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Transvaginal Ultrasound V. "stand Your Ground" = Brain Cramp


HolyMoses
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Is there anything hypocritical about the same legislatures who require a woman to be strapped down and vaginally probed before lawfully aborting a fetus, also passing legislation that permits folks to shoot a man (or boy) dead before even being required to, uh, maybe just go someplace ELSE.

Maybe they should require transANAL probing of folks who assert the "stand your ground" law (rather than actual self defense). Same with the legislatures that pass these laws.

I appreciate valuing the sanctity of life. And I understand that it is not easy to ask a man to surrender turf. But if you think you might be in danger, I think the law should require you to give up some turf and find safety before taking another life.

Edited by holymoses
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that depends on " what ground " you are standing.........and if you think turning your back to walk away leaves you open for attack ................if your in my house I'll send flowers to your funeral

sam

But that's the difference between with these "Stand Your Ground" laws. The Supreme Court ruled a long time ago that there is no duty to retreat within your own home. But these laws extend that to public places.

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I didn't know the answer to the question when I asked it. I do think that the answer is no.

TEXAS!!! Only state that actually requires the Transvaginal ultra sound. Virginia and North Carolina require ultra sounds but women can opt out of the T.V.U. Of course Texas has a Stand Your Ground law.

Everything's bigger in Texas, especially the hypocricy!

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TEXAS!!! Only state that actually requires the Transvaginal ultra sound. Virginia and North Carolina require ultra sounds but women can opt out of the T.V.U. Of course Texas has a Stand Your Ground law.

Everything's bigger in Texas, especially the hypocricy!

Wow just wow ..... From what I read it has be shot down in many states, but just the fact that is has been brought up speaks volumes of the mindset of some politicians/citizens.

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Question: Don't most abortion procedures require a woman to be strapped down and have either a fetus sucked out of their vag or surgery? That sounds far worse than a 'probe'.

That question is an assault on the concept of freedom and does not merit a substantive reply.

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They have the freedom to get an abortion no? It's still a choice. Also with an ultrasound couldn't that help choose the type of abortion procedure and provide the doctor with more info on the fetus?

Sounds like it would also help the doctor know what they are dealing with. I don't see what the big deal is. Before you go into surgery the physician often needs scans and more info on what they are operating on.

So long as we are in 100% agreement that stat legislatures are in the best position to make medical decisions, I don't think you are being hypocrical at all.

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Is there anything hypocritical about the same legislatures who require a woman to be strapped down and vaginally probed before lawfully aborting a fetus, also passing legislation that permits folks to shoot a man (or boy) dead before even being required to, uh, maybe just go someplace ELSE. Maybe they should require transANAL probing of folks who assert the "stand your ground" law (rather than actual self defense). Same with the legislatures that pass these laws. I appreciate valuing the sanctity of life. And I understand that it is not easy to ask a man to surrender turf. But if you think you might be in danger, I think the law should require you to give up some turf and find safety before taking another life.

If Zimmerman were being pursued, I'd defend his actions. If he was in his own yard, I'd defend his actions. The problem is that he did the pursuing. He seeked out his own version of justice. The law isn't the problem, even the writer of the legislation said it didn't apply in this case. The problem is a police department not doing its job correctly...

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They have the freedom to get an abortion no? It's still a choice. Also with an ultrasound couldn't that help choose the type of abortion procedure and provide the doctor with more info on the fetus?

Sounds like it would also help the doctor know what they are dealing with. I don't see what the big deal is. Before you go into surgery the physician often needs scans and more info on what they are operating on.

The problem with these laws is that they are unnecessary. Yes, the doctors who perform the procedure usually perform an ultrasound, but it's almost always the typical ultrasound procedure that isn't invasive. The problem with these laws is that they conflict with other laws on the books and it essentially forces doctors to break other laws and be culpable to "rape by instruments," along with the only point to these laws is to attempt to guilt trip women out of doing something they can legally do. These laws additionally apply to women who are only seeking an abortion due to complications with the pregnancy, such as discovering the child has a genetic disease, developed improperly, or something, which would almost guarantee the child would die, leaves the mother at risk of dying if she brought the fetus to term, and would likely bankrupt the family just to treat the child if it survived.

These laws serve no purpose outside of right wing politicians having a convulsion over the contraception debate. It doesn't really help that left wing politicians are proposing equally insane laws in response to prove a point, but the laws being passed by the right actually step on the rights of half the population of the country. If they got what they wanted, women could be raped by instruments, fired for using contraception (on top of already being at risk for being fired if they get pregnant), be forced to bring stillborn children to term because, as the logic for that argument went, "farm animals do it," and charging women with murder if they have complications with their pregnancy and the child is stillborn. These law proposals are pure insanity and pure idiocy from the states that actually pass them.

That is why there is a perception of a war on women from the right: Because they essentially are at war with them. In order to prove a point for their side of a cultural battle they are completely willing to show that they view women as second class citizens.

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So, let's say that in order to have an abortion, you have to sign away your first amendment rights. You guys are cool with that, right? I mean...since it's voluntary?

That argument is pretty stupid.

I don't get it.

Are you suggesting that abortions are not voluntary?

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So, let's say that in order to have an abortion, you have to sign away your first amendment rights. You guys are cool with that, right? I mean...since it's voluntary?

That argument is pretty stupid.

Not commenting on the validity or invalidity of such a law (honestly, I don't see a Constitutional problem so much as a political one, and I think it unseemly to require such an invasive procedure as a political matter). But we actually do this in a lot of areas now.

You have a right to privacy in your medical records under the HIPPA laws. You waive that right if you sue someone for personal injury, or file a worker's compenstaion claim, or otherwise place your medical condition at issue. Your voluntary choice to do one thing waives your right to privacy as to another thing.

Again, NOT saying this means transvaginal ultrasounds should be mandated for those seeking abortions. Just saying it's not as cut and dry as you seem to want it to be as a Constitutional matter.

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