Jump to content

Spags Vs Nolan


vel
 Share

Recommended Posts

I don't know if anybody thought about this, but how does the Giants winning the Super Bowl effect your view on Spags now? Yes, I know we got Nolan and I would have been just as happy if we got Spags, but Perry Fewell just did the same thing that Spags did 4 years ago. So is it the talent or did Spags impact that defense that much? It's quite evident Nolan leaves a trail after every destination, the Ravens, Niners, Broncos, and Dolphins all have that fire and swagger on defense still. Whether it was Nolan or not is just as much a mystery as if the Giants defense was Spags or not.

Just thought I'd throw something out there other than Ryan bashing

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know if anybody thought about this, but how does the Giants winning the Super Bowl effect your view on Spags now? Yes, I know we got Nolan and I would have been just as happy if we got Spags, but Perry Fewell just did the same thing that Spags did 4 years ago. So is it the talent or did Spags impact that defense that much? It's quite evident Nolan leaves a trail after every destination, the Ravens, Niners, Broncos, and Dolphins all have that fire and swagger on defense still. Whether it was Nolan or not is just as much a mystery as if the Giants defense was Spags or not.

Just thought I'd throw something out there other than Ryan bashing

Thank you!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

More of the credit should go to Giants GM Jerry Reese who has been stocking up dline draft picks

and not overspending in free agency for players . Spags is a good coach that is probably more fitted for our personell but Nolan can adapt and imply a attacking scheme .

I am fine with TD's draft strategy, essentially building this team from scratch. When's the last time the Giants were 4-12 and picking in the top 5? It's a lot easier to maintain a good team than build one. Ask the Steelers and Browns. I think we are close to being able to go BPA in the draft like the Giants. Plus, I still don't think we over spent for DRob in FA. He was the best corner available and won't make the last 2 years on his contract. He made $5-7MM base each year, which is fine. His last 2 years will be $22MM in cap hits he won't see.

To be fair Spags always gets good pass rush but he needs good pass rushers to do so, in NY he had Strahan, Osi, and Tuck. In St. Louis he had Quinn and Long.

That's what I am saying. He has a HOFer and 2 studs in the Super Bowl. They were going to wreak that havoc regardless of what Spags called.

Personally, I do think it is a mix, but I think more 60-40 Talent-Spags. We will see with the Saints. They have a very pedestrian pass rush.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Makes me glad we got Nolan. It seems as the entire defensive unit plays well for his football teams. When you think of the Giants and Spags, you only think about the pass rush and that really it. Nolan will get our D to play as a unit, will make everybody better.

And you also think about the Super Bowl.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good question..

I think Spags did a better job coaching the defense back then. He put up an overall better defense, IMO. The defense back then carried the team a lot more, than the Giants D did this year. I'm not trying to take anything away from Fewell and his D (they also had a lot of injuries they had to overcome) so he has done a good job - but my point is that Eli has matured a great deal since '07, and he is the one carrying the team now. And that improved offense makes it a lot easier for the defense to play well..

There were questions about Fewell through the entire regular season, and some though he would get fired at some point.. He did a good job this year, but overall when you factor in the importance of an improved offense and a more mature Eli, i think i would have to say that Spags' job back then was a better piece of work.

In my mind the Giants have always been very good at finding pass rushers, and that makes it easier for a guy like Fewell to get a good defense on the field. So I think it is hard to answer your question, but I feel like the Giants are somewhat of a tough case to use, as the talent at DL has always been excellent, therefore it is hard to differentiate between talent and coaching. I don't believe that Fewell is better than Spags, but both have been in a great situation while with the Giants. So it is hard to really answer your question. But my gut feeling is, that Spags is good but, like Fewell, really cashed in on having great talent on the DL.

What Spags has done since just hasn't impressed many people, and that is why I think this question comes up. I would have been happy with Spags, but I always wanted Nolan just a tad more.. What we might have to take into account though, is the fact that Spags actually did get a pretty good pass rush in STL, so i guess he knows a little something. But IMO the combination of Spags and the talent in NY was just great for them. With Fewell, it is kind of the same situation, although the talent has shined through a bit more, I think.

Good question though.

Edited by niels petersen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I credit the Giants GM.. He's a great drafter, he's hitting on more picks than he's missing.

Yep he has destroyed TD in drafting . Over past 4 seasons

Nicks - 1st round pick he didnt give up 5 picks for him

Manningham - took a chance on 3rd round

JPP- going to be a premier DE rusher long time

Cruz - undrafted rookie free agent

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's more about the Talent than coaching. Look at how many assistants from winning teams get head coaching gigs then falter with another team. How many NE offensive coordinators got promoted as "offensive minded" head coaches? Despite multiple OC Tom Brady still puts up big numbers every year.

Charlie Weiss is still considered an offensive genius but really, did he have any real success as head coach other than the first couple of years at Norte Dame with Ty Willingham's draft class. He even recruited the top QB prospect in Clausen who was the 3rd string QB in Carolina this past year.

Nolan & Koetter lacked the players in the last job. There are more to work with in Atlanta. I think they will have more success here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yep he has destroyed TD in drafting . Over past 4 seasons

Nicks - 1st round pick he didnt give up 5 picks for him

Manningham - took a chance on 3rd round

JPP- going to be a premier DE rusher long time

Cruz - undrafted rookie free agent

Matt Ryan - Good quarterback

Sean Weatherspoon - Stud 1st rounder

Corey Peters - Dline starter and very good player

Willie Mo - A very good strong safety

Curtis Lofton - Stud 2nd rd middle LB

You named 4, thats 5, (without Julio). TD is doing what he thinks is best but I think we have some player development issues as with Sidbury, he shows flashes only to never see the light of day. The players are talented that he is bringing in for the most part but that talent has to be developed also.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Spags was the hotter name - and I like Spagnuolo - still do.

However, I think Mike Nolan has had the better career as defensive coordinator because he has been successful on every defense with which he has worked - New York, Baltimore, San Francisco, Denver, and Miami. What that tells me is that - in no way - has Mike Nolan been "lucky" to have just happened to been the defensive coordinator at the right time when the talent level was elite on defensive side of the ball. Baltimore had a lot of talent, SanFran basicallly had 1-2 players and Denver/Miami did not have elite defensive talent.

Mike Nolan is a stud - he will whip the Falcons defense into shape and make it good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's more about the Talent than coaching. Look at how many assistants from winning teams get head coaching gigs then falter with another team. How many NE offensive coordinators got promoted as "offensive minded" head coaches? Despite multiple OC Tom Brady still puts up big numbers every year.

Charlie Weiss is still considered an offensive genius but really, did he have any real success as head coach other than the first couple of years at Norte Dame with Ty Willingham's draft class. He even recruited the top QB prospect in Clausen who was the 3rd string QB in Carolina this past year.

Nolan & Koetter lacked the players in the last job. There are more to work with in Atlanta. I think they will have more success here.

I agree somewhat. But i think it is hard to say that something is more important than the other. Every player and every coach is different, so there can be many different outcomes of what looks like the same situation.

Obviously talent is very important. But you also need someone to develop that talent and get the most out of it, and you need someone who knows how to use the talent at hand in the best way possible.. Thats where I think our problems were.

So I think it is more a question of the relationship between the abilities of the coaches and the abilities of the players that really matters. Again, I have long felt that there has been a mismatch between what the players wanted to do, and what MM wanted to do, which ultimately resulted in the players losing faith in our offense, because of a mismatch and miscommunication between the players (talent) and the coaches.. Hopefulle that is goin to be fixed with Koetter and Nolan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree somewhat. But i think it is hard to say that something is more important than the other. Every player and every coach is different, so there can be many different outcomes of what looks like the same situation.

Obviously talent is very important. But you also need someone to develop that talent and get the most out of it, and you need someone who knows how to use the talent at hand in the best way possible.. Thats where I think our problems were.

So I think it is more a question of the relationship between the abilities of the coaches and the abilities of the players that really matters. Again, I have long felt that there has been a mismatch between what the players wanted to do, and what MM wanted to do, which ultimately resulted in the players losing faith in our offense, because of a mismatch and miscommunication between the players (talent) and the coaches.. Hopefulle that is goin to be fixed with Koetter and Nolan.

this is correct. Neither Mike Mularkey(offense) nor BVG/Mike Smith(defense) knew how to scheme the talent they had. I am confident that Mike Nolan will scheme the talent that he is provided to get the most out of them. I'm not as certain on Koetter but I do believe he, by default, has to be better than Mike Mularkey - who I thought really held Matt Ryan back in his development and confidence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know if anybody thought about this, but how does the Giants winning the Super Bowl effect your view on Spags now? Yes, I know we got Nolan and I would have been just as happy if we got Spags, but Perry Fewell just did the same thing that Spags did 4 years ago. So is it the talent or did Spags impact that defense that much? It's quite evident Nolan leaves a trail after every destination, the Ravens, Niners, Broncos, and Dolphins all have that fire and swagger on defense still. Whether it was Nolan or not is just as much a mystery as if the Giants defense was Spags or not.

Just thought I'd throw something out there other than Ryan bashing

Not to mention that if we had Spags, he would be a candidate for a HC job somewhere. Nolan already said he doesn't want to be HC anymore.. I guess minds can change but that's what I heard. I think we got the best candidate for us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...