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Would You Do This Trade With The Bengals?


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Falcons give: Stephen Nicholas (SLB), conditional 2013 draft pick that can escalate to a 3rd.

Bengals give: Keith Rivers (SLB), Pat Sims (DT), Anthony Collins (OT)

Why the Bengals do it -- Keith Rivers is no longer on the Bengals depth chart in any capacity. They resigned Manny Lawson and drafted Dontay Moch as a future starter at SLB. Pat Sims is also not on the depth chart, and the team added our former DL Jamaal Anderson to be a DT. Anthony Collins is a backup OT. They also get a LB that is a solid veteran for depth in Nicholas.

Why the Falcons do it -- Rivers is an exemplary athlete at SLB. He is big, fast, strong and adept in coverage. Still young, Rivers could have his best years ahead of him on the right team. If he's fully healthy, he could compete with and likely beat Akeem Dent for the SLB spot. Then we'd have two linebackers with great speed and range on the edges of our defense. That would leave Dent to compete with Tatupu for the MLB spot.

Pat Sims is also not on the depth chart in Cincy, but he has some considerable untapped talent. He is a big-bodied DT that we do not currently have and could at the least be good depth for our hybrid defense. It's possible a change of scenery could do him "wonders", but this is more of a depth addition IMO so we don't have to burn a late rounder on a big bodied DT. Anthony Collins is a backup OT in Cincy, but has starting experience at left tackle and is still young (turned 26 in November). He could push Sam Baker for the starting gig, which is something we need at the left tackle spot: true competition. At the very worst he is good depth at both OT spots, as we cannot afford an injury to Tyson Clabo. Collins' has some athleticism that Baker does not, and Pat Hill could probably use this to make Collins' a pretty good starting left tackle in his scheme.

End result: We get one good starter at LB, one rotational DL, and one likely starter at some point at OT for Stephen Nicholas and a future draft pick.

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Die troll.

Cinci gains nothing from this trade. Not going to happen.

That isn't true. As far as Cincy is concerned, they are trading Anthony Collins only. Rivers and Sims are likely to get cut -- we trade for them instead so that they are not on the hook for their salaries which would equal dead cap money for them. Neither of those players are listed on the depth chart and won't be.

Cincy gets a conditional pick in 2013, so a free draft choice for a backup OT and I believe the pick would end up being a 4th rounder after playing time incentives have been reached by Rivers and Collins. Cincy also gets veteran depth at LB.

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Die troll.

That isn't true. As far as Cincy is concerned, they are trading Anthony Collins only. Rivers and Sims are likely to get cut -- we trade for them instead so that they are not on the hook for their salaries which would equal dead cap money for them. Neither of those players are listed on the depth chart and won't be.

Cincy gets a conditional pick in 2013, so a free draft choice for a backup OT and I believe the pick would end up being a 4th rounder after playing time incentives have been reached by Rivers and Collins. Cincy also gets veteran depth at LB.

Cincy has over 20 mil in cap space. They have zero reason to do this. Who is left in FA that they are going to spend over 20 mil on?

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Lol why are people so intent on getting rid of Nicholas? Not to mention, you trade Nicholas and a pick for the same position. AND you think the Bengals are going to give up 3 players for 1?!

Because Nicholas was hurt last year and is unspectacular. He is good in coverage when healthy and decent at everything else. You don't win Superbowls with decent players, let alone a single playoff game which we haven't been able to win. Nicholas has been a starting SLB for us that whole time, and that whole time we've been exploited over the middle and down the seam. He also isn't that fast, so he gets beat to the edge by a blocker and/or running back and we give up big yardage on stretch/toss plays that aren't mowed down by Weatherspoon.

I would much rather have Keith Rivers outside who is stronger and quicker. He's fallen out of favor in Cincy, but if healthy playing in our dome he'd fly around and be a playmaker for us. If you've read any of my stuff over the past few years you'd know I want an "elite" trio of LBs. LB is an underrated position even though it's the most involved on a play-to-play basis in all phases of the game (aside from DT).

To have Weatherspoon and Rivers on the outside would do wonders for our perimeter run defense and pass defense.

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Cincy has over 20 mil in cap space. They have zero reason to do this. Who is left in FA that they are going to spend over 20 mil on?

Has nothing to do with that, it would just be prudent GM'ing. Same reason why the Jets are trying to trade Bart Scott instead of releasing him. Same reason why the Panthers traded Mike Goodson instead of releasing him. Save $$ when you can, you never know when you'll need it. And they are going to need $$ btw when they have to re-sign Leon Hall, Maualuga, Carlos Dunlap, AJ Green, Andy Dalton, Jermaine Gresham, Andrew Whitworth, and Reggie Nelson to long-term big time deals.

They have so much cap space right now because their premier players are still on their rookie deals: Dalton, Green, Dunlap, Gresham, Hall, Nelson, Maualuga. Trust me when I tell you they'd rather save $3 million so they can re-sign these guys with it than pay for guys on the bottom of their depth chart. These "bottom depth" trades for low draft picks happen a lot, and we're offering a player and a conditional mid-round pick. They only become a better franchise, this year and next year in the draft. So do we.

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That's a lot for Nicholas and a 3rd. I would wonder what's wrong with the players.

Rivers -- has been injured for a few years, flashed dominance when healthy. Cincy is stocked at LB and Rivers has fallen entirely off their depth chart. Maualuga, Howard, Lawson are the starters and Muckelroy, Moch, and Brandon Johnson are their backups.

Sims -- a bust of sorts at DT in Cincy, also out of the rotation since they use a pentrating 4-3 defense and he is more of a run plugging 320 lb DT. Came out of college with tons of untapped potential, still yet to be tapped and fallen out of favor in Cincy. Peko and Atkins are the starters with Hayden behind them.

Collins -- was a starter at one point, a little raw when he came into the league and then the Bengals lucked out with Andrew Whitworth who has become a stud. Andre Smith at the other tackle spot has also started to work out for them. He's their top swing tackle, but still not a starter.

So a 3rd round pick is a lot for two guys who are going to be cut and a back up? I don't see your analysis. And they get a linebacker.

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Why would they trade Rivers, but take Nicholas if they already resigned Lawson and drafted a guy last year? Wouldn't that be pointless for them to just switch SLBs?

My point exactly. And they lose depth at other positions.. This trade wouldn't even benefit the Falcons. If those guys can't crack a roster like the Bengals' then they would have a hard time doing it here as well.... We'd also lose our best coverage LB.

Edited by Falcanuck
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Has nothing to do with that, it would just be prudent GM'ing. Same reason why the Jets are trying to trade Bart Scott instead of releasing him. Same reason why the Panthers traded Mike Goodson instead of releasing him. Save $$ when you can, you never know when you'll need it. And they are going to need $$ btw when they have to re-sign Leon Hall, Maualuga, Carlos Dunlap, AJ Green, Andy Dalton, Jermaine Gresham, Andrew Whitworth, and Reggie Nelson to long-term big time deals.

They have so much cap space right now because their premier players are still on their rookie deals: Dalton, Green, Dunlap, Gresham, Hall, Nelson, Maualuga. Trust me when I tell you they'd rather save $3 million so they can re-sign these guys with it than pay for guys on the bottom of their depth chart. These "bottom depth" trades for low draft picks happen a lot, and we're offering a player and a conditional mid-round pick. They only become a better franchise, this year and next year in the draft. So do we.

They just signed Reggie Nelson to a long term deal. They signed Leon Hall to a long term deal last year. Dalton and Green aren't FAs until 2015. Oh and they have closer to 40 million in cap room.

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Falcons give: Stephen Nicholas (SLB), conditional 2013 draft pick that can escalate to a 3rd.

Bengals give: Keith Rivers (SLB), Pat Sims (DT), Anthony Collins (OT)

Why the Bengals do it -- Keith Rivers is no longer on the Bengals depth chart in any capacity. They resigned Manny Lawson and drafted Dontay Moch as a future starter at SLB. Pat Sims is also not on the depth chart, and the team added our former DL Jamaal Anderson to be a DT. Anthony Collins is a backup OT. They also get a LB that is a solid veteran for depth in Nicholas.

Why the Falcons do it -- Rivers is an exemplary athlete at SLB. He is big, fast, strong and adept in coverage. Still young, Rivers could have his best years ahead of him on the right team. If he's fully healthy, he could compete with and likely beat Akeem Dent for the SLB spot. Then we'd have two linebackers with great speed and range on the edges of our defense. That would leave Dent to compete with Tatupu for the MLB spot.

Pat Sims is also not on the depth chart in Cincy, but he has some considerable untapped talent. He is a big-bodied DT that we do not currently have and could at the least be good depth for our hybrid defense. It's possible a change of scenery could do him "wonders", but this is more of a depth addition IMO so we don't have to burn a late rounder on a big bodied DT. Anthony Collins is a backup OT in Cincy, but has starting experience at left tackle and is still young (turned 26 in November). He could push Sam Baker for the starting gig, which is something we need at the left tackle spot: true competition. At the very worst he is good depth at both OT spots, as we cannot afford an injury to Tyson Clabo. Collins' has some athleticism that Baker does not, and Pat Hill could probably use this to make Collins' a pretty good starting left tackle in his scheme.

End result: We get one good starter at LB, one rotational DL, and one likely starter at some point at OT for Stephen Nicholas and a future draft pick.

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Because Nicholas was hurt last year and is unspectacular. He is good in coverage when healthy and decent at everything else. You don't win Superbowls with decent players, let alone a single playoff game which we haven't been able to win. Nicholas has been a starting SLB for us that whole time, and that whole time we've been exploited over the middle and down the seam. He also isn't that fast, so he gets beat to the edge by a blocker and/or running back and we give up big yardage on stretch/toss plays that aren't mowed down by Weatherspoon.

I would much rather have Keith Rivers outside who is stronger and quicker. He's fallen out of favor in Cincy, but if healthy playing in our dome he'd fly around and be a playmaker for us. If you've read any of my stuff over the past few years you'd know I want an "elite" trio of LBs. LB is an underrated position even though it's the most involved on a play-to-play basis in all phases of the game (aside from DT).

To have Weatherspoon and Rivers on the outside would do wonders for our perimeter run defense and pass defense.

Personally knowing that our nickle is on the field more id rather have an elite set of corners.

Edited by Atlfanstckndenver
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