pitch to work with the slider really helped him. It makes me think that last year's success may be sustainable, at least for a few more years before age-based decline starts to occur.

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With a potential extension on the horizon Mike Minor has switched agents. He joined Jet Sports Management which is headed by BB Abbott who represented Chipper his whole career along with McCann. Venters is also an Abbott client. Abbott does have an impressive collection of young talent. Chris Sale, Brian Buxton, Zack Wheeler and Mike Zunino to name a few.

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AM I the only one that has been super impressed by what I have been seeing out of Alex Wood?

Nope. I have been nothing but impressed with this kid since day one. I was impressed with him at Georgia too.

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