birdonawire Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I had the same thought just thinking out loud earlier today. Sign a true LT, move Clabo to RG, and let Baker, Svitek and Reynolds fight it out for the RT position. It saves money (one o-lineman rather than two), and we could use D-line help as well, plus we need to sign other FAs already on our team. We can also spend a 2nd rounder on an o-line pick if we wish, and where better to get a stud guard or center than in the 2nd round?I truely believe Mike Johnson will be the guy a RG and we can go after Gaither. Or sign Grubs for RG and Johnson becomes the LT, he can play any position on the line. Hawley will be the starter at C next year unless a good one is signed in FA then that would put Hawley back at RG and Johnson to LT. Johnson and Hawley are the key to the o-line changes because you would only have to sign one guy and keep cap space open for the defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBorBust Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I was not on the Gaither train up to this point. I have been reading up on his situation, why he was getting bounced around, etc...The guy has been a career fill-in for teams who had their franchise LT, but was injured, and always done a great job. The more I read, the more it makes sense. Even if he is a stop-gap between TRex and our next LT, he would be better than our current stop-gap Svitek.Get Gaither before we get Nicks. LT is a bigger need.I thought he's only been with the Ravens before this season. I know he didn't do too well in KC but played better in SD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muskokas finest © Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I'm pretty sure the Aints will slap him with the franchise tag b/4 letting him go. But if he did walk, TD better offer him the world. I don't care what he costs or what holes it creates elsewhere, especially on defense. An OG like Nicks will improve Ryan and Turner. Just do it!!!Talk about screwing yourself. The Saints make Jahri Evans the highest paid OG and then have that number used to set a price for Nicks....OUCH! The calculation # is also based on all O-line positions, not just OG. Probably around $11M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phattywankenobi Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 The Falcons won't find a quality LT in the late 2nd round. Any team with a good LT will not let him go. I'm not convined on Gaither but I will guarantee you he will end up with one of the highest contracts simply because he might be the best available. All too often that is how free agency works. The best player available may be a B level player but since he is the best available he will get paid as one of the best overall.I think people over look the importance of the guard position. It's difficult for a QB to move around in the pocket if the defense is already standing in it. The quickest route to the QB is through the A and B gaps protected by the guards. Also when Ryan goes for it on 4th and inches, it's not that Ryan is using improper technique or gee if he could only add 30 more pounds of fat. He needs more push from the center and guard positions.You can usually find a good guard in the 2nd round but which one and it does not seem like the Falcons have a good draft record on Oline guys. At least they have been trying to draft Oline guys nearly every year which is a big departure from the past decade. Carl Nicks is one of the best in the league and will improve the line tremendously. So use the 2nd round pick in a different area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHEC Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Jan. 17, 2012 12:21 p.m. - by Larry Holder - Report: Nicks expects to leave Saints All-Pro G Carl Nicks is expected to leave the Saints when free agency opens in March, ESPN reports. Nicks is expected to command one of the bigger contracts for a G in league history. It would be difficult for the Saints to carry two sizeable contracts for Gs with Jahri Evans, who signed the biggest contract for a G in league history two years ago. Saints RapidReports Carl Nicks has blossomed from a guard who dropped to the fifth round in 2008 to an All-Pro OL -- one of the best in the league at his position. The Saints would undoubtedly love him to return. The problem is that New Orleans paid fellow G Jahri Evans the richest contract for a guard in NFL history. Nicks will command more than Evans. Saints RapidReportsCould we use Abe money to sign him? can Sid and Mathews step up under Nolan?If we lose out on Abe, we need to try and get Mario Williams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-dawg Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 The Falcons won't find a quality LT in the late 2nd round. Any team with a good LT will not let him go. I think people over look the importance of the guard position. It's difficult for a QB to move around in the pocket if the defense is already standing in it. The quickest route to the QB is through the A and B gaps protected by the guards. Also when Ryan goes for it on 4th and inches, it's not that Ryan is using improper technique. He needs more push from the center and guard positions.You can usually find a good guard in the 2nd round but which one and it does not seem like the Falcons have a good draft record on Oline guys. Carl Nicks is one of the best in the league and will improve the line tremendously. So use the 2nd round pick in a different area.agree with what you said but here is the 2nd round guard: 3. Miami (OH) OG Brandon Brooks (6-5, 353) -- Brooks stood out immediately at the weigh-in, carrying his weight about as well as you can for a 353-pound specimen. He dominated practice all week due to his combination of power, balance, coordination and pop on his punch. He's a natural anchor player who can slide through contact and overwhelm in the run game. There isn't a ton of snap off the ball initially into contact, but he still looks like a starter at the next level to me. NFL Fits: Ravens, 49ers, Falcons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phattywankenobi Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 agree with what you said but here is the 2nd round guard: 3. Miami (OH) OG Brandon Brooks (6-5, 353) -- Brooks stood out immediately at the weigh-in, carrying his weight about as well as you can for a 353-pound specimen. He dominated practice all week due to his combination of power, balance, coordination and pop on his punch. He's a natural anchor player who can slide through contact and overwhelm in the run game. There isn't a ton of snap off the ball initially into contact, but he still looks like a starter at the next level to me.NFL Fits: Ravens, 49ers, Falcons I know it's hard not to be wowed this time of year on paper and self promoting highlights by some of the prospects but like any other year some of the can't miss guys flop when it comes to the NFL. Nicks is still young and in my opinion is the only one available that has already proven he is a can't miss prospect. I could be way off on this since the late 2nd round is generally where the guards, TE's and safeties get picked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vel Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 If Nicks leaves the Saints, I say "go get'em"........sure we will overpay but we can afford to. Falcons can extend Matt Ryan and lessen the cap him. Falcons can let Abe go and Michael Turner's money will only be on the books one more year. I think Falcons will be fine with the cap.Falcons need a new attitude on the Offensive Line and someone that can mash in the run game and keep pressure off Matt in the pass game - pressure up the middle is the worst thing that can happen to a QB because its hard to escape.Jared Gaither could still be signed to a friendly deal as well. I like this Brandon Brooks guy I just saw in the East-West Shrine game as another guard to develop who is LARGE and in CHARGE like Nicks.Funny how we have a change of heart on this situation. You said we had no chance at him and now you want him and I have cooled down on him.I'm pretty sure the Aints will slap him with the franchise tag b/4 letting him go. But if he did walk, TD better offer him the world. I don't care what he costs or what holes it creates elsewhere, especially on defense. An OG like Nicks will improve Ryan and Turner. Just do it!!!The Tag isn't just a free tag. It would be a double digit cap hit on the Saints. Brees will already be $15M to the cap in 2012. That leaves them with about $15M in room to sign Nicks, Porter, Colston, Meachem and others. The tag only brings back Nicks and nobody else. It will be really hard to keep that whole team together next year just like it will be difficult for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackredfellow Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I thought he's only been with the Ravens before this season. I know he didn't do too well in KC but played better in SD.From what I understand he came into KC too in shape, built like a TE, not to mention he got cut due to basically one bad false start in KC. He played nearly the same size, and played well, again in SD. He didnt give up a single sack in his first three starts, including against Suggs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackredfellow Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 The Tag isn't just a free tag. It would be a double digit cap hit on the Saints. Brees will already be $15M to the cap in 2012. That leaves them with about $15M in room to sign Nicks, Porter, Colston, Meachem and others. The tag only brings back Nicks and nobody else. It will be really hard to keep that whole team together next year just like it will be difficult for us. Exactly. It would not be wise for the Saints to tag him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlfanstckndenver Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I thought he's only been with the Ravens before this season. I know he didn't do too well in KC but played better in SD.The guy was thrown in for one play when KCs LT went down. On that one play he commited a false start. Then was cut later that day or the next day at the latest. Needless to say he didnt get much of a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-dawg Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Funny how we have a change of heart on this situation. You said we had no chance at him and now you want him and I have cooled down on him.The Tag isn't just a free tag. It would be a double digit cap hit on the Saints. Brees will already be $15M to the cap in 2012. That leaves them with about $15M in room to sign Nicks, Porter, Colston, Meachem and others. The tag only brings back Nicks and nobody else. It will be really hard to keep that whole team together next year just like it will be difficult for us.I still will be suprised if Saints don't figure out a way to keep Nicks. My point is simply, "if Nicks hits the market, let's get'em".This report does not say "who" thinks Falcons will not re-sign Nicks. If the source is Nicks agents/friends or if the source is someone from Saints organization.Carl Nicks nor his agent/handlers have no say in whether the Saints franchise him or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel City Falcon Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I want them to get Nicks..., but can they really afford to give him one of the biggest contracts for a OG in league history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-dawg Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 The Tag isn't just a free tag. It would be a double digit cap hit on the Saints. Brees will already be $15M to the cap in 2012. That leaves them with about $15M in room to sign Nicks, Porter, Colston, Meachem and others. The tag only brings back Nicks and nobody else. It will be really hard to keep that whole team together next year just like it will be difficult for us.vel, how do you know what Brees will count against the cap in 2012 since he is an UFA at this point. Obviously Brees will be re-signed, but it will probably be a HUGE signing bonus and small base salary. I would not be suprised if Brees "cap figure" for 2012 will be $10 million or less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-dawg Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I want them to get Nicks..., but can they really afford to give him one of the biggest contracts for a OG in league history.a better question might be, "Can the Falcons afford not to get Carl Nicks?".......Falcons will be a disaster if they don't afford Matt Ryan better protection this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vel Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 vel, how do you know what Brees will count against the cap in 2012 since he is an UFA at this point. Obviously Brees will be re-signed, but it will probably be a HUGE signing bonus and small base salary. I would not be suprised if Brees "cap figure" for 2012 will be $10 million or less.Because Manning and Brady's cap hits were $16M and $13M respectively, with Tom's jumping to $15M and $18M the next 3 years. Brees isn't getting any less than $15M. Phillip Rivers cap hit is $14M. I think Brees will be getting more than Rivers. I don't think Brees is going to be taking less than $10MM in any one season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFatboi Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 The problem is we cant find it.We need all pro O-line. If you need to win in playoffs get a awesome All pro line.Jaquizz Rogers, Corey Peters, Sidbury. We can find em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-dawg Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Because Manning and Brady's cap hits were $16M and $13M respectively, with Tom's jumping to $15M and $18M the next 3 years. Brees isn't getting any less than $15M. Phillip Rivers cap hit is $14M. I think Brees will be getting more than Rivers.I don't think Brees is going to be taking less than $10MM in any one season.cap hits and "average income" over the contract and guaranteed money are totally different things.Do you think Brees will care if he gets $60million guaranteed and a $25 million signing bonus - do you think he will care if his 2012 salary is less than whatever - $5 million? I don't think he cares - as long as his guaranteed money and signing bonus is large.my point is, Brees mostly wants his $$$$ but if there is a way to structure to help the Saints retain Nicks - i think he will do it - and I think his cap charge for 2012 could be significantly less than $15 million.I fully expect Brees to average about $18 million/season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattRyan2Canton Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 falcons can get a nice gaurd with their first pick i'm sure. that's the area i believe mckay got blalock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer2 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Funny how we have a change of heart on this situation. You said we had no chance at him and now you want him and I have cooled down on him.The Tag isn't just a free tag. It would be a double digit cap hit on the Saints. Brees will already be $15M to the cap in 2012. That leaves them with about $15M in room to sign Nicks, Porter, Colston, Meachem and others. The tag only brings back Nicks and nobody else. It will be really hard to keep that whole team together next year just like it will be difficult for us.I'm just saying, if they're using the tag, it will be on Nicks, even if it's to buy themselves time to negotiate a long term deal. No one else besides Brees is worth the tag and risk having to pay that player top 5 money. But regardless, if Nicks walks, back up the Brinks truck to his house. He and Blalock will protect the middle of the pocket and Svitek and Clabo are good enough to route the defender out wide like N.O. OT's do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falconsrus Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Jan. 17, 2012 12:21 p.m. - by Larry Holder - Report: Nicks expects to leave Saints All-Pro G Carl Nicks is expected to leave the Saints when free agency opens in March, ESPN reports. Nicks is expected to command one of the bigger contracts for a G in league history. It would be difficult for the Saints to carry two sizeable contracts for Gs with Jahri Evans, who signed the biggest contract for a G in league history two years ago. Saints RapidReports Carl Nicks has blossomed from a guard who dropped to the fifth round in 2008 to an All-Pro OL -- one of the best in the league at his position. The Saints would undoubtedly love him to return. The problem is that New Orleans paid fellow G Jahri Evans the richest contract for a guard in NFL history. Nicks will command more than Evans. Saints RapidReportsCould we use Abe money to sign him? can Sid and Mathews step up under Nolan?hel to the yes they can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer2 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 falcons can get a nice gaurd with their first pick i'm sure. that's the area i believe mckay got blalock.It's possible, but the probability is that a 2nd round pick will more than likely compete for a starting spot. Grant it Nicks is 10x more expensive, but guys like him don't come along very often. He's elite, hands down. And like I said b/4, I'll be shocked if he gets out of NO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vel Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 cap hits and "average income" over the contract and guaranteed money are totally different things.Do you think Brees will care if he gets $60million guaranteed and a $25 million signing bonus - do you think he will care if his 2012 salary is less than whatever - $5 million? I don't think he cares - as long as his guaranteed money and signing bonus is large.my point is, Brees mostly wants his $$$$ but if there is a way to structure to help the Saints retain Nicks - i think he will do it - and I think his cap charge for 2012 could be significantly less than $15 million.I fully expect Brees to average about $18 million/season.Yes they are differently things, but if you have small cap hit, you aren't getting paid. There is no way to give a guy $18M and have a $5M cap hit. Yes they are going to structure to make it as cheap as possible to bring back the most players, but there is no way around it with Brees. Like you said, you expect Brees to average around $18M a season. Over course it could be back loaded, but the guaranteed money prevents it from being too back loaded. Dunta's is a back loaded contract but he made $12M in the first year. What Brees makes will impact the cap. A $25M signing bonus will give him a $25M+ cap hit. Sorry but Brees will easily make the same kind of money as Brady and Manning. His cap hit will illustrate that. The only way for Brees to have a small initial cap hit is to take a small check home in 2012. I don't see that happening. They are going to reward Brees handsomely for rejuvenating that city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samtown7 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Funny how we have a change of heart on this situation. You said we had no chance at him and now you want him and I have cooled down on him.The Tag isn't just a free tag. It would be a double digit cap hit on the Saints. Brees will already be $15M to the cap in 2012. That leaves them with about $15M in room to sign Nicks, Porter, Colston, Meachem and others. The tag only brings back Nicks and nobody else. It will be really hard to keep that whole team together next year just like it will be difficult for us.I think because breesus is viewed as the "greatest" the deal will be more like 18 to 20.Just sayingAlso Nick's and breesus are not the only problems the saints have with the cap this year. Edited January 20, 2012 by samtown7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Even Bleed Red Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Bent Grimes is a very good corner, but Carl Nicks is a great guard. A guard is more important to the offense than a corner is to the defense. I'm not saying that the corner is unimportant, but if you have a choice between a very good corner, and a great guard, you always pick the guard. The only player that I wouldn't hesitate to pick up over Carl Nicks is Robert Mathis, because a consitent pass rush is just as important, if not more, than good pass protection. Nicks also brings fierce run blocking to the team, which is what we desperately need if our coach is gonna continue to trust our guys to pick up 4th and inches. The only other way I'm in favor of us keeping Brent Grimes over Carl Nicks is if Ben Grubs and Grimes come at a cheaper price.Why is everyone so high on Jaired Gaither? I'm sick of us targeting injured players, overpaying them, and then being disappointed/sad when they underperform. He was a solid starter, so he could be a good pick up. But there are options available at LT that could be safer and cheaper.Demetrius Bell (BUF) - OTD'Anthony Batiste (ARZ) - OTLevi Brown (ARZ) - OTBrandon Keith (ARZ) - OTMark LeVoir (BAL) - OTErik Pears (BUF) - OTAnthony Collins (CIN) - OTDennis Roland (CIN) - OTOniel Cousins (CLE) - OTArtis Hicks (CLE) - OTGuy Whimper (JAC) - OTJared Gaither (KC) - OTBarry Richardson (KC) - OTVernon Carey (MIA) - OTKareem McKenzie (NYG) - OTRobert Turner (NYJ) - OTKhalif Barnes (OAK) - OTStephon Heyer (OAK) - OTKing Dunlap (PHI) - OTTrai Essex (PIT) - OTMax Starks (PIT) - OTBreno Giacomini (SEA) - OTAdam Snyder (SF) - OTAdam Goldberg (STL) - OTJames Lee (TB) - OTMike Otto (TEN) - OT Edited January 20, 2012 by I Even Bleed Red Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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