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A Common Sense Look At The Ryan Vs Flacco Elite Debate


gazoo
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It was never Ryan vs Flacco, they never once lined up against each other. The truth is, it was the Falcons organization vs the Ravens organization vs the 49ers organization on down.

Winning and losing is a collective effort of an entire franchise from the ownership, to the front office, the scouts, the trainers, the statistitions, the coaching, assistent coaching, the players, the schemes, the play calling, the player utilization, overall talent level, and the entire roster of players on special teams, defense and offense. Another way of saying this is all franchises have strengths and weaknesses, and collectively these must be better than the other franchises strengths and weaknesses to win.

Just to get to the playoffs requires a collective effort of all these components to be better than the collective components of the teams you are playing all season long.

Once in the playoffs, to make this all about each teams QB play is just as ridiculous. A QB can't win ANY GAME without the collective effort of all these components being better than the collective effort of the opposing team's components.

To say a QB is elite only if his franchise wins a Super Bowl is just as ridiculous. With this line of reasoning, Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Dan Marino was. Do you know how silly that is to suggest? If you were putting an NFL team together, you would pick Trent Dilfer to be your franchise QB over Dan Marino? Really? Is Tony Gonzalez** not an elite TE because his franchise never won a SB? Of course not.

To say a QB that makes mistakes in big games is disqualified from being elite is just as silly. Joe Montana and Peyton Manning threw 21 interceptions in playoff games. Tom Brady has thrown 22 interceptions in playoff games. These guys Franchises won Super Bowls due to the collective components of their franchise all being better than the collective components of their opponents.

Let's look at this years playoffs. Some here are claiming SIMPLY BECAUSE The Ravens franchise won the Super Bowl and the Falcons franchise did not, that somehow that means Flacco is elite and Ryan is not. This illogic creates the mind numbing to witness "Ryan vs Flacco" debate. If Flacco didnt have his STs score a TD he loses the SB and suddenly isn't elite in your mind? If the Falcons STs ran back a kickoff for a TD in the 49ers game as Flaccos did, the Falcons would have been in the Super Bowl and certainly in a position to win it.

Ryan is one of the components of the Falcons franchise that is a strength. The weaknesses on the Falcons were really exploited in the 2nd half of the playoff games by offensive coordinators noting things such as John Abraham playing at 25%, lack of an overall pass rush, Stephen Nicholas not being able to cover a TE, DeCoud not being able to tackle, our defensive and offensive lines being mediocre and smallish and a mediocre running game. We lost to the 49ers because all their components were 1 play, 10 yards better than ours, including the coaching staff, the schemes, the playcalling, the offenses, defenses and special teams.

Please, I beg you to stop with the primitive arguments about Ryan vs Flacco, they never lined up across from each other.

It would be true to say the Ravens were an elite team in the 2012 season and the Falcons were not an elite team in the 2012 season based on which team won the SB, THAT is a sound argument that accounts for all components.

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It was never Ryan vs Flacco, they never once lined up against each other. The truth is, it was the Falcons organization vs the Ravens organization vs the 49ers organization on down.

Winning and losing is a collective effort of an entire franchise from the ownership, to the front office, the scouts, the trainers, the statistitions, the coaching, assistent coaching, the players, the schemes, the play calling, the player utilization, overall talent level, and the entire roster of players on special teams, defense and offense. Another way of saying this is all teams have strengths and weaknesses, and collectively these must be better than the other teams strengths and weaknesses to win.

Just to get to the playoffs requires a collective effort of all these components to be better than the collective components of the teams you are playing all season long.

Once in the playoffs, to make this all about the Qbs is just as ridiculous. A QB can't win ANY GAME without the collective effort of all these components being better than the collective effort of the opposing team's components.

To say a QB is elite only if his franchise wins a Super Bowl is just as ridiculous. With this line of reasoning, Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Dan Marino was. Do you know how silly that is to suggest? If you were putting an NFL team together, you would pick Trent Dilfer to be your franchise QB over Dan Marino? Really? Is Tony Gonzolas not an elite TE because his franchise never won a SB? Of course not.

To say a QB that makes mistakes in big games is disqualified from being elite is just as silly. Joe Montana and peyton Manning threw 21 interceptions in playoff games. Tom Brady has thrown 22 interceptions in playoff games. These guys Franchises won Super Bowls due to the collective components of their franchise all being better than the collective components of their opponents.

Let's look at this years playoffs. Some here are claiming SIMPLY BECAUSE The Ravens franchise won the Super Bowl and the Falcons franchise did not, that somehow that means Flacco is elite and Ryan is not. This argument ignores all other components of the franchise and creates this mind numbing to witness "Ryan vs Flacco" debate. If Flacco didnt have his outstanding STs return game scoring a TD he loses the SB and suddenly isn't elite in your mind? If the Falcons STs ran back a kickoff for a TD in the 49ers game as Flaccos did, we would have been in the Super Bowl and certainly in a position to win it.

Ryan is one of the components of the Falcons franchise that is a strength. The weaknesses on the Falcons were really exploited in the 2nd half of the playoff games by offensive coordinators noting things such as John Abraham playing at 25%, lack of an overall pass rush, Stephen Nicholas not being able to cover a TE, DeCoud not being able to tackle, our defensive and offensive lines being mediocre and smallish and a mediocre running game. We lost to the 49ers because all their components were 1 play, 10 yards better than ours, including the coaching staff, the schemes, the playcalling, the offenses, defenses and special teams.

Please, I beg you to stop with the primitive arguments about Ryan vs Flacco, they never lined up across from each other, their franchises played each other.

It would be true to say the Ravens were an elite team in the 2012 season and the Falcons were not an elite team in the 2012 season based on which team won the SB, THAT is a sound argument that accounts for all components.

Amen.

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Interestingly how these guys are always linked together. Since Signing Day just occured I looked up & found on Scout web site that back in 2003 they were rated right behind each other...Both 3 stars coming out of High School.

rated # 43 Flacco to Pittsburg

rated #44 Ryan to BC

John David Booty was #1 - to USC

Aaron Rogers # 23 (from JC) - to Cal

http://recruiting.sc...&pid=10&yr=2003

All said and done. I'm happy we got Ryan.

Edited by AEFalcon
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I agree. Im really getting tired of these ryan vs flacco debates but they have and will always be compared....

This Ryan vs Flacco thing is an incoherent debate to date. The premise of most posters arguments collapse under examination. It truely is mind numbing to witness.

The troll(s) are having a grand time with it though. The more I read some of the recent threads on this topic the more I'm convinced we have just one troll with multiple accounts.

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This Ryan vs Flacco thing is an incoherent debate to date. The premise of most posters arguments collapse under examination. It truely is mind numbing to witness.

The troll(s) are having a grand time with it though. The more I read some of the recent threads on this topic the more I'm convinced we have just one troll with multiple accounts.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Nobody could.

Baltimore > Atlanta this past year, not Flacco > Ryan or vice versa.

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I totally agree with most of what you are saying here as well as your second post in this thread.

I just want to add to it that it isn't the 'trolls' that throws up a QB's win/loss record in a thread. I can count numerous times (mostly in Cam N. threads but others as well) were the response is always 'whats ryan's record and what is cam's?' People on both sides need to learn this.

You win and loss as a TEAM. No one is above this.

Edited by ProFalconFan
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Very well said. Matt played well enough this season to win a Superbowl. Sure he had the interception (I know it was because Roddy slipped) and the fumble (freak play that has never happened to him before) but all in all, he definitely played well enough to win. Our defense did a good job on the opening 2 possessions against the 49ers, but after that didn't do a whole lot. Flacco played very well this postseason, and luckily for him he also had other pieces of the team step up and contribute. Football is a team sport where one person cannot do as much for their team like other sports. All of the pieces of a team need to step up and contribue together in order to have success.

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I still put it on Ryan to some degree that we lost he had the fumble and was only 10 yards from a trip too the super bowl.And I do believe our offense would have ran that Ravens D right out of NO's.

If that were Rodgers,Manning,Big Ben or Brady (the elite) I feel they would have got the TD so bad defense or not blowing the 17-0 lead or not we had a chance to win and Ryan and the offense choked.

With that being said they did rise to the occasion and play good football like they needed to. I can't really remember this team in a huge game play there best football of the season and with so much on the line.I think they really grew as a team and know there so close to winning it all in another words they know there good maybe even the best in the NFL you'd be shocked in what a little extra confidence can do.

As far as Ryan vs Flacco its not even close Ryan is on another level. Don't get me wrong Flacco's good but just take the 49ers Ryan did almost what Flacco did in the first half.

Not to mention if Ryan had beat the 49ers it would have been his 2nd game winning drive of the post season not to mention he also killed the clock as well. Me for one would like to see how Flacco performs when its crunch time that and consistency is really what separates Flacco and Ryan in my opinion.

Edited by joe 1982
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Look, you guys just call him Joe "cooler than ice" Flacco and be done with it.

And if the OP is going to argue there is only one franchise "elite" every year, then you must admit, in their history, Atlanta has never been elite in their existance.

That has to be sadder than just admitting you guys picked the wrong QB.sad.png

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I still put it on Ryan to some degree that we lost he had the fumble and was only 10 yards from a trip too the super bowl.

I agree, but only to the larger picture of the franchises entire components all being a part. For instance, you mentioned we were just 10 yards from a trip to the Super Bowl. If you are going to lay that 10 yards on the back of Matt Ryan, you also have to acknowledge that the most miniscule little tweak may have made the difference in every single snap of that game. What if we had picked up a better FA DE than Ray Edwards that made one single play in the game so we wouldn't have been in that position at end of game? What if we had a different play called and tha play and the 2 just before that? What if on defense, on one of the TD passes that SF threw, what if we had actually covered the receiver better or knocked the ball out of the air? What if we didn't have a blown coverage mid game that gave the 49ers a first down on a drive they ultimately scored a TD? What if we didnt have a drive killing penalty? What if our STs had provided us better field position a couple of times, or, perhaps run a punt of kickoff back for a TD? What if one of our defenders had caused an extra turnover? What if one of out RBs broke off a long run on a drive we ended up punting on?

You have to look at the entire picture, every single snap, all the players out there and pklays that were called and you can see how we could have made up that 10 yards on any single one of the snaps in that game. You can;t ignore this fact, and then claim it was all about a single snap.....it was not, it was about ALL the snaps collectively on defense, offense and STs all coming up 10 yards short of the Super Bowl for us, and all coming up 10 yards ahead for them. They were 10 yards better than us over the course of the game.

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Look, you guys just call him Joe "cooler than ice" Flacco and be done with it.

And if the OP is going to argue there is only one franchise "elite" every year, then you must admit, in their history, Atlanta has never been elite in their existance.

That has to be sadder than just admitting you guys picked the wrong QB.sad.png

Lol youre joking right? Flacco is good for the ravens but he wouldnt be a good fit with the falcons. Falcons wouldnt BE in the playoffs this year with flacco, let alone in the superbowl! Lol.

Flacco was put on the ravens team to not lose, they had the other pieces to be great. Falcons needed a QB to win, and continously put them on his back. Flacco is mediocre AT BEST in the regular season which has been good enough for the ravens but wouldnt be nearly good enough for the falcons to win. Since entering the league RYAN is the winningest QB in the NFC, and leads the league in Game Winning drives in that time frame. With the 24th ranked overall defense and 29th ranked running game we were 10 yards away from a superbowl. Ryan is a great fit for the falcons, flacco would be a horrible fit for us. Flacco would be a good for with the 49ers also. A team with everything else in place to be great. Flacco is not the type of QB make a bad team into contenders because of his mediocre play during the regular season.

Ryan would be great on the ravens though, All of his playoff preformances could have been wins if he played for the ravens. Flacco has 2 playoff WINS where he didnt throw any touchdowns and multiple INTs, he also has a playoff WIN where he threw 34 yards. He has a great team around him that picks up his slack. He had a GREAT run this year, the ravens were clicking on all sides.

Edited by BrandonDell_
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As far as Ryan vs Flacco its not even close Ryan is on another level.
Is that the level where you commit multiple turnovers in the playoffs?
Don't get me wrong Flacco's good but just take the 49ers Ryan did almost what Flacco did in the first half.
Actually both of their 1st halves were quite similar. Didn't Ryan have like 276 yards and 3TDs? Flacco had 192 yards and 3 TDs.

84 yards difference. Oh and Ryan was at home, in the dome.

Me for one would like to see how Flacco performs when its crunch time that and consistency is really what separates Flacco and Ryan in my opinion.

Crunch time like throwing a 70 yard TD pass with 30 seconds left in a playoff game in sub zero temeperatures in Denver?
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Lol youre joking right? Flacco is good for the ravens but he wouldnt be a good fit with the falcons. Falcons wouldnt BE in the playoffs this year with flacco, let alone in the superbowl! Lol.

You have no basis to this. Its literally you talking out of your ***. How wouldnt he have been a good fit with weapons like Roddy, Julio and Tony G. Flacco clearly has more talent than Ryan. Better arm and better mobility . Ravens were a balanced offense that ran and pass the ball. Flacco had 3800 yards passing. You are telling me with a extra 100 pass attempts he couldnt have gotten to 5k passing yards with the likes of Julio Jones catching the ball please man... STOP TALKING OUT OF YOUR ***... You dont know if Flacco was on Falcons we wouldnt have been a playoff team. You have n basis

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