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On The Falcons Board, Wins Are A Qb Stat. Do You Think Wins Are A Team Stat Or A Qb Stat?


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Both.

Football is a team game, but the QB is the most important player and thus usually deserves the bulk of the credit or blame for W/L.

Bingo. Its just like pitchers in baseball. If your players cant field the ball then it won't really matter who your pitcher is (similar to brees' situation now and pre-2009), but there's no doubt having an elite qb or an ace will better your chance to win because the ball is in their hands.

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Bingo. Its just like pitchers in baseball. If your players cant field the ball then it won't really matter who your pitcher is (similar to brees' situation now and pre-2009), but there's no doubt having an elite qb or an ace will better your chance to win because the ball is in their hands.

WELL SAID BOSS. JUST LIKE BASEBALL, THE QB JUST LIKE THE PITCHER,

IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WINNING OR LOSING. BUT JUST AS IN

BASEBALL, THE REAL NFL FAN KNOWS THAT THE QB DIDN'T DO IT ALL ALONE.

THE BALL IS IN THE PITCHERS HAND, AND THE BALL IS IN THE QB's HAND.

WHAT THEY BOTH DO WITH IT, IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A WIN OR

A LOSS.

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So we need to discuss what TATF thinks? Not even a topic, just a header.

Being 6-0 must be hard to start Ryan drama these days up there. Im not biting.

THESE GUYS HAVE TO CREATE THEIR OWN "RYAN DRAMA."

AND BEING 6-0 MAKES IT EXTREAMLY DIFFICULT. BUT

STILL ..... THEY TRY.

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Bingo. Its just like pitchers in baseball. If your players cant field the ball then it won't really matter who your pitcher is (similar to brees' situation now and pre-2009), but there's no doubt having an elite qb or an ace will better your chance to win because the ball is in their hands.

I like this analogy.

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Depends on the Team

this is true

nobody rushed to give Dilfer credit for the Ravens SB run (rightfully so).each team situation is different. San Francisco had a great season last year but nobody was going to credit Smith...the only thing he did was not turn the ball over too much.

In the case of the Falcons, both deserve credit. Ryan (other than this past game) and the entire team are playing well for the most part and when the 'team' isn't, enough players step up at the right time to carry the rest.

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also on the flip side of that, look at the mid 2000s Pats and Colts

most those wins are all Brady and Manning

not only did they not have a Run Game to speak of, but the WRs were not world beaters after manning lost harrison..

Guys Like Ryan have alot of Help

Maybe Ryan is not as good as we think he is

but he looks Elite because of the Talent around him

but hey no1 works harder than M Ryan

and I believe atleast some of our wins are a direct result of his play

esp in the final mins...

so yea thats the mark of a special guy IMO

I assume we are talking about Ryan and Flacco Here

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Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl. Did he win it for the Ravens or do just enough so that he didnt cause them to lose.

The answer is in that statement.

TRENT DILFER WAS EXACTLY WHAT THE RAVENS NEEDED, FOR

THAT PARTICULAR RAVENS TEAM, AND THAT PARTICULAR

SEASON. MY QUESTION IS, "COULD THE RAVENS HAVE WON

IT WITHOUT TRENT DILFER? MY GUESS IS ...... NOT!"

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TRENT DILFER WAS EXACTLY WHAT THE RAVENS NEEDED, FOR

THAT PARTICULAR RAVENS TEAM, AND THAT PARTICULAR

SEASON. MY QUESTION IS, "COULD THE RAVENS HAVE WON

IT WITHOUT TRENT DILFER? MY GUESS IS ...... NOT!"

That was my point though. He didnt win it for them, but he didnt lose it for them. He played his role. You win and lose as a team. All an individual can do is play their role. Every pass must be caught or the QB wont be able to do anything. Running lanes must be open or the RB cant do anything. There must be pressure up front on defense or the secondary will suffer. No one man can do it alone.

NO...ONE...MAN...CAN...DO...IT...ALONE.

Wanted to make that clear. That includes Romo, Tebow, Dilfer, Ryan, Brees, Freeman, Eli, Rodgers, etc.

Edited by Rave
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That was my point though. He didnt win it for them, but he didnt lose it for them. He played his role. You win and lose as a team. All an individual can do is play their role. Every pass must be caught or the QB wont be able to do anything. Running lanes must be open or the RB cant do anything. There must be pressure up front on defense or the secondary will suffer. No one man can do it alone.

NO...ONE...MAN...CAN...DO...IT...ALONE.

Wanted to make that clear. That includes Romo, Tebow, Dilfer, Ryan, Brees, Freeman, Eli, Rodgers, etc.

MOST FOOTBALL MINDS KNOW THIS, AND THERE ARE THOSE WHO

SAY JUST THE OPPOSITE ..... THEY KNOW IT TOO.

"NO MAN IS AN ISLAND." NO MAN STANDS ALONE.

TAKE THAT TO THE BANK!

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I think it depends on when the question is being asked.

If its during the game or season, its usually the QB who gets the win.

You view the conclusion of wins and losses in the immediate based on adjustments can be made.

After the season, I think it turns more toward the Head Coach and front office as that becomes the instrument of "immediacy".

And over history, the team gets credit for wins and losses as you are able to step away and review accomplishment and failure as a whole.

Thats why there is a waiting period for the Hall of Fame and while great individuals are honored, the leaning goes to great teams and the individuals who made them great.

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Grantland had a very good article on this. They measured the likelihood of a victory against the amount of points scored by the opposition, and then saw how many wins above or below average some quarterbacks were worth. It's flawed, but over a big enough sample size it can give some insight into this kind of discussion.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8434708/the-numbers-never-lie-ravens-fueled-their-defense

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OP thinks wins are a team stat when discussing Cam's record, then focuses almost exclusively on Ryan's play in the playoff losses.

He also believes that, because Ryan has an ugly [to him] wife, he'll never be an elite QB and that every pass that Ryan completes over 20 yards is luck. [posts where he claimed that available upon request].

I think he might have an ulterior motive for this thread.

There's a reason QBs are the only players to have won/loss records attached to their names. If there are 150 plays in an average game, 20 are special teams, 60 each offense and defense. Only one player has his hands on the ball every single snap of that 60- the QB.

Last night's game is a perfect example of how a QB can win a game, or lose one.

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OP thinks wins are a team stat when discussing Cam's record, then focuses almost exclusively on Ryan's play in the playoff losses.

He also believes that, because Ryan has an ugly [to him] wife, he'll never be an elite QB and that every pass that Ryan completes over 20 yards is luck. [posts where he claimed that available upon request].

I think he might have an ulterior motive for this thread.

There's a reason QBs are the only players to have won/loss records attached to their names. If there are 150 plays in an average game, 20 are special teams, 60 each offense and defense. Only one player has his hands on the ball every single snap of that 60- the QB.

Last night's game is a perfect example of how a QB can win a game, or lose one.

nice....
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