How Many Of You Guys Actually Understand The Defense Scheme Were Trying To Run?

[Peyton]

reg season games arent meaningless if they amount to a sb win.

if you arent the last one standing then every other win beforehand can be seen as a moral victory IMO.

i guess its a character flaw of mine that i mostly deal in absolutes. in this case, your either a super bowl winner or youre not. nothing else matters.

So...what you are saying...is that the entire existence of the Atlanta Falcons franchise has been meaningless.

Interesting.

[Cavy]

So...what you are saying...is that the entire existence of the Atlanta Falcons franchise has been meaningless.

Interesting.

meaningless may have been the wrong word, but essentially yes. this franchise hasnt done anything other than a sb appearance and some playoff wins. that's my measure of a successful team. it may be different for you, which is fine, but it isnt for me. based on my idea, ive picked the wrong team to support. but i chose to be a falcons fan, till death. nothing will change that, no matter how mediocre we are. Edited December 29, 2011 by Chi City Falcon

[Trouble]

meaningless may have been the wrong word, but essentially yes. this franchise hasnt done anything other than a sb appearance and some playoff wins.

I dunno the falcons went from the toilet bowl jokes of the NFL after the face of the franchise went to prison, to being relevant and getting some respect. No easy task by any means for a team with the history of being the easy win for their opponents.

edit: ex: i would rather make the playoffs every year and lose than lose every game all year long for a couple years and be like the lions.

Edited December 29, 2011 by danight

[Cavy]

I dunno the falcons went from the toilet bowl jokes of the NFL after the face of the franchise went to prison, to being relevant and getting some respect. No easy task by any means for a team with the history of being the easy win for their opponents.

edit: ex: i would rather make the playoffs every year and lose than lose every game all year long for a couple years and be like the lions.

of course, id prefer the same thing, but from the first snap of the season to the last, the goal is to win a sb. if you dont reach that goal, you fail. again, it may be a character flaw of mine that i deal in absolutes, for the most part. its not that i dont get what you(and folks like you) are saying. im just trying to state my point of view.

10-6 and 6-10 are the same to me in the end if they dont end in championships. only difference is, the 10-6 finish gives more hope for next year.

[Bring It]

I understand it doesnt work.

Thats all that matters.

Buy this man a cigar !!

Post of the Day !!

[Peyton]

meaningless may have been the wrong word, but essentially yes. this franchise hasnt done anything other than a sb appearance and some playoff wins. that's my measure of a successful team. it may be different for you, which is fine, but it isnt for me. based on my idea, ive picked the wrong team to support. but i chose to be a falcons fan, till death. nothing will change that, no matter how mediocre we are.

I recognize there are people that think 3-13 is just as good as going 11-5 and making the playoffs.

You are right, I'm not one of those people. I enjoy the wins. Even the crappy regular season wins.

[Cavy]

I recognize there are people that think 3-13 is just as good as going 11-5 and making the playoffs.

You are right, I'm not one of those people. I enjoy the wins. Even the crappy regular season wins.

like i said above, ultimately (TO ME) 3-13 and 13-3 are almost the same if it doesnt amount to a championship, the difference being that 13-3 gives more hope for the future.

to ask which would i prefer to watch, 13-3 or 3-13, would be a stupid question to ask anybody.

i'm not saying i dont enjoy the wins, because if i didnt i wouldnt even watch, but from an ultimate goal standpoint, they dont mean anything if you cant bring it all home. its just more fodder for fans and the record books.

[ukfalc]

I understand when we where in the West we faced Jerry Rice and company and we had Jerry Glandville and we would send the house if we couldn't get pressure. Man up and go for it.

Its to late in the game for a drastic change. But no excuse why we cant mix and match packages.

That's the thing. If you start the game bringing 4 after the QB and dropping 7 into a soft coverage and it isnlt working, then change up what you are doing during the game.

Mix in some cover 1, bring additional pressure, play man coverage, play some bump and run. Change up what you are doing, to try to find something that works.

There are times where we look like we decide on an approach, and we will stick rigidly to it no matter what - even if that means being torched all game. We look like a team that doesn't have a plan B, plan C and plan D.

[A-TowN.-]

A zone D strives on a relentless front four which we don't have. So we get toasted and justify it buy saying we are Bend But Don't Break. I'm sorry but BBDB sucks, why even bend at all? Don't let them get any yards at all. Why is it okay to let them rack up yards but hold them in the redzone? Don't let them get to the redzone period. This scheme is set up for failure right now

[root down]

I know RESULTS.

I see other D's succeed.

eye test.

I don't care what the DC says in meetings, what drills they run, if he wears dresses at night or consults a bullfrog for gameplans. I WANT results, not "best intentions"

This ish, isn't working....PERIOD.

[Peyton]

I know RESULTS.

I see other D's succeed.

eye test.

I don't care what the DC says in meetings, what drills they run, if he wears dresses at night or consults a bullfrog for gameplans. I WANT results, not "best intentions"

This ish, isn't working....PERIOD.

Which defense wrote the script for slowing down the Saints in New Orleans this year?

[PapaJoe]

I recognize there are people that think 3-13 is just as good as going 11-5 and making the playoffs.

You are right, I'm not one of those people. I enjoy the wins. Even the crappy regular season wins.

I enjoy the wins; not so much "enjoy" the crappy wins tho' as mush as just accept them.

The difference is this tho' >> I believe it has become "characteristic" of the Falcons to have good (2011 and 2009) to great (2010 and 2008) regular seasons only to CONSISTENTLY get totally dominated in almost every phase of play and coaching in most of the four seasons, in the "big games" against widely recognized premier teams/coaches, and to sum it up... they get their head AND their arse handed to them on silver platters on the big stage every time... without so much as even attempting to knock the opponents 'johnson-in-the-dirt' at all. Ever.

I hate MMs offense; have for 3 seasons now. But i hate his situational awareness and playcalling even worse. He stinks.

I hate BVGs softzone defense. It only works to get Falcons beat by great QBs, or make average QBs look elite.

"and btw... if you're going to give up BIG plays to EVERY TEAM like we do playing softzone, then why not just go Man and Blitz half the time or more with 5 to 6 guys??? Trust me on this one... you show teams you're going to send 5 and 6 guys a lot of the time and knock their QB in the dirt... they'll start adjusting WHAT THEY DO on offense to compensate.

[lee sunset]

Have to admit that was like reading Britney Spears is a great singer.

Are you saying DeCoud is lip-synching his coverage?

[root down]

so, your "defense" is...."If it hasn't been done yet, than it can't be done." really? If someone else doesn't show our DC the way first, then he has no shot?

By the way, the blueprint for facing an elite QB has been laid out there. Many times. How about KC vs Packers. Patriots Vs Colts. Steelers vs...take your pick, Ravens vs take your pick. They DO, jam the WR and disrupt the timing, which buys more time to get to the QB. They DON'T sit back in predictable zones and let the QB pick them apart. Rodney Harrison has said it on Sun. football many times when asked how to slow down elite QB's. Like when the Pats where on their undefeated streak, Harrison explained the whole can't sit back in zones concept.

[Peyton]

I enjoy the wins; not so much "enjoy" the crappy wins tho' as mush as just accept them.

The difference is this tho' >> I believe it has become "characteristic" of the Falcons to have good (2011 and 2009) to great (2010 and 2008) regular seasons only to CONSISTENTLY get totally dominated in almost every phase of play and coaching in most of the four seasons, in the "big games" against widely recognized premier teams/coaches, and to sum it up... they get their head AND their arse handed to them on silver platters on the big stage every time... without so much as even attempting to knock the opponents 'johnson-in-the-dirt' at all. Ever.

I hate MMs offense; have for 3 seasons now. But i hate his situational awareness and playcalling even worse. He stinks.

I hate BVGs softzone defense. It only works to get Falcons beat by great QBs, or make average QBs look elite.

"and btw... if you're going to give up BIG plays to EVERY TEAM like we do playing softzone, then why not just go Man and Blitz half the time or more with 5 to 6 guys??? Trust me on this one... you show teams you're going to send 5 and 6 guys a lot of the time and knock their QB in the dirt... they'll start adjusting WHAT THEY DO on offense to compensate.

That's just revisionist history. In 2008, the Falcons beat 3 division winners, including two on the road, and last year, the Falcons beat the Saints, Ravens, and Packers. In 2009 the Falcons beat the Jets on the road, who went on to win two road playoff games and play in the AFC Championship games.

Some people have this disease where they only remember games against good competition when the Falcons lose.

I guess people only

[Peyton]

so, your "defense" is...."If it hasn't been done yet, than it can't be done." really? If someone else doesn't show our DC the way first, then he has no shot?

By the way, the blueprint for facing an elite QB has been laid out there. Many times. How about KC vs Packers. Patriots Vs Colts. Steelers vs...take your pick, Ravens vs take your pick. They DO, jam the WR and disrupt the timing, which buys more time to get to the QB. They DON'T sit back in predictable zones and let the QB pick them apart. Rodney Harrison has said it on Sun. football many times when asked how to slow down elite QB's. Like when the Pats where on their undefeated streak, Harrison explained the whole can't sit back in zones concept.

No...it was just a question. I wanted to know, who in your opinion, did the best job of slowing down the New Orleans Saints in their own building this year. If you have an opinion on that.

Who "succeeded" in New Orleans this year. Anyone?

[Guest JoeSr]

It doesn't matter whether or not the fans understand the Tampa 2.....regardless of the defensive strategy you employ if it isn't consistently working it isn't working.

The Falcons D can't get off of the field on 3rd down. It doesn't matter if it's 3rd and 2 or 3rd and 22. The opponent is converting....

As someone who does "understand the scheme we're trying to run" I can confidently say that a fundamental mismatch of our talent and scheme is Lofton's responsibility on passing downs. In our version (like most versions) of the Tampa 2 Lofton has a coverage responsibility that covers the deep part of the initial zone (before the receiver gets into the safeties-CB zone responsibility area). Lofton doesn't have the speed or the fluidity in his hips to hang with those receivers. It is but one reason you see so many 3rd and longs completed against the Falcons in the middle of the field.

Bingo! I also have an understanding of our specific scheme. This is indeed one of our MAJOR issues with getting off the field on 3rd and longs. This problem is not something that can be coached, though. Either you have the speed and agility, or you dont. There is no coaching speed and agility. This is one of the reasons why you adapt your scheme and philosophy to suit your unit as a whole.

[ol'_dirty2]

He absolutely HAS to frame the defense around his players. This is his responsibility as the DC. If you can't do one thing well then you need to try another. It's on him to make adjustments to become successful.

[Guest JoeSr]

HOWEVER, let it be known I have no issue with our scheme. I actually LOVE it and I admire and like BVG. With this being said, I feel we have an adamant coaching staff. I understand this; they have earned the right to be this way. Albeit, there are two things I see that will greatly improve our performance against the great to elite teams: less stubbornness on the part of our coaching staff and fixing both our lines. We rectify these two things. . . .WATCH OUT!

[madman88]

like i said above, ultimately (TO ME) 3-13 and 13-3 are almost the same if it doesnt amount to a championship, the difference being that 13-3 gives more hope for the future.

to ask which would i prefer to watch, 13-3 or 3-13, would be a stupid question to ask anybody.

i'm not saying i dont enjoy the wins, because if i didnt i wouldnt even watch, but from an ultimate goal standpoint, they dont mean anything if you cant bring it all home. its just more fodder for fans and the record books.

theres a big difference in 3-13 and 13-3, theres no similarites at all about it... if your 3-13 you probably knew going into the season your goals wernt to win it all... you really think the colts thought they were going to win the SB this year? but i bet you that 13-3 colts did...

i dnt see any similarties to it IMO

[Guest JoeSr]

IF no one sees a HUGE difference between 13 - 3 and 3 - 13 because said named team did not win the SB, they need to see a phsychiatrist. Going 18 - 0 does not guarantee a win in the SB, much less 13 - 3. You are on something worst than crack, cocaine, opium, and meth combined if you think this.

[Javader09]

Instead of just saying fire somebody look and see if you are giving the BVG what he needs to run his scheme. When you look at our scheme most of the guys that really fit the scheme (the colts style tapma 2 scheme) are having big years.Grimes is a true zone CB because of his ball skills and the same can be said about William More Then Thomas Decoud he's a good tackler and is soild in coverage those guys all fit well and Daunta Robinson is more of a press man to man CB not a zone CB but still a soild player. Then to the LB's what we look for is guys who have great speed,can cover and tackle and more than likely a pro type of player at these spots is needed here to run these scheme and we have two of them with lofton and weatherspoon and there great fits for our defense scheme. Now as for the defense line this is where we need a big time player to make the scheme work. And as good as John Abraham is he's not nearly as good as he once was but still a good player elite somedays and average on others and the same can be said about babs as well a good productive player but not an elite level DT. Now on to Peters who was having a big year but has slowed down sense and again a good fit but he's not even really a good player more of a soild player and more of a run stopper and is doing what the falcons need him to do.Then you have Sidbury and Edwards along with Beirman and again all good players but not elite passrusher's. (I think Sidbury could be with more playing time but who knows) Now with that being said lets say you put a Julius Pepers,JJP,Aldon Smith,Dewight Freeney,Mario Williams ,Clay Mathews,Jared Allen,Von Miller,T Sizzle on our team in place of Abrahm and all those guys can have a bad day and still effect an offense on the amount of attention they draw. And Abraham's that guy for us but he's not getting doubled or tripled teamed as much any more and he's just not producing when singled up and when the last time he showed up in a playoff or prime time game Because I can't remeber.

Basicly I'm saying we need one player because Pass rushing is what makes this defense go the scheme is to get pressure with speedy guys on the outside wile only rushing four and when you play a zone like that that means there's 6 to 7 guys waiting to make a play on the ball if its a pass and ready to run to the ball if its a run. And we have gotten a good amount of ints over the last two season and thats what the scheme is design to do. But its hard to run this scheme with out the main peace An elite Pass Rusher. Its like trying to run a 3-4 with out a NT maybe the most important part of a 3-4 defense.

Now if you guys just aren't happy with the DL not getting pessure and saying its the scheme (which its not)then a qick fix would be to go get that elite pass rusher (the closest player would be Robert Mathias) or switch to a 3-4 which you can get pressure by "scheming". Because it very hard to block two DE/OLB's and three DT's and mixing in bilitz's but we would need to probably get a solid to good CB and a NT it the draft. If we could land Janoris Jenkins and either sign or draft a big body to play the NT spot then I could see it happing but the draft is a long ways away and knowbody knows who going were or who going to fall rise and all that.

At the end of the day I think its just as much on Mike Smith who himself is a defense minded coach and BVG because these guys keep runing the same scheme when they don't have the right personal to run it. They need to blitiz a lot more and play more man to man which then would allow them to blitiz. But hey if they don't figure it out in about a week in half then they could find themselfs jobless which may be for the good.

if we do not have the correct personnel to run the scheme, then change it. a square peg does not fit in a round hole.

[TeamPlayer1]

Which defense wrote the script for slowing down the Saints in New Orleans this year?

St. Louis shut the Saints down because they put heat on Brees and he had less time for the route tree to develop and he took sacks. Bingo!

[Peyton]

St. Louis shut the Saints down because they put heat on Brees and he had less time for the route tree to develop and he took sacks. Bingo!

That was in St. Louis. New Orleans is a completely different team at home.

Really....it was a fluke game.

[cannonballsghost]

Are you saying DeCoud is lip-synching his coverage?

what coverage ?