Audio Should Clear Players Of Any "bounty" Punishment

[ThunderCookie]

The more that has come out lately the more I have supported Payton's suspension and Williams' ban. But this latest audio evidence has completely changed my mind on whether any Saint players should share in the punishment...

On the recording, Williams is heard telling the players, that while they may not be the best atheletes, they were signed because they were willing to play the way Williams wanted. He then went into detail as to what he wanted. Things like everyone in a pile should hit Gore in the head before getting up. Targeting outside acl or Vernon Davis's ankles. He was very specific. No coach speak, no vague "hit'em hard."

With Williams being so specific and stating this is what he expected from players he could directly effect their playing time and somewhat their career, how can anyone say that without a doubt the players were culpable? I personally don't believe the players ever reached the depths Williams wanted. Players could easily say they complied under duress. Even if they were not forced, an enviroment was created where this was considered the norm.

Goodell will be making a major mistake be suspending any Saint players for bountygate.

[SuperAINTSfan]

I disagree to an extent.

if your boss says jump off a bridge or get fired. Would u jump?

[DD: Objective Elite]

I think this 'proof' should put an end to any reinstatement Williams might be hoping for.

[Big Bubba]

I think Vilma will get the brunt of the player punishments. Mainly for his 10k bounty on Favre.

Outside of that, I agree.... the main blame falls on GW and to some extent, Payton.

[ThunderCookie]

I disagree to an extent.

if your boss says jump off a bridge or get fired. Would u jump?

If a stock brokerage has some unethical brokers, then you prosecute the individual brokers.

But.... If the VP has a sales meeting an outlines exactly what illegal activities are to be conducted and reminds the brokers that they were for this kind of behavior not their skills, then the company and those running it should be punished more so than the indivivuals.

[Big Bubba]

I disagree to an extent.

if your boss says jump off a bridge or get fired. Would u jump?

True, but these guys are bred like soldiers. Taught to not question their coaches, to do what they're told. To understand that their coaches know best. The exception being, most soldiers are 18 when they get enveloped in that kind of social setting, players are often thrust in it as young as peewee football.

I don't blame them. Was their coaches that let them down.

[Trouble]

Yeah where do you draw the lines though? When is enough finally enough? Do you get involved in odds making and bet on spreads? Do you throw games because the coaches tell you to? If the coach wants a player hurt do you pay someone to goto their house and jump them?

At some point a line is drawn and that line should be the NFL rulebook.

Brees is 1 of the top guys on the PA preaching player safety!!! Its crazy to not put fault on the players. If a terrorist bombs your house do you blame him or the guy that trained him or both?

Its simple, some of the players are not new and know better. How much is to much to try and cover up? No if your guilty in this, you should pay in some way shape or form. But i agree coaches should get the majority of the blame. No more so than the GM and HC because its their ship.

Edited April 5, 2012 by danight

[Guest Negatorris]

Now that I look at it, the players really couldn't do anything. I don't really even know if Greg gave them a choice before starting the bounty system, but I don't think any of them would speak up about it if they thought it was wrong, which they probably didn't. Still, they will be punished since they were the ones committing the acts on the field, going against everything(whatever that is) that Goodell stands for. There are hundreds of analogies, but even if someone tells you to do something wrong and you do it, you will also be punished unless you were under some kind of jedi mind control tricks.

Maybe Greg Williams could do that with his Moobs.

[ThunderCookie]

True, but these guys are bred like soldiers. Taught to not question their coaches, to do what they're told. To understand that their coaches know best. The exception being, most soldiers are 18 when they get enveloped in that kind of social setting, players are often thrust in it as young as peewee football.

I don't blame them. Was their coaches that let them down.

I agree. If a dog bites someone, whether the dog was a trained guard dog or just a mean mutt makes a huge difference.

[Trouble]

I agree. If a dog bites someone, whether the dog was a trained guard dog or just a mean mutt makes a huge difference.

Not really. You can have both put to sleep if enough damage is done and yes the owner can be brought up on criminal charges. So both share the blame regardless. Also id consider full grown men trained to play a sport, more a pitbull type of dog and not a beagle that loves everyone.

But a player could have contacted Benson or had someone else contact Benson and say this needs to stop. How about this. Someone let Brees know. Be like hey Brees we know your talking player safety in all but Williams wants us to kill someone this week. What should we do?

Edited April 5, 2012 by danight

[ThunderCookie]

Not really. You can have both put to sleep if enough damage is done and yes the owner can be brought up on criminal charges. So both share the blame regardless.

But a player could have contacted Benson or had someone else contact Benson and say this needs to stop. How about this. Someone let Brees know. Be like hey Brees we know your talking player safety in all but Williams wants us to kill someone this week. What should we do?

Well, I find it hard to believe that if the bounty program was known enough for someone not on the team to email Payton willing to chip and the entire offense knew nothing about it.

[Trouble]

I think everyone knew about the program. I also believe the O side of the ball got bonuses also. Everyone knew and thats why 27 people covered it up to the NFL. Its also why the PA wants a rep and a lawyer with each player questioned. Not because the NFL will criminal sue them. But so they dont incriminate them self more or rat out others with what they answer.

Anyone who has ever worked with lawyers knows that game.

Edited April 5, 2012 by danight

[DD: Objective Elite]

But a player could have contacted Benson or had someone else contact Benson and say this needs to stop. How about this. Someone let Brees know. Be like hey Brees we know your talking player safety in all but Williams wants us to kill someone this week. What should we do?

This is what I still can't get around. That Mr. Benson was lied to, presumably several times, by his staff. I'm a business owner myself and if I found out my GM was lieing to me, I would fire him, plain and simple. Now I understand Benson couldn't/wouldn't do that. After this and Payton's Vicoden mess, I'm positive Mr. Benson is less than thrilled with the public perception of the Saints.

[Shredman]

what part of they were warned over over again the last 2 yrs, do you not Understand ??????

the i didnt know thing is an Insult to anyone with a SHRED of Common Sense .....

~shakes head~

[razrtalon]

I think players will still be held accountable. In a created environment or not they are grown *** men. They have a choice on whether or not to indulge. Or injure if you will. Perhaps only players that were compensated or awarded for bounties will be persecuted, or suspended/fined.

Edited April 5, 2012 by razrtalon

[falconidae]

The NFLPA is certainly going to use the "they were coerced" argument- Brees used that word in his first public statement after this broke. Don't know how that will fly.

Think Vilma may be the player scapegoat like Williams was the coach scapegoat.

We don't know what they have on the players- if they have a bunch of specific incidents like Vilma and the 15K, then they'll be a lot of players missing a lot of time.