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paul n coke

Interesting Quote From Mercedes Lewis

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Let me get this correct. If you trade up to get a WR, that means confidence in the OC. But if a HC trades up to get a QB, he is absolved of any lack of development especially when he happens to be a OC by trade? We are debating MMs personnel skills because they are not revolved around maximizing the talent of personnel

You're confusing the choosing of talent with the getting the best out of talent. They are distinctive.

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You have never been known to be above insults so no hard feelings since this is your form of communication.

Please further explain because you first said his offense was built for Kordell Stewart.

Ryan has a weak arm. The plays were called, the WR's were open, the ball wasn't delivered in a timely sequence. Which is the reason why posters harp over Matt Ryan's arm. Look at the deep ball numbers over the last 4 years. The numbers do not lie.

Yea, he missed some wide open players. I've watched almost every game the passed couple of weeks. Most of Ryan's chances deep is only 1 WR. In the Saints game, every chance deep was either with 1 route to the field or both routes to the sideline. How is Ryan supposed to go deep when only 2 WRs run routes (deep corners) and the only other route is Michael Turner in the flats?

Ryan doesn't have a weak arm but thanks for your MO. Don't bother responding.

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I knew he had to go when, after we drafted Julio all he was quoted as saying was how excited he was about his blocking ability.....

WTH?

That's like getting married to Scarlett Johansson and bragging to your pals that she sews one helluva sock.

Grits wins with sock comment.

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When HD, Quizz, Meier, Snelling and even Cone contribute more to the offense, you'll have your answer.

HD was a 1000 yard WR at Louisville. Meier had 97 catches his last year at Kansas. Quizz was a playmaker at OSU. There was talent that was not used.

Vel I love your optimism, but on a team with Roddy White, Gonzo, Turner and JJ, there simply aren't enough good living's to go around.

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But u just said the key word. Timely. Ryan is a timing and rhythm qb like Peyton Manning. The lockout caused him to not get in sequence with JJ's speed. He hit Roddy deep last year. He missed Julio because he was faster than Matt thought. Hence the under throws. But as the year went on he started connecting with Julio as he started getting more timing. Had nothing to do with arm strength per se

Manning in his prime had superior talent to Ryan. Ryan is a timing based QB though, I agree. Most of his deep balls have no direction, he just chucks it in hopes it lands around where the player is located. Look at Rodgers, Manning, and even guys like Cutler and they guide the ball even on deep throws. Ryan doesn't. That's another issue I have with Ryan's deep ball.

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Yea, he missed some wide open players. I've watched almost every game the passed couple of weeks. Most of Ryan's chances deep is only 1 WR. In the Saints game, every chance deep was either with 1 route to the field or both routes to the sideline. How is Ryan supposed to go deep when only 2 WRs run routes (deep corners) and the only other route is Michael Turner in the flats?

Ryan doesn't have a weak arm but thanks for your MO. Don't bother responding.

The Saints don't get as many deep ball chances as you are making it out to be. They just capitalize on their chances, we don't. We run more routes than the deep corner as well and he have ran 3WR and went deep a lot more than you are giving it credit for.

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Right. Started this thread a few hours ago and getting a good kick out of it just being a good football debate. I know most on this board want nothing but to see our team do go things on the football field

Yea they do. Every now and then trolls pop up but for the most part good ol football talk. And for the record Muskokas, Swift and a couple others are not trolls. I like some of the points they bring up and they bring up good points. I just love football debates because I love football. Lol I just look at it as my dads Falcons vs the sons Falcons. Grumpy older guys that's been waiting for a Lombardi vs younger guys who don't remember every single last year of Falcon existence lol

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Vel I love your optimism, but on a team with Roddy White, Gonzo, Turner and JJ, there simply aren't enough good living's to go around.

The 2000 Rams had Isaac Bruce, Marshall Faulk (who had 81 receptions, 60 more than Turner) Torry Holt ect yet they were able to find a way to get Az-Hazir Hakim 700+ yards and 4 TDs and Rickey Prohel 450 yards and 4 TDs.

How ever did they do it?

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The 2000 Rams had Isaac Bruce, Marshall Faulk (who had 81 receptions, 60 more than Turner) Torry Holt ect yet they were able to find a way to get Az-Hazir Hakim 700+ yards and 4 TDs and Rickey Prohel 450 yards and 4 TDs.

How ever did they do it?

Kurt Warner

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Numbers say the offense was balanced, I didn't say they had a great offense, just balanced. RIF.

Pointless claim, no offensive linemen is terrible either. Sam Baker isn't terrible. Don't be a jackass, we are talking in perspectives not scouting language.

Numbers don't mean ****, that was a run first team. Logic and football knowledge say that a team that is behind tends to pass more to get back in the game. That was not a balanced offense by any means. It was a running team that couldn't score and would start to get desperate and pass on every down once they fell behind. Passing was not their philosophy so their attempts at a comeback were always unsuccessful. Remind you of anyone?

As for Sam baker, he wouldn't look as bad if our idiot Oc didn't leave him on an island all the **** time.

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Numbers don't mean ****, that was a run first team. Logic and football knowledge say that a team that is behind tends to pass more to get back in the game. That was not a balanced offense by any means. It was a running team that couldn't score and would start to get desperate and pass on every down once they fell behind. Passing was not their philosophy so their attempts at a comeback were always unsuccessful. Remind you of anyone?

As for Sam baker, he wouldn't look as bad if our idiot Oc didn't leave him on an island all the **** time.

When I watched it was run first but I said going by the numbers hence RIF.

By your logic on Losman, Baker or any OL isn't terrible. You are getting on my nerves. You aren't even consistent. You just want to talk crap to talk crap.

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When I watched it was run first but I said going by the numbers hence RIF.

By your logic on Losman, Baker or any OL isn't terrible. You are getting on my nerves. You aren't even consistent. You just want to talk crap to talk crap.

Coming from the guy that pops in any and every Ryan thread to say something about his arm? That is classic.

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Coming from the guy that pops in any and every Ryan thread to say something about his arm? That is classic.

That's cute, I bet Matt is proud of you for being his personal internet defender and hugger.

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Manning in his prime had superior talent to Ryan. Ryan is a timing based QB though, I agree. Most of his deep balls have no direction, he just chucks it in hopes it lands around where the player is located. Look at Rodgers, Manning, and even guys like Cutler and they guide the ball even on deep throws. Ryan doesn't. That's another issue I have with Ryan's deep ball.

They all had that problem when they got into the NFL. Manning didn't hit his prime until he was about uhhhh...Ryans age now. I'd say Matt is right on pace with any other good/great qb. Manning is definitely a timing and rhythm qb. That's what he and Marvin always talked about. They stayed extra in practice to work on things like Matt and Roddy did and now Julio. Everything you mention about Matt can be fixed in Mechanics. This is his 3rd qb coach since he's been in the league. And I really didn't like Brat cause I thought Matts mechanics kinda took a step back. And he definitely doesn't chunk the ball and hope it lands by the player. Guys like that don't make it to the NFL. A deep pass is like a 3 pointer in the NBA. It's a low percentage pass but if u pull up all the top qb's deep throw percentages Matts is right on par with there's so again I know personally you don't like Matt but arm strength isn't what wins SB's. Brees doesn't have a big arm but he plays in a great system that Sean Payton installed and calls plays in and was a qb himself. Brady doesn't have the greatest arm either. I think the one stat that most Ryan detractors fail to mention is yac. All the qb's that give guys hard ons get a lot of yac from their systems design which inflates the qb's yards. It's not about 50 yard bombs all the time. Pull up the yac of those teams and compare then to ours.

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When I watched it was run first but I said going by the numbers hence RIF.

By your logic on Losman, Baker or any OL isn't terrible. You are getting on my nerves. You aren't even consistent. You just want to talk crap to talk crap.

Don't know what RIF is. What part don't you get? I'm saying that all players have talent and it's the Oc's job to maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. You don't have Chad Pennington throwing 60 yard bombs and you don't make the receiver that runs 4.8 run 9 routes all day. That is equivalent to letting Sam Baker go one on one with speed rushers like Trent Cole.

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The 2000 Rams had Isaac Bruce, Marshall Faulk (who had 81 receptions, 60 more than Turner) Torry Holt ect yet they were able to find a way to get Az-Hazir Hakim 700+ yards and 4 TDs and Rickey Prohel 450 yards and 4 TDs.

How ever did they do it?

Spread formations and hitting the playmakers in space. Warner also took a beating in the spread system but it got the job done. Cutter got killed in it because he simply didn't have the receivers.

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Vel I love your optimism, but on a team with Roddy White, Gonzo, Turner and JJ, there simply aren't enough good living's to go around.

There really is. That's the problem. 75% of our offense went through those 4 players. Definitely too much. Roddy, Julio and Tony had 230 catches. Turner had 300 carries. That's too much flowing through 4 players. Period.

Roddy should never see 100 catches again. Tony should never see 80 catches again. Turner will never 300 carries gain. Who does that go to? Quizz, HD, Meier, Snelling.

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The 2000 Rams had Isaac Bruce, Marshall Faulk (who had 81 receptions, 60 more than Turner) Torry Holt ect yet they were able to find a way to get Az-Hazir Hakim 700+ yards and 4 TDs and Rickey Prohel 450 yards and 4 TDs.

How ever did they do it?

So you think Dirk Koetter is gonna channel his inner Mike Martz.?

So far in this thread, you tried to paint Mike Mularkey as a GM and compared the 2012 Falcons to the Greatest Show on Turf. You're a regular rubber-band man.

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They all had that problem when they got into the NFL. Manning didn't hit his prime until he was about uhhhh...Ryans age now. I'd say Matt is right on pace with any other good/great qb. Manning is definitely a timing and rhythm qb. That's what he and Marvin always talked about. They stayed extra in practice to work on things like Matt and Roddy did and now Julio. Everything you mention about Matt can be fixed in Mechanics. This is his 3rd qb coach since he's been in the league. And I really didn't like Brat cause I thought Matts mechanics kinda took a step back. And he definitely doesn't chunk the ball and hope it lands by the player. Guys like that don't make it to the NFL. A deep pass is like a 3 pointer in the NBA. It's a low percentage pass but if u pull up all the top qb's deep throw percentages Matts is right on par with there's so again I know personally you don't like Matt but arm strength isn't what wins SB's. Brees doesn't have a big arm but he plays in a great system that Sean Payton installed and calls plays in and was a qb himself. Brady doesn't have the greatest arm either. I think the one stat that most Ryan detractors fail to mention is yac. All the qb's that give guys hard ons get a lot of yac from their systems design which inflates the qb's yards. It's not about 50 yard bombs all the time. Pull up the yac of those teams and compare then to ours.

I hope so, I hope so. I will be cheering for him to improve but I am completely a pessimist now.

The deep ball is nothing like the 3pt shot. I played college ball, it's nothing like a 3pt shot.

Practice doesn't make perfect, you must have the tools for starters.

I don't know if he can improve on his pocket mobility, velocity, ability to throw on the run, and what not. I think he will be more confidence with the muscle.

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Don't know what RIF is. What part don't you get? I'm saying that all players have talent and it's the Oc's job to maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. You don't have Chad Pennington throwing 60 yard bombs and you don't make the receiver that runs 4.8 run 9 routes all day. That is equivalent to letting Sam Baker go one on one with speed rushers like Trent Cole.

I agree 100%

reading_is_fundamental.jpg

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There really is. That's the problem. 75% of our offense went through those 4 players. Definitely too much. Roddy, Julio and Tony had 230 catches. Turner had 300 carries. That's too much flowing through 4 players. Period.

Roddy should never see 100 catches again. Tony should never see 80 catches again. Turner will never 300 carries gain. Who does that go to? Quizz, HD, Meier, Snelling.

It is too much, but assuming a jump for Julio Jones, do you really see Kerry Meier taking 20 off Roddy White?(and I know you are high on Meier....we've been through that) I think while you may find the routes and personnel packages different, I don't think they'll be radically different.

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There really is. That's the problem. 75% of our offense went through those 4 players. Definitely too much. Roddy, Julio and Tony had 230 catches. Turner had 300 carries. That's too much flowing through 4 players. Period.

Roddy should never see 100 catches again. Tony should never see 80 catches again. Turner will never 300 carries gain. Who does that go to? Quizz, HD, Meier, Snelling.

It has to flow throught those guys given how much we spent on them. Gonzalez 8M. Julio 5 draft picks, etc...

If we wanted to spread the ball around, we wouldn't need future HOFers at every position.

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Spread formations and hitting the playmakers in space. Warner also took a beating in the spread system but it got the job done. Cutter got killed in it because he simply didn't have the receivers.

Warner pocket mobility is one of the best of all time as well. People forget but that's one of the most key traits a pocket QB needs is pocket mobility. That's what separates the Brady's and Manning's from Bledsoe's and Ryan's.

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It is too much, but assuming a jump for Julio Jones, do you really see Kerry Meier taking 20 off Roddy White?(and I know you are high on Meier....we've been through that) I think while you may find the routes and personnel packages different, I don't think they'll be radically different.

Our FO's philosphy is not to spread the ball around to a bunch of decent-good guys, but to force it to a few great guys. Otherwise, why draft Julio when you can draft Baldwin. You won't get Julio's talent, but you don't need his talent if you are only going to give him maybe 50 catches a season.

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