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Trayvon Martin's Killer Showed Signs Of Injury: Neighbors


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No doubt some will say the bandages are fake, the neighbors are lying, or that he punched himself to further the cover-up, but to all those denying that there were injuries, does this make any difference? Not saying this proves his case, if he attacked Martin, then Trayvon had every right to defend himself against Zimmerman, but the injuries were there, that much at least seems apparent.

http://www.reuters.c...E83F19Y20120416

(Reuters) - Neighbors of George Zimmerman say he had bandages on his nose and head the day after he shot dead Trayvon Martin, supporting statements by the neighborhood watch volunteer that he was beaten in a confrontation with the black Florida teenager.

The extent of Zimmerman's injuries could be crucial to his legal defense under Florida's "Stand Your Ground" self-defense law, which allows the use of deadly force when someone has the reasonable belief he could face death or great bodily harm.

Police said Zimmerman, who has been charged with second-degree murder in the racially charged case, was bleeding from the nose and the back of his head and was treated by medics before being taken to Sanford police station after the February 26 shooting.

But public doubts were later raised by the release of a grainy surveillance video from the police station in which no injuries were readily visible.

Zimmerman later sought medical treatment for injuries including a broken nose, his former lawyers have said.

Jorge Rodriguez, Zimmerman's next-door neighbor, told Reuters that when he saw Zimmerman the day after the incident, "he had two big, butterfly bandages on the back of his head, and another big bandage...on the bridge of his nose." He was talking to a police detective in his driveway.

Rodriguez's wife Audria also said she saw the bandages and a third neighbor, who spoke only on condition of anonymity, agreed with the Rodriguez couple's account. "I saw two bandages on the back of his head, and his nose was all swollen up," said the witness, who had watched from a nearby second-floor window.

The neighbors spoke to Reuters on Sunday and Monday, saying they felt they owed him their public support after he was charged with second-degree murder.

Zimmerman, 28, was originally released after the shooting, when Sanford police accepted his claim of self-defense. He was arrested and charged by a special prosecutor last week after demonstrations around the country at which the police were accused of failing to properly investigate the death of the black 17-year-old.

Zimmerman, who had been in hiding since shortly after the shooting, turned himself in.

Witness accounts have supported Zimmerman's story that there was some kind of fight between him and Martin. Martin was returning with candy from a convenience store to his father's fiancee's home in a gated community when Zimmerman spotted him and called to police to say the teen appeared suspicious.

Zimmerman's father and brother have said he had his nose broken and feared for his life before taking out his licensed handgun and shooting Martin dead.

The neighbors said they spoke to Sanford police and the FBI in their investigations but did not recall speaking to the office of special prosecutor Angela Corey, who charged Zimmerman with second-degree murder.

Corey's office and Sanford police declined to comment on the matter and Zimmerman's attorney Mark O'Mara did not return calls for comment.

Edited by silentbob1272
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It could have huge relevance legally, but I doubt most people can move past the idea that if Zimmerman had left Martin alone, none of this would ever have happened.

That's the point that I can't get past. I am kinda thinking that the prosecutor reached too far with Murder 2 and that decision may result in his walking altogether. She would have had a much easier go of it proving Manslaughter, but she may have some pipe bomb of damning evidence we don't know about, so who knows.

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It could have huge relevance legally, but I doubt most people can move past the idea that if Zimmerman had left Martin alone, none of this would ever have happened.

This is a valid point and my biggest concern. My only question is if and when it changed from Zimmerman doing what he never should have been doing (pursuing Martin), and Martin pursuing Zimmerman? Did Martin jump Zimmerman as he (Zim) was pursuing him? If so, then Zimmerman's got big troubles in my book. If Zimmerman broke off his pursuit and Zimmerman decided to get after him for pursuing him, then it's on Martin for being the ultimate aggressor.

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This is a valid point and my biggest concern. My only question is if and when it changed from Zimmerman doing what he never should have been doing (pursuing Martin), and Martin pursuing Zimmerman? Did Martin jump Zimmerman as he (Zim) was pursuing him? If so, then Zimmerman's got big troubles in my book. If Zimmerman broke off his pursuit and Zimmerman decided to get after him for pursuing him, then it's on Martin for being the ultimate aggressor.

I doubt we will ever know the answers to those questions.
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This is a valid point and my biggest concern. My only question is if and when it changed from Zimmerman doing what he never should have been doing (pursuing Martin), and Martin pursuing Zimmerman? Did Martin jump Zimmerman as he (Zim) was pursuing him? If so, then Zimmerman's got big troubles in my book. If Zimmerman broke off his pursuit and Zimmerman decided to get after him for pursuing him, then it's on Martin for being the ultimate aggressor.

Are you saying that if Martin turned and attacked Zimmerman while still being followed that he would have been justified in that attack? Just asking your opinion here, because I would have though that even though following Martin was stupid and wrong to do, it was not illegal so being attacked (even under these particular circumstances) would still favor Zimmerman's defense. Or am I wrong about that?

Edited by silentbob1272
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Are you saying that if Martin turned and attacked Zimmerman while still being followed that he would have been justified in that attack? Just asking your opinion here, because I would have though that even though following Martin was stupid and wrong to do, it was not illegal so being attacked (even under these particular circumstances) would still favor Zimmerman's defense. Or am I wrong about that?

Why would pursuit by a stranger not be considered a threat (or at least threatening)? I think it was stupid for Martin to aggressively initiate physical confrontation, and it cost him his life, but the question for Zimmerman is why you pursued, and that it is reasonable to assume the person you were pursuing would view you as a potential threat.

That's completely different than had Zimmerman stopped, was simply hanging out, and he got jumped by Martin. Zimmerman no longer posed a threat, and Martin then became the aggressor.

EDIT: The first paragraph is an assumed progression of events. Zimmerman could have just as likely started a physical confrontation, lost, and then ended it by using his weapon. In that scenario, there is no question about the guilt/responsibility of Zimmerman.

Edited by ATL Bear
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Question, when did Martin initiate physical confrontation? Statements from the girlfriend contradicts Zims claim (there are plenty of contradictions if you ask me, but I don't think most people are paying attention to the actual, known facts at this point).

That will be a question for the jury. If Zim did initiate the confrontation, he will most likely see prison time. I'm still surprised the prosecutor went for 2nd degree murder. It's going to hinge on their ability to prove Zim's initiation of a physical confrontation.

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Don't agree. Martin's girlfriends actual statements carries as much weight as anything Zimmerman has stated otherwise, plus, there was a woman looking out of the window (??) describing the fight in her backyard to the dispatcher, plus the 13 y/o boy, plus the other guy (??) that saw the end of the fight, and most importantly, Chris Serino, the lead investigator didn't buy Zims story that night and wanted to charge him. It will be an interesting trial regardless, but anybody that thinks Zim was a victim is simply not paying attention to the known facts that are out there right now. Who knows what else is out there.

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Question, when did Martin initiate physical confrontation? Statements from the girlfriend contradicts Zims claim (there are plenty of contradictions if you ask me, but I don't think most people are paying attention to the actual, known facts at this point).

I don't think the girlfriend's official statement has been released from the police. And in addition, we don't know how long it was between when they hung up and when the actual confrontation with physical contact started.

In reality, we have almost no real facts in this case yet.

Edited by kicker
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Wrong on several fronts. The girlfriend HAS given an official statement, plus they checked the phone records. There is a LOT that is known at this point, that much can't be denied. The question is what can they "make stick" at this point.

Wrong on several fronts. The girlfriend HAS given an official statement, plus they checked the phone records. There is a LOT that is known at this point, that much can't be denied. The question is what can they "make stick" at this point.

Please post the official statement that the police have released pertaining the girlfriend.

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I'm not digging up any of this stuff and posting, that's a job for you. I'm not trying to be an azz or split hairs, but the info is there. But yes, the girlfriend has made a statmement and they did verify the timeline. She was on the phone with him at 7:12 (IIRC), heard part of the altercation, cops were on the scene at 7:17 (again IIRC.

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There is something odd about this case, I feel like the media is not telling us everything and twisting the story around.

It's true. I have a friend who is a very important member of a well-known news source. He confided in me that they are not telling us everything and twisting the story around.

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I'm not digging up any of this stuff and posting, that's a job for you. I'm not trying to be an azz or split hairs, but the info is there. But yes, the girlfriend has made a statmement and they did verify the timeline. She was on the phone with him at 7:12 (IIRC), heard part of the altercation, cops were on the scene at 7:17 (again IIRC.

It hasn't been released. Period.

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Question, if it hasn't been released, then how was this info verified (the attornies from both sides have been talking about it)? The girlfriend gave a statement, period. As a matter of fact, it is to my understanding (from watching some attorneies speak on it the other night) that Mara is trying to find a way to cast doubt on it (her statement) already. The biggest lie that has been told is that there is not a lot of known facts about what happened. The police tried to convince some of the witnesses that they did not see what they saw five days after the fact. Why, I don't know, but the 13 y/o kid's mother was on tv blasting the cops (I'm guessing someone other than Serino), plus the woman that saw the fight said the police wasn;t really interested in her statement. Again, why, I don't know, but what we do know is Serino didn't buy Zims story either, and he was the lead investigator, so I'm quite sure he knows more than most at this point.

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Question, if it hasn't been released, then how was this info verified (the attornies from both sides have been talking about it)? The girlfriend gave a statement, period. As a matter of fact, it is to my understanding (from watching some attorneies speak on it the other night) that Mara is trying to find a way to cast doubt on it (her statement) already. The biggest lie that has been told is that there is not a lot of known facts about what happened. The police tried to convince some of the witnesses that they did not see what they saw five days after the fact. Why, I don't know, but the 13 y/o kid's mother was on tv blasting the cops (I'm guessing someone other than Serino), plus the woman that saw the fight said the police wasn;t really interested in her statement. Again, why, I don't know, but what we do know is Serino didn't buy Zims story either, and he was the lead investigator, so I'm quite sure he knows more than most at this point.

She has made a statement. The attorneys and families have seen it and spoken about it.. But it has not been released to the public. Edited by kicker
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****, I can't see (or spped type), but we are in agreement that there is a statement! Haha! The part for me that doesn't make sense are the actions of the police after the States Attorney became involved, plus when did they try to get the kid and the lady to change their stories. Again, who knows, but it'll be interesting when all of this is presented in a courtroom!

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Don't agree. Martin's girlfriends actual statements carries as much weight as anything Zimmerman has stated otherwise, plus, there was a woman looking out of the window (??) describing the fight in her backyard to the dispatcher, plus the 13 y/o boy, plus the other guy (??) that saw the end of the fight, and most importantly, Chris Serino, the lead investigator didn't buy Zims story that night and wanted to charge him. It will be an interesting trial regardless, but anybody that thinks Zim was a victim is simply not paying attention to the known facts that are out there right now. Who knows what else is out there.

I'm not sure what you disagree with. First, it will absolutely be a jury question to be answered. And they will be presented with all the facts, many of which we don't know, and some that have been skewed in the rush to grab information on this case. Second, the question, particularly if they go for 2nd degree murder, will hinge on the actions of Zim to get a conviction. Zim doesn't have to be a victim in order to be found not guilty of 2nd degree murder, as there are clearly a multitude of factors that will be considered and presented.

As far as any eyewitness testimony, phone conversations, etc., that will be laid out with specificity, not the broad interpretations that have been leaked or inferred thus far. We can play public investigator and jury all we want, but formal evidence doesn't get into the public's hand as that would cause major problems for an attempt at prosecution and/or defense.

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