falcon057 Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 Lol! man I dnt know if i should thank you or just make a play for that midget y'all have playing cornerback!Just remember his wife comes with him as a package deal. 2 for the price of one. I hope you get him that would off set the cond. pick next year after we sign Nicks LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-dawg Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Yes they are differently things, but if you have small cap hit, you aren't getting paid. There is no way to give a guy $18M and have a $5M cap hit. Yes they are going to structure to make it as cheap as possible to bring back the most players, but there is no way around it with Brees. Like you said, you expect Brees to average around $18M a season. Over course it could be back loaded, but the guaranteed money prevents it from being too back loaded. Dunta's is a back loaded contract but he made $12M in the first year. What Brees makes will impact the cap. A $25M signing bonus will give him a $25M+ cap hit.Sorry but Brees will easily make the same kind of money as Brady and Manning. His cap hit will illustrate that. The only way for Brees to have a small initial cap hit is to take a small check home in 2012. I don't see that happening. They are going to reward Brees handsomely for rejuvenating that city.highlighted above is not true. Signing bonuses are amortized over the life of the contract - annual salaries are not.there are lots of tricks to reducing the cap hit for a QB. I may have exaggerated at $5 million cap hit for 2012 - but I do think it could be $10 million or slightly less with some creative finance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vel Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 highlighted above is not true. Signing bonuses are amortized over the life of the contract - annual salaries are not.there are lots of tricks to reducing the cap hit for a QB. I may have exaggerated at $5 million cap hit for 2012 - but I do think it could be $10 million or slightly less with some creative finance.I still don't see how. If they could, Peyton and Brady wouldn't take up so much cap room. Rivers especially wouldn't. Unless Brees foregoes any kind of signing bonus this year, he will have a sizable cap hit. No elite QB has a cap hit $10M and under. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-dawg Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Colston,Sproles,and a your T/E may look for money this and next year also. You are looking to add L/BS and D/L men. Not so quick to spend 20 mill on TWO GUARDS MY FRIEND !Drew Brees could make Cole Magner(remember me? "Sunshine" ), Kerry Meier and Michael Jenkins look like great receivers.I honestly don't think Brees needs super-talented guys - Bree-Jesus is just that disgustingly good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-dawg Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I still don't see how. If they could, Peyton and Brady wouldn't take up so much cap room. Rivers especially wouldn't. Unless Brees foregoes any kind of signing bonus this year, he will have a sizable cap hit. No elite QB has a cap hit $10M and under.you cannot do it(lessen the cap hit) for several years of a 5-7 yr contract but you can lessen the cap hit for 1-2 years. Also remember the cap is projected to go up in future years as well - so guaranteed bigger salaries in the future is no skin off Brees' back. He's gettin' paid either way if the money is guaranteed. Besides, if you put it in the bank, its going to draw 0.0000000001% interest right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.L.A BOI Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Just remember his wife comes with him as a package deal. 2 for the price of one. I hope you get him that would off set the cond. pick next year after we sign Nicks LOLYeah we would take his wife! She has the temperament of a rabbit pitbull maybe we put 30 , 40lbs on her and she can play the nose we need a Lil bit of evil on our d line! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vel Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 you cannot do it(lessen the cap hit) for several years of a 5-7 yr contract but you can lessen the cap hit for 1-2 years. Also remember the cap is projected to go up in future years as well - so guaranteed bigger salaries in the future is no skin off Brees' back. He's gettin' paid either way if the money is guaranteed. Besides, if you put it in the bank, its going to draw 0.0000000001% interest right now.I guess we will see. I just don't see it happening. You do. As long as we beat them next year I could care less how much he makes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcon057 Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 Drew Brees could make Cole Magner(remember me? "Sunshine" ), Kerry Meier and Michael Jenkins look like great receivers.I honestly don't think Brees needs super-talented guys - Bree-Jesus is just that disgustingly good.It helps when no one is in your face and your standing upright for 5 seconds to see down field as you stand flat footed. He has real talent but it makes a huge difference when you are given time and rarely getting sacked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-dawg Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 It helps when no one is in your face and your standing upright for 5 seconds to see down field as you stand flat footed. He has real talent but it makes a huge difference when you are given time and rarely getting sacked.agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcon057 Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Yeah we would take his wife! She has the temperament of a rabbit pitbull maybe we put 30 , 40lbs on her and she can play the nose we need a Lil bit of evil on our d line!lol Nose tackle making friends now! Edited January 20, 2012 by falcon057 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theonenotthe2 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 vel, how do you know what Brees will count against the cap in 2012 since he is an UFA at this point. Obviously Brees will be re-signed, but it will probably be a HUGE signing bonus and small base salary. I would not be suprised if Brees "cap figure" for 2012 will be $10 million or less.Agreed, though I think the 2012 cap figure will be higher than $10 million. I can, however, seeing it being as low as $11 or 12 million.Because Manning and Brady's cap hits were $16M and $13M respectively, with Tom's jumping to $15M and $18M the next 3 years. Brees isn't getting any less than $15M. Phillip Rivers cap hit is $14M. I think Brees will be getting more than Rivers.I don't think Brees is going to be taking less than $10MM in any one season.cap hits and "average income" over the contract and guaranteed money are totally different things.I fully expect Brees to average about $18 million/season.Correct, G-Dawg! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theonenotthe2 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Yes they are differently things, but if you have small cap hit, you aren't getting paid. There is no way to give a guy $18M and have a $5M cap hit. Yes they are going to structure to make it as cheap as possible to bring back the most players, but there is no way around it with Brees. Like you said, you expect Brees to average around $18M a season. Over course it could be back loaded, but the guaranteed money prevents it from being too back loaded. Dunta's is a back loaded contract but he made $12M in the first year. What Brees makes will impact the cap. A $25M signing bonus will give him a $25M+ cap hit.You ought to listen more to G-Dawg; he actually knows of what he speak. A $25 million signing bonus does not equal a $25 million+ cap hit because the bonus is prorated over the life of the deal. Also, signing bonuses have been decreased in favor of guaranteed money. For example, Brady only received a $16 million signing bonus. Brees indicated today that he has been active in talks in the past and plans to be instrumental in future talks as he, MIckey Loomis, and Sean Payton plan to bring back ALL of their top free agents, including Nicks.Now, another point. The Saints WILL NOT give Drew $18 million and only have a $5 million cap hit as you have surmised. It is, however, not impossible as you have suggested. If the Saints gave Drew Brees a 6 year deal with an $18 million bonus and a first year base salary of $2 million, his cap hit would be exactly $5 million. This is not going to take place because the Saints can afford to pay him more than that even with the other free agents we have. But it is not a "no way" possible situation as you have depicted here. Edited January 21, 2012 by theonenotthe2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theonenotthe2 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 If Brees is not signed within the next month, the Saints will have to use their franchise tag on him (per Adam Schefter) which means Nicks would walk. Adam is one of the most trusted members of the media; yet, he has been wrong before in the past. I would actually trust Jay Glazer more as it relates to info regarding the Saints. He and Payton are close, and it is he who usually breaks information on the Saints. Now, the assumption here by Schefter is a logical one. No deal for Brees in a month, franchise him. Well, to accept the logic in that one has to believe that Drew is willing to leave the team. Drew and Sean are tied at the hip and there's no way he leaves. Thus, the Saints do not have to franchise him. They could use the tag on either Colston or NIcks. Beyond that, Drew has indicated today that they expect a deal to get done prior to the start of free agency. Brady and Manning's deals provide the perfect blueprint. Drew WILL GET HIS MONEY; but Drew is committed to winning and will work with the team, as he intimated today, to bring back Colston, Nicks, Meachem, and Porter. Drew's deal will average $18 million. I expect his first year cap number to be between $12-15 million.And I fully expect Nicks to be in black and gold next year. As Mike Triplett of the Times Picayune pointed out today, the Saints plan to re-sign all of its players. They believe in "homegrown" talent rather than spending big money on outsiders. Rarely do they bring in a player from the outside and give him big money. The other thing is that I think a lot of people are wrong in the assumption that paying Evans means not paying Nicks. The Saints have shown in the past that they are not afraid of tying up money at one position. They did this with Reggie Bush and Deuce McAllister who both had deals north of $50 million. They also did it with Charles Grant and Will Smith who had deals over $60 and $70 million, respectively. Lastly, the Saints believe in having strong play at the guard position. If you look at the rest of the offensive line, they have cheap players. Bushrod re-signed for a deal of $10 million total (not per season) last year. Strief is reasonably priced as is De La Puente. The Saints, therefore, can pay Evans and Nicks deals averaging $8+ million and that is exactly what will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theonenotthe2 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Bottom line, Nicks will be back with the Saints! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcon057 Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 You ought to listen more to G-Dawg; he actually knows of what he speak. A $25 million signing bonus does not equal a $25 million+ cap hit because the bonus is prorated over the life of the deal. Also, signing bonuses have been decreased in favor of guaranteed money. For example, Brady only received a $16 million signing bonus. Brees indicated today that he has been active in talks in the past and plans to be instrumental in future talks as he, MIckey Loomis, and Sean Payton plan to bring back ALL of their top free agents, including Nicks.Now, another point. The Saints WILL NOT give Drew $18 million and only have a $5 million cap hit as you have surmised. It is, however, not impossible as you have suggested. If the Saints gave Drew Brees a 6 year deal with an $18 million bonus and a first year base salary of $2 million, his cap hit would be exactly $5 million. This is not going to take place because the Saints can afford to pay him more than that even with the other free agents we have. But it is not a "no way" possible situation as you have depicted here.Jan. 20, 2012 4:41 p.m. - by Larry Holder - Brees 'realistic' not to think everybody can be kept, returnDrew Brees said his No. 1 priority with his contract is to keep the Saints together, but not even he can guarantee that: “Is it realistic to think we can keep absolutely everybody? I don’t know how realistic that is because every year on a team there’s turnover and I think that’s just the business we’re in.” Saints RapidReportsDoes he sound like he's giving up money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theonenotthe2 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Jan. 20, 2012 4:41 p.m. - by Larry Holder - Brees 'realistic' not to think everybody can be kept, returnDrew Brees said his No. 1 priority with his contract is to keep the Saints together, but not even he can guarantee that: “Is it realistic to think we can keep absolutely everybody? I don’t know how realistic that is because every year on a team there’s turnover and I think that’s just the business we’re in.” Saints RapidReportsDoes he sound like he's giving up money?No one said he's giving up money. I firmly believe Drew will get a deal that averages $18 million. What I do not expect, however, is for Drew to get a deal averaging in excess of $20+ million even though he very well could do so if he wanted.Also, Drew's right. Everyone will not be back on the team. But the Saints will re-sign their core players just as they have done each year. Last year, there was this same talk. And everyone the team wanted back they brought back. Drew said today that he expects their core guys back and will work with the team to bring them back. That's the Carl Nicks and Marques Colstons of the world. Now will guys like Aubrayo Franklin or Shaun Rogers or maybe even Robert Meachem be back? Well, that remains to be seen. But Nicks and Colston will be on the Saints roster next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Total Package Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Bottom line, Nicks will be back with the Saints!I know as a fan you really want to believe all that, but that is most likely not how it is going to go down.First, they will HAVE to franchise Brees. He IS your team and they can take zero chance of losing him. If they do not franchise him but instead rely on the goodwill between him and Peyton, as you suggest, the team loses alll leverage in negotiations. Drew would be able to use the threat of leaving to get whatever he wants in negotiations. If he is franchised, the team holds the leverage.By not working out a deal with Brees already, you will not be able to use the tag on Nicks or Colston, and one or both will be gone. That was a mistake by your front office- Drew could have been extended last offseason even.Not that you have the money for all those guys anyways. And if you cut Will, who will replace him? And are you really going to cut VIlma? He is the only decent linebacker you guys have. Edited January 21, 2012 by MeAndJulio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theonenotthe2 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I know as a fan you really want to believe all that, but that is most likely not how it is going to go down.First, they will HAVE to franchise Brees. He IS your team and they can take zero chance of losing him. If they do not franchise him but instead rely on the goodwill between him and Peyton, as you suggest, the team loses alll leverage in negotiations. Drew would be able to use the threat of leaving to get whatever he wants in negotiations. If he is franchised, the team holds the leverage.By not working out a deal with Brees already, you will not be able to use the tag on Nicks or Colston, and one or both will be gone. That was a mistake by your front office- Drew could have been extended last offseason even.Not that you have the money for all those guys anyways. And if you cut Will, who will replace him? And are you really going to cut VIlma? He is the only decent linebacker you guys have.I have expressed my thoughts on what I expect to happen. Falcons fans would love to see the Saints lose Nicks as it would decimate the team. Further, Falcons fans would love to add Nick as it would be icing on the cake. I do not foresee any of this happen and believe strongly that Nicks will be in a Saints uniform. Beyond that, there's no sense in debating this further. Save this post, remember my thoughts, and be prepared to eat crow when Nicks is still playing for the Saints next season and beyond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Total Package Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I have expressed my thoughts on what I expect to happen. Falcons fans would love to see the Saints lose Nicks as it would decimate the team. Further, Falcons fans would love to add Nick as it would be icing on the cake. I do not foresee any of this happen and believe strongly that Nicks will be in a Saints uniform. Beyond that, there's no sense in debating this further. Save this post, remember my thoughts, and be prepared to eat crow when Nicks is still playing for the Saints next season and beyond.I don't think losing Nicks would decimate the Saints. And I don't think the falcons would allocate that much money for a guard, although I would love to add him. It will just come down to whether the saints want to pay him or somebody else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theonenotthe2 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I don't think losing Nicks would decimate the Saints. And I don't think the falcons would allocate that much money for a guard, although I would love to add him. It will just come down to whether the saints want to pay him or somebody else.I think they want to pay him. After Brees, you can make the case that Nicks and Evans are the two most important players on the entire team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.L.A BOI Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I think they want to pay him. After Brees, you can make the case that Nicks and Evans are the two most important players on the entire team.This is true. And for those who think graham and sproles would want more money they are well compensated for there work and nobody wants to leave Drew! It's all good in saints ville lol. And as for Velma he's in the last part of his NFL life so he's willing to make it wrk with Bress and co. And we dnt screw our players they all get what they are worth ask More and PT. Our players are team first guys and the general idea of our players are they are system guys that dnt draw much on the open market we tend to put them out there and show Em we give Em fair market value. Colston won't be in high demand as y'all think. We love him but everyone else thinks he's not all that. I bet you guys think HD is better lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon Fanatic Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I want Mike Johnson to have a chance to win the guard spot. We gave up a third round pick for the guy and I believe he can with a full training camp under his belt with a new O line coach. Get Gaither to come in and compete against Svitek and let Baker go to free up some more cap space. Nicks will want a small fortune that we need elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulitik Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I want Mike Johnson to have a chance to win the guard spot. We gave up a third round pick for the guy and I believe he can with a full training camp under his belt with a new O line coach. Get Gaither to come in and compete against Svitek and let Baker go to free up some more cap space. Nicks will want a small fortune that we need elsewhere.Your avi made me spit water all over my desk.I hear what your saying, but if the line isn't fixed, TD and Smitty might lose their job. If anything was a point of emphasis in the Blank presser it was line play, and the only person to actually get fired was Paul Boudreau. He lectured TD about stats not meaning anything in front of everyone. If we go big in FA it will probably be spent on OL or DL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTCrunkler Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 problem was, we had a chance to get him in the draft, but we passed on him for filter reasons. The problem is we cant find it. We need all pro O-line. If you need to win in playoffs get a awesome All pro line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTCrunkler Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 it sounds like he knows that by loosing nicks, he will be loosing his pretty pocket protector. Jan. 20, 2012 4:41 p.m. - by Larry Holder - Brees 'realistic' not to think everybody can be kept, returnDrew Brees said his No. 1 priority with his contract is to keep the Saints together, but not even he can guarantee that: “Is it realistic to think we can keep absolutely everybody? I don’t know how realistic that is because every year on a team there’s turnover and I think that’s just the business we’re in.” Saints RapidReportsDoes he sound like he's giving up money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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