Tootie Quivers Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I was reading through the “What Jags Fans Are Saying” thread and read something that got me thinking. What really is more important, the play calling/design or the players?It is a very intriguing question. It’s kind of a chicken or the egg question with maybe some actual evidence to support arguments. Though, I have done no research on this topic.My first thought was that, well if you don’t have the players then you cannot expect to have success. Which, I still believe. If your quarterback is limited in the types of throws they can make then you obviously can’t call plays that would require those types of throws often. But, assuming that your players are capable, then how important is the play calling and design?The more I think about it, the more I feel that the play calling is closer to fifty-fifty then I originally thought. I look at the Saints. For my money, Sean Payton is the best offensive mind in the NFL. That’s hard for me say as a 30 year Falcon fan, but I am trying to be objective. It always seems that the Saints get someone running free or in space. Some of that has to do with the Saints offensive line, sure, but the right play always seems to be called, especially when the play us.When I watch my Falcons, I don’t see that. Now, admittedly, I have never seen actual game film, I doubt very seriously that any of us have access the game film. Matt Ryan may be missing wide open guys all the time, but I don’t think that is the case. It would have likely been pointed out on the broadcast. All the plays that Julio made down the field this year he was covered up. That may be on Julio but I think he is a talented as anyone the Saints have. Roddy and Tony are always have to block out the defender. I really feel that is more on play design. That’s why you don’t see big yards after the catch numbers with the Falcons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl927 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) I was reading through the "What Jags Fans Are Saying" thread and read something that got me thinking. What really is more important, the play calling/design or the players?It is a very intriguing question. It's kind of a chicken or the egg question with maybe some actual evidence to support arguments. Though, I have done no research on this topic.My first thought was that, well if you don't have the players then you cannot expect to have success. Which, I still believe. If your quarterback is limited in the types of throws they can make then you obviously can't call plays that would require those types of throws often. But, assuming that your players are capable, then how important is the play calling and design?The more I think about it, the more I feel that the play calling is closer to fifty-fifty then I originally thought. I look at the Saints. For my money, Sean Payton is the best offensive mind in the NFL. That's hard for me say as a 30 year Falcon fan, but I am trying to be objective. It always seems that the Saints get someone running free or in space. Some of that has to do with the Saints offensive line, sure, but the right play always seems to be called, especially when the play us.When I watch my Falcons, I don't see that. Now, admittedly, I have never seen actual game film, I doubt very seriously that any of us have access the game film. Matt Ryan may be missing wide open guys all the time, but I don't think that is the case. It would have likely been pointed out on the broadcast. All the plays that Julio made down the field this year he was covered up. That may be on Julio but I think he is a talented as anyone the Saints have. Roddy and Tony are always have to block out the defender. I really feel that is more on play design. That's why you don't see big yards after the catch numbers with the Falcons.It's protection, and faith. Brees keeps looking for that shot. The receivers keep running to space when their original routes fail. Eventually Brees finds them. It opens the running game. They do what they do. It doesn't always work. Edited January 16, 2012 by Carl927 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Play calling is the begin all and end all. No QB doesn't decide the playbook nor the gameplan if they will pass 70% of the game or 1%.The experience coach knows the routes and what teams are doing to defend it and how to change it if its not working.1 thing is though. Timing routes or touch passes. They are always 1 sec away from making the qb look dumb. So its easy to always get on the QB and say why is he throwing it high all the time. If the route was designed to be a tall wr go up and get it play. If that wr doesn't go up and get it, the QB looks dumb. Or if the ball is thrown low just to get the first on a safe pass than the wr just can hold onto. Those passes reflect the QB.The coach though makes the plays and may work side by side with the QB in adding or modifying plays. But in the end if coaching sucks, they could get a QB killed. A good coach will find things that work for that QB and will play against what the D is likely to do.ex: cam. no off season really, gets drafted and the Coaching staff turned him lose with plays they thought he could handle and let him go with it. But they could have easily just handed the ball off 90% of the game and made cam look second rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis York Morgan Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 It's a combination of both, obviously, but when you're absolutely awful in one phase, it's impossible to overcome that ineptitude with the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Doktor Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 It's both. If you have Barry Sanders and Jerry Rice, you might be able to draw plays in the dirt. But a scheme, and effective play calling allows players to use their talents. An offensive scheme utilizes the strengths of its players, not set them up to fail. I don't believe we used our weapons. We pounded the ball, and used high percentage passes. We never used the middle of the field. Never got our backs into space to run, or gave our wideouts a shot at being creative in space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atljbo Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I think both are important.. Thats when you have the potent offenses.... I beleive the players are the most important part....If a coach doesnt have talent.. What can he coach.... But i beleieve A great play caller takes a good situation/good players and turn it to great with the right scheme and playcalling.Like Vick said.. Any Reids scheme/coaching has taken him to that next level.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madman88 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I was reading through the “What Jags Fans Are Saying” thread and read something that got me thinking. What really is more important, the play calling/design or the players?It is a very intriguing question. It’s kind of a chicken or the egg question with maybe some actual evidence to support arguments. Though, I have done no research on this topic.My first thought was that, well if you don’t have the players then you cannot expect to have success. Which, I still believe. If your quarterback is limited in the types of throws they can make then you obviously can’t call plays that would require those types of throws often. But, assuming that your players are capable, then how important is the play calling and design?The more I think about it, the more I feel that the play calling is closer to fifty-fifty then I originally thought. I look at the Saints. For my money, Sean Payton is the best offensive mind in the NFL. That’s hard for me say as a 30 year Falcon fan, but I am trying to be objective. It always seems that the Saints get someone running free or in space. Some of that has to do with the Saints offensive line, sure, but the right play always seems to be called, especially when the play us.When I watch my Falcons, I don’t see that. Now, admittedly, I have never seen actual game film, I doubt very seriously that any of us have access the game film. Matt Ryan may be missing wide open guys all the time, but I don’t think that is the case. It would have likely been pointed out on the broadcast. All the plays that Julio made down the field this year he was covered up. That may be on Julio but I think he is a talented as anyone the Saints have. Roddy and Tony are always have to block out the defender. I really feel that is more on play design. That’s why you don’t see big yards after the catch numbers with the Falcons. Yep... Its more 50/50. The coachs can put u in the right position but you gotta do your job and exicute it.... I like how u think deeper then just wats on the surface... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzummo Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 It's a 50/50 split between coaching and players. Bad and/or predictable playcalling can make it difficult on the players. The limitations of your players also limit your playcalling. Football is the ultimate team sport and every player and coach relies on every other player and coach. I don't know how well Koettler is going to do in Atl, but I do think he has a lot more talent on the offensive side than he did in Jacksonville. If we can fix our OL, we could be pleasantly surprised by him. If we do not fix our OL, he'll get dragged through the mud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tootie Quivers Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Pretty good thoughts here...makes me think Mularkey is great when we were young and inexperienced, but hampered us as we got older. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vel Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 It's a combination of both, obviously, but when you're absolutely awful in one phase, it's impossible to overcome that ineptitude with the other.Exactly. Payton could trot us out there for his offense and it would look like sh*t. We could create an offense together and put the dream team in it and it wouldn't work. That's why I give Koetter BOTD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tootie Quivers Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Exactly. Payton could trot us out there for his offense and it would look like sh*t. We could create an offense together and put the dream team in it and it wouldn't work. That's why I give Koetter BOTDI do disagree with that. I believe Payton would work wonders with our players. What had Drew Brees done before he worked with Payton? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vel Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I do disagree with that. I believe Payton would work wonders with our players. What had Drew Brees done before he worked with Payton?No when I say us, I mean the board. FalconsLIFE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tootie Quivers Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 No when I say us, I mean the board. FalconsLIFEHaHa...I was like we didn't look like "crap" with Mularkey (no pun intended), Payton would surely do better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorCal1968 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 There's just no doubt that we have some of the best offensive talent in the league, but that we completely and utterly UNDERPERFORMED this year-- by any reasonable expectation. DId Ryan miss some throws and lack killer instinct? Did Roddy drop far too many passes? Did the O-Line run block poorly? The answers are all YES. But generally we have exceptional talent on that side of the ball-- some of the best, if not the best, the team has ever had in it's entire existence. This year the PLAYS are more to blame than the PLAYERS for how the season ended IMO, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shockerfalcon Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Interesting topic and I agree its 50/50. Imo the seemingly lack of effort and enthusiasm displayed by the players was their frustration with the conservative approach. I bet they were in the huddle and as matt is calling another turner dive like "come on man again" . As competitive as players are how can you reasonably expect them to get up for every play when you are asking them to run the same 6-7 plays every drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vel Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 HaHa...I was like we didn't look like "crap" with Mularkey (no pun intended), Payton would surely do better.Lol I mean I know it's extreme but it's essentially the same. Those guys are barely better than a D2 School. No talent and the little talent was either on IR or in MJD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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