Questions About Nolan Wanting Only 3 Down Players: Isn't 1 Lb Always A 2 Down Player In Nickel? And Why Does He Get What He Wants?

[falconidae]

So, Nolan only wants 3 down players, Lofton would be replaced in the nickel and Lofton may be gone because of that.

My 1st question is, isn't some LB always a 2 down player when you go to nickel? If they let Lofton go, Dent is the most logical replacement, and he's a 2 down player.

Haven't heard a direct quote, what did Nolan actually say? Does this apply to Abe as well?

2nd question- of course he wants 3 down players, he also wants Ware and Allen as bookend DEs. Doesn't mean he's getting that. 3 down players is an ideal, just like "10 players with 4 sacks each".

The reality may be for Nolan that, at least for this coming year, a combination of Lofton and a to-be-signed/drafted big NT on 1st and 2nd downs and bunch of pass rush specialists on 3rd down is the way to go.

I understand not wanting to pay elite LB dollars for a 2 down player, but hat's not what Nolan said, apparently. He said he doesn't want 2 down players.

Can anybody help me understand this?

[Master Exploder]

Lofton plays in the nickel package.

I haven't heard anything about this comment, but I would assume he's specifically talking about the defensive line, which would probably mean he's not a fan of our system of rotating guys in and out.

[FalconsManhood]

He never said that he wants every player in on 3rd down but that he wants players CAPABLE of staying in on all 3 downs.

This allows a defense to disguise what they are doing much better, I understand it is impossible to have this at every position and Mike knows this as well. But if you have a LB who can only stay on the field 1st and 2nd down (3rd down in lofton's case but he was terrible in coverage and should have been on the bench) you do not pay this guy big money.

Like you said, go with dent and some (cheaper) pass rushing specialists.

The writing is on the wall, Nolan does not covet Lofton, Lofton thinks he is elite and wants a big payday, not going to happen in ATL.

[vdove0926]

It's not a question of if Lofton is a 2 down LB, its a question of how much do we want to pay a 2 down LB. Like you said we have Dent.

Then let Lofton walk get your big NT in a guy like Paul Soliai, sign Mathis and Abe for the right price. Let's all remember Sid. We get Mathis and Abe then we will have your 3 speed guys and a big NT.

[falcon057]

So, Nolan only wants 3 down players, Lofton would be replaced in the nickel and Lofton may be gone because of that.

My 1st question is, isn't some LB always a 2 down player when you go to nickel? If they let Lofton go, Dent is the most logical replacement, and he's a 2 down player.

Haven't heard a direct quote, what did Nolan actually say? Does this apply to Abe as well?

2nd question- of course he wants 3 down players, he also wants Ware and Allen as bookend DEs. Doesn't mean he's getting that. 3 down players is an ideal, just like "10 players with 4 sacks each".

The reality may be for Nolan that, at least for this coming year, a combination of Lofton and a to-be-signed/drafted big NT on 1st and 2nd downs and bunch of pass rush specialists on 3rd down is the way to go.

I understand not wanting to pay elite LB dollars for a 2 down player, but hat's not what Nolan said, apparently. He said he doesn't want 2 down players.

Can anybody help me understand this?

New defensive coordinator Mike Nolan reportedly plans to remove MLB Curtis Lofton from nickel packages if the Falcons re-sign the free agent.

It sounds like Nolan wasn't pleased with what Lofton put on tape as a cover linebacker in 2011. Len Pasquarelli of the Sports XChange does confirm that re-signing Lofton is a "priority" for the Falcons, whose run defense collapsed down the stretch. Pasquarelli suggests WLB Sean Weatherspoon playing the middle on nickel downs. Pro Football Focus agrees that Lofton was a liability more often than not in coverage. Weatherspoon has more range. Feb 10 - 3:55 PM

Source: Yahoo Sports

[delaigle]

Kinda funny

Remember many fans did not like MM's power run game in a era of pass happy footbal

So now we have Nolan-- a defensive scheme using 3 down players

in an era of defensive specialization, ie More nickel backs, more dime backs, more pass rush specialist, safety blitzers, corner blitzers, etc

Have we just switched for an offense out of sync to a defense out of sync

Edited February 19, 2012 by delaigle

[Tribal Chief]

Can Nicholas play MLB. Put Adkins outside and give him and his 4.4 speed a chance to shine. May not work but it leaves more money to sign other players

[Master Exploder]

Can Nicholas play MLB. Put Adkins outside and give him and his 4.4 speed a chance to shine. May not work but it leaves more money to sign other players

I've been wondering about Weatherspoon moving to MLB if we opted to not resign Lofton. One of his strongest attributes coming out of the draft was that he could play all 3 positions. Jon Beason is a good WLB that's had a lot of success transitioning to the middle.

[vel]

Kinda funny

Remember many fans did not like MM's power run game in a era of pass happy footbal

So now we have Nolan-- a defensive scheme using 3 down players

in an era of defensive specialization, ie More nickel backs, more dime backs, more pass rush specialist, safety blitzers, corner blitzers, etc

Have we just switched for an offense out of sync to a defense out of sync

I'd understand the attempt at this but the fact that MM has failed a number of times and had a trend of only lasting 3 years before here and Nolan has experienced good to great success at every stop he has been to negates that.

[Tribal Chief]

I've been wondering about Weatherspoon moving to MLB if we opted to not resign Lofton. One of his strongest attributes coming out of the draft was that he could play all 3 positions. Jon Beason is a good WLB that's had a lot of success transitioning to the middle.

That could work as well. Either way, we are in position to easily replace him if he walks, just need depth.

[Master Exploder]

That could work as well. Either way, we are in position to easily replace him if he walks, just need depth.

It's interesting to me. Stephen Nicholas started out as a WLB and a lot of scouts felt like Akeem Dent would play SLB in the NFL. It would be very interesting if we lost Lofton and shifted our LBers around. They are all certainly capable of it.

[Wardog357]

I've been wondering about Weatherspoon moving to MLB if we opted to not resign Lofton. One of his strongest attributes coming out of the draft was that he could play all 3 positions. Jon Beason is a good WLB that's had a lot of success transitioning to the middle.

Me personally....with the enthusiasm Weaterspoon shows.....I'd love to see him as the emotional leader of our defense. Making the reads and firing the guys up!

[vel]

Me personally....with the enthusiasm Weaterspoon shows.....I'd love to see him as the emotional leader of our defense. Making the reads and firing the guys up!

I think that is what would happen. This would be a better defense led by Spoon than Lofton. He can't be that if Lofton is here. Lofton isn't a true leader at MLB. He tries to be but it's not him. You could replace Lofton with the 3rd round comp he would warrant. But the problem is he still has upside and has improved every year in coverage.

[madman88]

So, Nolan only wants 3 down players, Lofton would be replaced in the nickel and Lofton may be gone because of that.

My 1st question is, isn't some LB always a 2 down player when you go to nickel? If they let Lofton go, Dent is the most logical replacement, and he's a 2 down player.

Haven't heard a direct quote, what did Nolan actually say? Does this apply to Abe as well?

2nd question- of course he wants 3 down players, he also wants Ware and Allen as bookend DEs. Doesn't mean he's getting that. 3 down players is an ideal, just like "10 players with 4 sacks each".

The reality may be for Nolan that, at least for this coming year, a combination of Lofton and a to-be-signed/drafted big NT on 1st and 2nd downs and bunch of pass rush specialists on 3rd down is the way to go.

I understand not wanting to pay elite LB dollars for a 2 down player, but hat's not what Nolan said, apparently. He said he doesn't want 2 down players.

Can anybody help me understand this?

players only come off the field when they cnt do ceetain things.. if a guy cnt cover, then you wnt be seeing him in there.. or if a LB is a good blitzer but not so good in space then he can be in on nickel just to rush the passer...

all these packages in todays game is to put certaon players in the best possible situation... if a DC had 11 guys who can play al l downs then there would hardly be any subs...

nolan has the right to come in and get wat he wants, his track record says that itself, plus making a move to bring nolan in shows smith needs and now wants help....

[pzummo]

The defensive package you are in has more to do with the opposing offense's personnel, not the down and distance. 3 down players means that the situation doesn't dictate the personnel. If the offense is in a 2 wide set, and we are in our 4-3 base, we don't have to change personnel if they are facing a 3rd and 10. That is 3 down players. If a team goes to a 4 wide set, we are going to be in our Dime package. If the opposing offense goes into the no huddle, our Dime should be able to play in any down and distance situation whether they are running or passing out of that personnel package.

Having 3 down players does not mean they are in every defensive package we have for every defensive snap we play. Frankly, with the amount of no huddle teams are starting to run, I think he's absolutely correct in this regard. You do not want a player out there that has to be substituted because he's a liability. If a player is out there based on personnel matchup, and the opposing team goes into the no huddle, that player should not become a liability based on pass vs run.

[tobyd77]

So, Nolan only wants 3 down players, Lofton would be replaced in the nickel and Lofton may be gone because of that.

My 1st question is, isn't some LB always a 2 down player when you go to nickel? If they let Lofton go, Dent is the most logical replacement, and he's a 2 down player.

Haven't heard a direct quote, what did Nolan actually say? Does this apply to Abe as well?

2nd question- of course he wants 3 down players, he also wants Ware and Allen as bookend DEs. Doesn't mean he's getting that. 3 down players is an ideal, just like "10 players with 4 sacks each".

The reality may be for Nolan that, at least for this coming year, a combination of Lofton and a to-be-signed/drafted big NT on 1st and 2nd downs and bunch of pass rush specialists on 3rd down is the way to go.

I understand not wanting to pay elite LB dollars for a 2 down player, but hat's not what Nolan said, apparently. He said he doesn't want 2 down players.

Can anybody help me understand this?

I don't know if you will hear me or you want but I'm going to attempt to try and reach out to you on Nolan's way of thinking and let you be the judge on rather it makes sense to you or not. I'm going to post for you from Nolan's mouth why Nolan wants as many 3 down lineman as possible during Nolan's phone presser he had upon his hiring as the Falcons DC.

On whether he’s looking for three-down players:

The more three-down players you can get, the better. There’s no question about that. As a matter of fact, usually when guys are talking about who you draft, it’s hard for teams to draft a two-down player, in my opinion, in the real high first round. You’ve got to try to get as many three-down guys as you can, but sometimes you don’t, and sometimes it takes years for those guys to develop into a three-down player. But I think that’s important. I’ll tell you the thing that’s affect that more than anything else, to be honest with you, is the way the offenses are tempoing the game, you can’t get that guy on the field and off the field in time without getting a penalty if you’re not careful. That might sound a little crazy, but you guys have all watched the game. When an offense is in a hurry-up mode, you can’t send a lot of guys on and off the field, so you need as many three-down players as you can get, otherwise you just bite the bullet and just leave them out there and say we can’t sacrifice having a 5-yard penalty because we have too many guys on the field or not enough and give up a touchdown. To me, that’s the biggest effect of three-down players, more so than who’s the better player.

It's going to help us in the long run to do this because the game is changing to a faster tempo game and you should know this from just watching our falcons when they run the nohuddle and have witnessed what it has done to a defense not prepared for that attack when you look on the sidelines and have seen a defense winded after the falcons put that nohuddle attack on them this is the result of just having two down lineman that can't keep up the consitent energy up for all three downs especially in passing down situations. I highlighted what i thought would jump out to you but here is the link to the full presser encase you would like to read for yourself.

http://www.atlantafalcons.com/2012/01/transcript-mike-nolan-conference-call/

[tobyd77]

Guys give him a chance to prove his philosophy we gave BVG and Smitty four years and we don't have a playoff win yet so what do we have to loose that we haven't lost already 0-3 playoff record.

On whether he’s looking for three-down players:

The more three-down players you can get, the better. There’s no question about that. As a matter of fact, usually when guys are talking about who you draft, it’s hard for teams to draft a two-down player, in my opinion, in the real high first round. You’ve got to try to get as many three-down guys as you can, but sometimes you don’t, and sometimes it takes years for those guys to develop into a three-down player. But I think that’s important. I’ll tell you the thing that’s affect that more than anything else, to be honest with you, is the way the offenses are tempoing the game, you can’t get that guy on the field and off the field in time without getting a penalty if you’re not careful. That might sound a little crazy, but you guys have all watched the game. When an offense is in a hurry-up mode, you can’t send a lot of guys on and off the field, so you need as many three-down players as you can get, otherwise you just bite the bullet and just leave them out there and say we can’t sacrifice having a 5-yard penalty because we have too many guys on the field or not enough and give up a touchdown. To me, that’s the biggest effect of three-down players, more so than who’s the better player.

[tobyd77]

And Patrick Willis is a 3 down lineman and is considered one of the best in the game and was drafted by Nolan to the 49ers and is a probowler at that and just went to a NFC championship game part of a top 5 defense and in the top 3 against the run legitimately I might add. We may have finished six against the run but that stat has question mark by it as it was tested time an time again. We couldn't even stop MJD and he was one guy yes he didn't get a TD on us But he still gashed us for over 100yds in rushing.

[FalconsManhood]

So asking for # down players is a problem? Smfh

[txfalconfan]

So, Nolan only wants 3 down players, Lofton would be replaced in the nickel and Lofton may be gone because of that.

My 1st question is, isn't some LB always a 2 down player when you go to nickel? If they let Lofton go, Dent is the most logical replacement, and he's a 2 down player.

Haven't heard a direct quote, what did Nolan actually say? Does this apply to Abe as well?

2nd question- of course he wants 3 down players, he also wants Ware and Allen as bookend DEs. Doesn't mean he's getting that. 3 down players is an ideal, just like "10 players with 4 sacks each".

The reality may be for Nolan that, at least for this coming year, a combination of Lofton and a to-be-signed/drafted big NT on 1st and 2nd downs and bunch of pass rush specialists on 3rd down is the way to go.

I understand not wanting to pay elite LB dollars for a 2 down player, but hat's not what Nolan said, apparently. He said he doesn't want 2 down players.

Can anybody help me understand this?

Its a matter of flexibility. If you have several players who can play 3 downs but have different strengths you can disguise coverages, blitzes, etc. and keep the offense guessing. If you have guys that have to come out on 3rd down the offense can try to gameplan for specific guys in certain packages when they are on the field. It just allows for flexibility in defensive gameplanning.

[Master Exploder]

And Patrick Willis is a 3 down lineman and is considered one of the best in the game and was drafted by Nolan to the 49ers and is a probowler at that and just went to a NFC championship game part of a top 5 defense and in the top 3 against the run legitimately I might add. We may have finished six against the run but that stat has question mark by it as it was tested time an time again. We couldn't even stop MJD and he was one guy yes he didn't get a TD on us But he still gashed us for over 100yds in rushing.

Not many people stopped MJD this season. He led that league in rushing. He's a pretty exceptional player.

[Sheldon Cooper]

Nolan had Karlos Dansby at MLB along with Crowder before the knee injury and they are SLB's in a 4-3 due to coverage ability. I like the idea of having SLB's or LB's who can cover inside in a 3-4 set because they do not have to come out in obvious passing situations. Nicholas and Weatherspoon fit the bill and are under contract.

I am not interested in re-signing Lofton because he is a liability vs the pass despite his very good run defense. Add his price tag and we can get better cheaper without him plus gain a good comp pick next year. I feel the same about Grimes and Abraham. Grimes is great vs the pass down the field but is a liability vs the run. many big runs are aided by his innability to seal the corner. He wants more than he is really worth and I think his lack of physicality is a misfit for Nolan. Abe is one of the best all around DE's still and if he will play 3-4 OLB for 9 mil a year on a 2 or 3 yr contract bring him back. If not, lets move on because 3-4 OLB's spring up every year. Biermann is who I would prefer to re-sign with the intentions of starting him at OLB. We would get comp picks for Abe and Grimes also unless we signed free agents that offset their loss which will be neccessary. The percieved value of who is lost and added will be how we can add comp picks and IMO improve the defense without overpaying for the exact same defense we had last year.

[vel]

And Patrick Willis is a 3 down lineman and is considered one of the best in the game and was drafted by Nolan to the 49ers and is a probowler at that and just went to a NFC championship game part of a top 5 defense and in the top 3 against the run legitimately I might add. We may have finished six against the run but that stat has question mark by it as it was tested time an time again. We couldn't even stop MJD and he was one guy yes he didn't get a TD on us But he still gashed us for over 100yds in rushing.

Nobody could stop MJD. He led the NFL in rushing.

[tobyd77]

I don't think so he didn't register a 100yd rushing over every team in the NFL and one would be untruthful if they said he did. remember the Falocns were one spot a way from securing the #1 spot against the rush but slipped against great running teams down the stretch that is not a legitimate run defense IMO. SF was that plus some and proved it time and time again MJD would not have gotten much on their run defense and they stayed consistent all year long and didn't even allow a rushing TD all season.

[pzummo]

I don't think so he didn't register a 100yd rushing over every team in the NFL and one would be untruthful if they said he did. remember the Falocns were one spot a way from securing the #1 spot against the rush but slipped against great running teams down the stretch that is not a legitimate run defense IMO. SF was that plus some and proved it time and time again MJD would not have gotten much on their run defense and they stayed consistent all year long and didn't even allow a rushing TD all season.

Marshawn Lynch rushed for a TD against them in week 16.