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Falconsfan567

Nfl Shows Reporters Proof Of Saints Suspensions

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Well I wouldn't want you as my lawyer then lol. Not that I liked the lawyers I had.

:)

Well I wouldn't want you as my lawyer then lol. Not that I liked the lawyers I had.

:)

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Just saw NFL Films video on NFL Live of the 2009 NFCCG of Joe Vitt telling the Saints players that Favre had been knocked out of the game with a leg injury. Vitt "I think Favre broke his leg." Anthony Hargrove "Bobby, Give me my money".

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They broke the rules they pay for it, I feel no sympathy for them. The CBA was negotiated last year and the players agreed and signed it. Again no sympathy.

Just because Goodell has not come over to each of our houses and given us a 5 hr presentation on evidence doesn't mean he doesn't have a ton of evidence. Everything we have heard says he has mountains of evidence and he has presented it to players and other officials.

Their really isn't any more to discuss other than guilty parties whining about their punishment.

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Big dif! The stickered helmets were a bragging right for executing a perfect play. The bounty program was a scheme to financially reward a participant for knocking an opponent out of the game. Big dif!

Also it goes around the salary cap which in a league setup for salary parody is just down right cheating.

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I know several of our Falcon fans have stopped getting involved in arguing with the trolls over the guilt or innocence of the STAINS. I still enjoy hassling them. What goes around comes around and I think that the word KARMA might get them to thinking (if they're capable) that there is such a thing.

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I know several of our Falcon fans have stopped getting involved in arguing with the trolls over the guilt or innocence of the STAINS. I still enjoy hassling them. What goes around comes around and I think that the word KARMA might get them to thinking (if they're capable) that there is such a thing.

I think it is fine to harass them, but at this point it is pretty much as open and shut case as you will ever have in something like this.

I just do not see where this sympathy is coming from or any attempts at denial. There is simply nothing that can be said to justify or un do what they did.

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I think it is fine to harass them, but at this point it is pretty much as open and shut case as you will ever have in something like this.

I just do not see where this sympathy is coming from or any attempts at denial. There is simply nothing that can be said to justify or un do what they did.

I think the discussion to be had is why 4 Saints players got such harsh penalties and most of them got no penalties. Every single player on the defense participated in the pay for performance program.

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If the Falcons were to lose to a team of replacement players than I would crawl under a rock and never show my face again.

Assuming Brees gets into camp...it's only gonna be a few different players in there for them. Don't Fujita and Hargrove already play on different teams? Sean Payton will be the biggest loss.

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I think the discussion to be had is why 4 Saints players got such harsh penalties and most of them got no penalties. Every single player on the defense participated in the pay for performance program.

Pretty sure the others cooperated with the NFL's investigation. There were 22-27 players mentioned in the original report. Bet the other 20 or so confessed, were given immunity/suspended sentences and a promise to keep their names out of the public eye.

Two got suspended for 3-4 games, not unusual punishment. Hargrove got 8 for lying.

Vilma was getting nailed. If the NFL does indeed have evidence that Vilma helped instigate the program and contributed large sums of money to the bounty program, which is what they claim; then Vilma is guilty as he## and deserves a year.

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I think the discussion to be had is why 4 Saints players got such harsh penalties and most of them got no penalties. Every single player on the defense participated in the pay for performance program.

Maybe Goodell did not want to nuke the entire team for the year, maybe he picked out the 4 worst offenders. Either way it seems given the evidence Goodell could have literally terminated the Saints for 2012 and instead gave them mercy.

So I think the Saints should consider themselves lucky and not be trying for sympathy.

In the end it doesn't really matter, the players singed the CBA last year, this type of thing was allowed in the CBA, tough crap players needs to deal with it. Instead of whining like a girl Vilma should be angry at himself for not trying to stop this program. Cry me a river of tears for him.

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Assuming Brees gets into camp...it's only gonna be a few different players in there for them. Don't Fujita and Hargrove already play on different teams? Sean Payton will be the biggest loss.

Someone mentioned that the Saints go off lightly and that the entire team should have been suspended and they should have to field a team of replacement players. That is where that comment came from.

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Even Peter King changed his tune about the evidence after he had some time to absorb it:

http://sportsillustr...ated/index.html

If part of the evidence they haven't shown yet is confessions from Williams and Vitt, which is what they claim; then they have everything they need.

Will agree that everything seen so far is circumstantial, but if they have those 2 confessions, then all the evidence fits together.

Boils down as to who you think is lying.

I wonder why, for example, why the Saints organization apologized for bounties if they didn't occur.

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Even Peter King changed his tune about the evidence after he had some time to absorb it:

http://sportsillustr...ated/index.html

He also predicted we'd win the superbowl last season. Goes to show that one man's opinion doesn't mean squat. I listened to him and all he said was he didn't think there was enough to be so severe on some of the heavy suspensions. It's a moot point this stage of the game. Let's move on and quit cying the blues for the Stains. He did reconfirmed my earlier posts that the players union signed off on giving Goodell all that power. Change that next contract time if Goodell outstepped his bounds. The majority of football fans don't think so including some right there in New Orleans.

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If part of the evidence they haven't shown yet is confessions from Williams and Vitt, which is what they claim; then they have everything they need.

Will agree that everything seen so far is circumstantial, but if they have those 2 confessions, then all the evidence fits together.

Boils down as to who you think is lying.

I wonder why, for example, why the Saints organization apologized for bounties if they didn't occur.

If they have signed statements from Williams and Vitt, I don't understand why that would not have been included. The NFL told Adam Schefter that the information presented was all of the information used to discipline the players.

My statements that the NFL has "lied" maybe a little harsh, but I think they have greatly exaggerated what went on.

As much as I've talked about being sympathetic to Vilma, I also feel bad for Fujita. Even in his article King wrote saying the evidence was "overwhelming", he said the NFL presented no evidence that Fujita had contribnuted money to an injury bounty.

So I think he got a pretty raw deal there too.

He also predicted we'd win the superbowl last season. Goes to show that one man's opinion doesn't mean squat. I listened to him and all he said was he didn't think there was enough to be so severe on some of the heavy suspensions. It's a moot point this stage of the game. Let's move on and quit cying the blues for the Stains. He did reconfirmed my earlier posts that the players union signed off on giving Goodell all that power. Change that next contract time if Goodell outstepped his bounds. The majority of football fans don't think so including some right there in New Orleans.

If you want to move on, move on, nobody is forcing you to post in this thread.

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If they have signed statements from Williams and Vitt, I don't understand why that would not have been included. The NFL told Adam Schefter that the information presented was all of the information used to discipline the players.

My statements that the NFL has "lied" maybe a little harsh, but I think they have greatly exaggerated what went on.

As much as I've talked about being sympathetic to Vilma, I also feel bad for Fujita. Even in his article King wrote saying the evidence was "overwhelming", he said the NFL presented no evidence that Fujita had contribnuted money to an injury bounty.

So I think he got a pretty raw deal there too.

Think Schefter must be mistaken.

Didn't include the statements because of what else would be revealed. If Vilma is getting a full year because Vitt testified against him, think that might make the locker room a little tense?

If Williams listed all the players that were guilty and only the 4 are punished, going to be really obvious that the others turned "states evidence", that would also make for a tense locker room.

Same reason we're not probably not going to see the full ledger book- just individual pages.

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Think Schefter must be mistaken.

Didn't include the statements because of what else would be revealed. If Vilma is getting a full year because Vitt testified against him, think that might make the locker room a little tense?

If Williams listed all the players that were guilty and only the 4 are punished, going to be really obvious that the others turned "states evidence", that would also make for a tense locker room.

Same reason we're not probably not going to see the full ledger book- just individual pages.

You make an interesting point that also raises a red flag with me.

The NFL claims that 3 sources have confirmed the Vilma story with the $10,000. Certainly they would have asked the other 20 defensive players that were in that locker room about the alleged incident. If they all lied and said it didn't happen, I wonder why none of them were punished.

The other thing is.....I can't imagine why the NFL would care if the Saints have a tense locker room.

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I just listened to an interview with Adam Schefter, who was one of the 12 press personnel who got the presentation from the league yesterday. He says a lot of things that are very interesting to me, including the fact that he doesn't think this evidence in any way proves that the Saints were paying players to injure other players.

But....the most interesting thing he says.....he says that he asked the NFL directly if they had more evidence, and the NFL told him that this represents ALL of the evidence used to punish the players.

WOW. Can't believe that. That's unreal.

Here is a link for anyone interested. http://espn.go.com/e...play?id=8070934

This is not entirely accurate. He even admitted himself (scheffter) that clearly there could be more evidence.

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You make an interesting point that also raises a red flag with me.

The NFL claims that 3 sources have confirmed the Vilma story with the $10,000. Certainly they would have asked the other 20 defensive players that were in that locker room about the alleged incident. If they all lied and said it didn't happen, I wonder why none of them were punished.

The other thing is.....I can't imagine why the NFL would care if the Saints have a tense locker room.

Goodell wants to punish the Saints, but allow them to be a competitive team. That's why Loomis was suspended after his busy season.

Only thing that makes sense to me is that the "multiple independent sources" are Saints defensive players and the NFL promised them that if they confessed, they keep their names quiet.

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My statements that the NFL has "lied" maybe a little harsh, but I think they have greatly exaggerated what went on.

As much as I've talked about being sympathetic to Vilma, I also feel bad for Fujita. Even in his article King wrote saying the evidence was "overwhelming", he said the NFL presented no evidence that Fujita had contribnuted money. If you want to move on, move on, nobody is forcing you to post in this thread.

Hopefully you will get your answers when Vilmas suit goes to trial. It will all have to come out then, that is if his suit doesn't thrown out for being plain idiotic.

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You make an interesting point that also raises a red flag with me.

The NFL claims that 3 sources have confirmed the Vilma story with the $10,000. Certainly they would have asked the other 20 defensive players that were in that locker room about the alleged incident. If they all lied and said it didn't happen, I wonder why none of them were punished.

The other thing is.....I can't imagine why the NFL would care if the Saints have a tense locker room.

Peyton, I understand that you are viewing this situation through the player's eyes but the NFL is not the players, they come and go. The NFL is the 32 owners and they support their chosen commissioner, Roger Goodell and they negotiated the CBA better than D Smith and the NFLPA so it's a done deal.

Why have you not heard one complaint from Saints owner Benson?

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Peyton, I understand that you are viewing this situation through the player's eyes but the NFL is not the players, they come and go. The NFL is the 32 owners and they support their chosen commissioner, Roger Goodell and they negotiated the CBA better than D Smith and the NFLPA so it's a done deal.

Why have you not heard one complaint from Saints owner Benson?

IMO probably because he is embarrassed as H*ll that the league repeatedly told the GM and coaches to stop the pay for performance program and that they didn't do it.

It's not Benson's place to fight for the players, two of which don't even play for the Saints anymore. It is the place of the NFLPA.

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The more light that's shown on the NFL's case the more flawed their case seems. Here is just one more example of the evidence the NFL presented being not what it claims.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/19390864/former-saint-heyman-backs-hargrove-in-dispute-over-bounty-evidence

It really looks like RG uncovered a pay for performance system (which has been admitted to and apologized for) and used fabricated evidence from a former disgruntled employee to twist it into a pay for injury program to make a statement.

Vitt is now offering to take a lie detector test to prove there was not a pay for injury program.

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The more light that's shown on the NFL's case the more flawed their case seems. Here is just one more example of the evidence the NFL presented being not what it claims.

http://www.cbssports...bounty-evidence

It really looks like RG uncovered a pay for performance system (which has been admitted to and apologized for) and used fabricated evidence from a former disgruntled employee to twist it into a pay for injury program to make a statement.

Vitt is now offering to take a lie detector test to prove there was not a pay for injury program.

Or, the NFL is telling the truth and they have the confessions by Williams, Vitt & Ornstein that they claim. In which case, everybody else is lying.

Why would Vitt lie about having confessed? Because if it was his testimony to the NFL that helped give Vilma a year long suspension, guess how well that plays in the locker room.

If the Williams confession includes the names of several players who weren't punished because they cooperated with the NFL, guess how well that will play in the locker room.

Lie detector is legally inadmissible as evidence.

And no Saints fan has ever given me a good explanation why the Saints organization apologized for bounties if none existed.

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