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What The Falcons Need To Do In Order To Make It To The Superbowl


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I used to be a Harry Douglass fan but no more, I've seen him come up short on more than one occasion. I'd rather put in Palmer instead.

Hear my reasoning. Most defenses put in a two high safety to guard against Roddy/Jones/Gonzalez. Using math, that only leaves Six to guard against the run. Now if you add Palmer who excels at Blocking, we should be able to EASILY run the ball, even with Turner. Add the hurry up offense and a varying snap count should stop the def from pulling up one of the safety's in time for 3 downs.

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rather than debate whether HD has made enough clutch catches or not, the real premise of the OP valid for the following reason:

What's more likely to get the Falcons to the SB - a better running game or plays made by the 4th receiving option? The answer is most certainly the former. Being able to run the ball to set up play action early and close out games with the lead late would be a crucial component of the offense.

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rather than debate whether HD has made enough clutch catches or not, the real premise of the OP valid for the following reason:

What's more likely to get the Falcons to the SB - a better running game or plays made by the 4th receiving option? The answer is most certainly the former. Being able to run the ball to set up play action early and close out games with the lead late would be a crucial component of the offense.

saying that hd has come up short way too many times this season is a complete lie and anyone that has watched the games and not check the stats sheet knows it. Keep it real now kap
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You've seen hd come up short to much. What tha **** have you been watching all year. He has as many game clinching/clutch catches as Gonzo this year. You must still be feeling the effects of the alcohol you took in last night

TG has moved the chains in crucial situations in every game this year. HD has done it in a handful of games. I like HD, and I think he is improving with getting open lately, but there has been times when he does not block well, and has not gotten separation. He has improved though.

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rather than debate whether HD has made enough clutch catches or not, the real premise of the OP valid for the following reason:

What's more likely to get the Falcons to the SB - a better running game or plays made by the 4th receiving option? The answer is most certainly the former. Being able to run the ball to set up play action early and close out games with the lead late would be a crucial component of the offense.

You say that, but it's not really based in any fact whatsoever. Our success this year has not hinged on the running game, it has been MR and the passing game. You throw HD on the field, and you instantly take away a DB from covering Julio, White, or Gonzo. And when you do that, you can use any of the others as a decoy. Look at the TD in Philly when 3 DBs followed Julio.

Edited by Optimus*Crimes
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saying that hd has come up short way too many times this season is a complete lie and anyone that has watched the games and not check the stats sheet knows it. Keep it real now kap

No, i wasn't saying that at all. i was just arguing that a running game was more important to the Falcons' playoff chances than the 3rd WR.

as for HD, my take on him is this: he is the forgotten man in the passing game. With two elite WRs, the best TE of all time, and a screen-game that is key to keeping the pass rush somewhat hesitant, it's difficult to find opportunities for the 3rd WR. i don't think HD stinks or has come up short. i just think ANY 3rd WR on a team with this many receiving threats would need to have some all-world skill (like top-shelf speed or Gonzo-like hands) in order to draw any attention from the QB.

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TG has moved the chains in crucial situations in every game this year. HD has done it in a handful of games. I like HD, and I think he is improving with getting open lately, but there has been times when he does not block well, and has not gotten separation. He has improved though.

the problem is, imo, the plays designed for him are very, very predictable, particularly the bubble screen which has led to a few interceptions. I won't even talk about the obvious toss with a 5 wide set and he goes in motion. Outside of that, anytime we have needed a late first down to seal the game or get us in field goal position he is ahead of roddy and julio and right behind gonzo.
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You say that, but it's not really based in any fact whatsoever. Are success this year has not hinged on the running game, it has been MR and the passing game. You throw HD on the field, and you instantly take away a DB from covering Julio, White, or Gonzo. And when you do that, you can use any of the others as a decoy. Look at the TD in Philly when 3 DBs followed Julio.

Oh, i wouldn't be so bold as to say "based in any fact whatsoever" - that's a bit of an exaggeration. Keep in mind, i posted several times this season and as late as last week that Yasinkas-style criticisms that the Falcons should run the ball more are silly and i explicitly suggested they were better off using the pass to set up the run. But as i noted in this thread, ATL has two elite WRs and the best TE of all time. The difference in their passing game by throwing to the 3rd WR and 4th receiving option won't be as valuable as being able to run the ball late in games to close out leads.

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No, i wasn't saying that at all. i was just arguing that a running game was more important to the Falcons' playoff chances than the 3rd WR.

as for HD, my take on him is this: he is the forgotten man in the passing game. With two elite WRs, the best TE of all time, and a screen-game that is key to keeping the pass rush somewhat hesitant, it's difficult to find opportunities for the 3rd WR. i don't think HD stinks or has come up short. i just think ANY 3rd WR on a team with this many receiving threats would need to have some all-world skill (like top-shelf speed or Gonzo-like hands) in order to draw any attention from the QB.

It's on dirk to come up with better plays for hd. There have been times where he was wide open and not thrown to, but yet when he's covered like white on rice, Matt throws it his way. Every time they come out in a 3 wr bunch, you see HD lined up inside, that's a hubble screen 97 percent of the time. Dirk has to find a way to use him better.
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Oh, i wouldn't be so bold as to say "based in any fact whatsoever" - that's a bit of an exaggeration. Keep in mind, i posted several times this season and as late as last week that Yasinkas-style criticisms that the Falcons should run the ball more are silly and i explicitly suggested they were better off using the pass to set up the run. But as i noted in this thread, ATL has two elite WRs and the best TE of all time. The difference in their passing game by throwing to the 3rd WR and 4th receiving option won't be as valuable as being able to run the ball late in games to close out leads.

It is based in no fact. Name one game this year where we ran the ball exclusively in the 4th, to shut down the game. It didn't happen. Now, name a game where we threw the ball in the fourth to shut down a game. Quite a few. HD83 has been more important than you're giving him credit for. Has he had a ton of receptions? Nope, but he has grabbed a few pretty clutch grabs. The most important thing is that he draws coverage from someone else. If you can get Julio or Roddy on a one-on-one, isn't that more important than having a stout running game? And for the record, I'm still on the Turner train. Our running game has gotten a ton of hate this year, but it didn't come from me.

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It is based in no fact. Name one game this year where we ran the ball exclusively in the 4th, to shut down the game. It didn't happen.

i'm not sure what you're arguing against. What has happened so far this year in no way refutes a normative claim about what needs to happen in the playoffs. The easiest response to what you've posted would be to say - "yes, you're correct, the Falcons haven't been able to close out games by running the ball, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't look for ways to be able to."

Like i've now posted multiple times, i'm in agreement that this Offense is built around its passing game. Where i differ from you and others in this thread is i don't think the 3rd WR and 4th receiving option is the key to that passing game. If you give me the option of the Falcons having solid running game they could count on (which they currently don't; at its best, it has simply served this season to keep the D honest) OR a 3rd WR who's being targeted more often or made a bigger part of the passing game, i'll take the former every time. That's hardly a controversial idea in football.

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HD's stats,

38 receptions, 59 targets, 1TD 1 Fumble

Roddy White with more drops than any of the last three yrs.

92 recps, 143 targets, 7TD's, 1 Fumble

Julio

79 receps, 129 targets, 10 Td's no Fumbles.

Would I trade 2 plus receptions a game for a more balanced team, better running game?

6 receptions, 1 TD no Fumbles for Palmer.

Doesn't seem to me that HD's having this "break out" yr.

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HD's stats,

38 receptions, 59 targets, 1TD 1 Fumble

Roddy White with more drops than any of the last three yrs.

92 recps, 143 targets, 7TD's, 1 Fumble

Julio

79 receps, 129 targets, 10 Td's no Fumbles.

Would I trade 2 plus receptions a game for a more balanced team, better running game?

6 receptions, 1 TD no Fumbles for Palmer.

Doesn't seem to me that HD's having this "break out" yr.

stats are the only thing you are going off of instead of actually game play.
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It is based in no fact. Name one game this year where we ran the ball exclusively in the 4th, to shut down the game. It didn't happen. Now, name a game where we threw the ball in the fourth to shut down a game. Quite a few. HD83 has been more important than you're giving him credit for. Has he had a ton of receptions? Nope, but he has grabbed a few pretty clutch grabs. The most important thing is that he draws coverage from someone else. If you can get Julio or Roddy on a one-on-one, isn't that more important than having a stout running game? And for the record, I'm still on the Turner train. Our running game has gotten a ton of hate this year, but it didn't come from me.

I respect your argument, more than any other against the logic but forcing one of the safeties down in the box or having better play-action would actually help Roddy and Gonzalez AND when they have two high safeties, it will help the running game also.

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I've been saying this over and over again but its what I feel is true .... We will never win a big game in the playoffs against a team with a championship proven head coach because that's what this team doesn't have .... Until Mr. Blank and TD comes to this realization , we will continue to just be another team that can't get over the hump ...

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i'm not sure what you're arguing against. What has happened so far this year in no way refutes a normative claim about what needs to happen in the playoffs. The easiest response to what you've posted would be to say - "yes, you're correct, the Falcons haven't been able to close out games by running the ball, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't look for ways to be able to."

Like i've now posted multiple times, i'm in agreement that this Offense is built around its passing game. Where i differ from you and others in this thread is i don't think the 3rd WR and 4th receiving option is the key to that passing game. If you give me the option of the Falcons having solid running game they could count on (which they currently don't; at its best, it has simply served this season to keep the D honest) OR a 3rd WR who's being targeted more often or made a bigger part of the passing game, i'll take the former every time. That's hardly a controversial idea in football.

I'm not disagreeing that the standard is to run the ball to force the D to stack the box. Where we disagree is that it hasn't worked for us this year, while running multiple WR sets has. And by adding HD, you remove a man from covering either Julio and Roddy, our 2 biggest threats. Like I said, I'm all for establishing a running game, but the fact is, it hasn't happened, and there really is no point in shying away from what got us 13 wins. Like Roddy said, pick your poison. Either way, you're gonna die.

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