How Many Of You Guys Actually Understand The Defense Scheme Were Trying To Run?

[THE ICEMAN]

Instead of just saying fire somebody look and see if you are giving the BVG what he needs to run his scheme. When you look at our scheme most of the guys that really fit the scheme (the colts style tapma 2 scheme) are having big years.Grimes is a true zone CB because of his ball skills and the same can be said about William More Then Thomas Decoud he's a good tackler and is soild in coverage those guys all fit well and Daunta Robinson is more of a press man to man CB not a zone CB but still a soild player. Then to the LB's what we look for is guys who have great speed,can cover and tackle and more than likely a pro type of player at these spots is needed here to run these scheme and we have two of them with lofton and weatherspoon and there great fits for our defense scheme. Now as for the defense line this is where we need a big time player to make the scheme work. And as good as John Abraham is he's not nearly as good as he once was but still a good player elite somedays and average on others and the same can be said about babs as well a good productive player but not an elite level DT. Now on to Peters who was having a big year but has slowed down sense and again a good fit but he's not even really a good player more of a soild player and more of a run stopper and is doing what the falcons need him to do.Then you have Sidbury and Edwards along with Beirman and again all good players but not elite passrusher's. (I think Sidbury could be with more playing time but who knows) Now with that being said lets say you put a Julius Pepers,JJP,Aldon Smith,Dewight Freeney,Mario Williams ,Clay Mathews,Jared Allen,Von Miller,T Sizzle on our team in place of Abrahm and all those guys can have a bad day and still effect an offense on the amount of attention they draw. And Abraham's that guy for us but he's not getting doubled or tripled teamed as much any more and he's just not producing when singled up and when the last time he showed up in a playoff or prime time game Because I can't remeber.

Basicly I'm saying we need one player because Pass rushing is what makes this defense go the scheme is to get pressure with speedy guys on the outside wile only rushing four and when you play a zone like that that means there's 6 to 7 guys waiting to make a play on the ball if its a pass and ready to run to the ball if its a run. And we have gotten a good amount of ints over the last two season and thats what the scheme is design to do. But its hard to run this scheme with out the main peace An elite Pass Rusher. Its like trying to run a 3-4 with out a NT maybe the most important part of a 3-4 defense.

Now if you guys just aren't happy with the DL not getting pessure and saying its the scheme (which its not)then a qick fix would be to go get that elite pass rusher (the closest player would be Robert Mathias) or switch to a 3-4 which you can get pressure by "scheming". Because it very hard to block two DE/OLB's and three DT's and mixing in bilitz's but we would need to probably get a solid to good CB and a NT it the draft. If we could land Janoris Jenkins and either sign or draft a big body to play the NT spot then I could see it happing but the draft is a long ways away and knowbody knows who going were or who going to fall rise and all that.

At the end of the day I think its just as much on Mike Smith who himself is a defense minded coach and BVG because these guys keep runing the same scheme when they don't have the right personal to run it. They need to blitiz a lot more and play more man to man which then would allow them to blitiz. But hey if they don't figure it out in about a week in half then they could find themselfs jobless which may be for the good.

[RYNE]

Never... its the worst in the league. Ive been saying it for four years

[NOVAFalconFan]

Personally, I worry more about how many members of our secondary understand the type of scheme we are trying to run...

[NateDogg1215]

does it matter we stink at whatever it is, lets try something else. we made Tavaris Jackson and TJ Yates look like All Pros.

Edited December 29, 2011 by NateDogg1215

[Trouble]

What do we need to understand besides? No pressure, no sacks, no turnovers, getting burned and blown out.

Doesn't matter what style your "trying to run" its not working.

[Tribal Chief]

Does he have any say so about the players brought in to run his scheme? Does he understand that if the base scheme isn't working then he should try something else and see if his players can adapt? Does he know how to draw up a successful blitz play? He should take a look at what the how the Saints and Bears played us. They had a similar defensive gameplan and they pretty much shut us down at all phases. Although Ryan put up 370+ yards, we only got 1 TD. How often does that happen

[norbendon]

I understand where you're coming from and agree that the defensive line is a definate issue. What I'm not a fan of, is the passive type scheme. Even you pointed out at the end that we need to make up for this personell issue by blitzing and running more (any at all) man to man coverage, but they refuse to do so and that's where I have a problem. I feel that if you're gonna give up yards and point points, it's better to do it being aggressive and attacking than sitting back and letting it happen to you.

[Guest Gritz]

It doesn't matter whether or not the fans understand the Tampa 2.....regardless of the defensive strategy you employ if it isn't consistently working it isn't working.

The Falcons D can't get off of the field on 3rd down. It doesn't matter if it's 3rd and 2 or 3rd and 22. The opponent is converting....

As someone who does "understand the scheme we're trying to run" I can confidently say that a fundamental mismatch of our talent and scheme is Lofton's responsibility on passing downs. In our version (like most versions) of the Tampa 2 Lofton has a coverage responsibility that covers the deep part of the initial zone (before the receiver gets into the safeties-CB zone responsibility area). Lofton doesn't have the speed or the fluidity in his hips to hang with those receivers. It is but one reason you see so many 3rd and longs completed against the Falcons in the middle of the field.

[Magic Man]

If I employ a highly successful financial strategy, but it's for someone making 7 figues a year (which I am not [yet]), and it doesn't work, then I have to change to something that fits what I have. In other words, if the defense isn't working, due to the personnel we have, then we must adjust to something that fits, what we have. Unfortunately, this fundamental concept is eluding our coaching staff.

[Aftermath]

If he doesnt have the personnel to fit his scheme he needs to alter the scheme, he seems determined to keep ramming a square peg into a round hole. Granted, TD shouldn't have went out and grabbed these pieces that didn't fit BVG's scheme in the first place, especially if he knew that molestache would be unwilling to fit the scheme to the personnel, but it is what it is now, we have the players that we have and BVG can either tweak his scheme a bit to play to their strengths or he can hope that TD & Co decide to blow up the definse and give him what he needs to run an effective tampa 2.

[Club212]

Having 11 days off to study for one of the biggest games of the season in the spotlight, you would expect a lot from our "D". I keep saying, I hope I'm wrong but when it comes to 3rd down, I want to bury my head so I don't see the results. This guy BVClueless has NO answers, PERIOD! Every prodcast the commentaters say the same thing, Smitty said the same, its the "D" that is the problem, Smitty has to cut ties, call the "D" plays, & send BVClueless back to college! If I was BVC, I would quit, it's JUST NOT WORKING!

[jstammer]

"Geee, I'm trying to drive my car across a lake and every time I do, it fills with water and sinks. Why do people laugh at me and complain? They should try to understand what it is that I am trying to do, instead of complaining that it cannot be done. Just wait, some day I'll have the right pontoons on my car and I'll finally make it across the lake."

Brian Van Goofball

[TeamPlayer1]

It doesn't matter whether or not the fans understand the Tampa 2.....regardless of the defensive strategy you employ if it isn't consistently working it isn't working.

The Falcons D can't get off of the field on 3rd down. It doesn't matter if it's 3rd and 2 or 3rd and 22. The opponent is converting....

As someone who does "understand the scheme we're trying to run" I can confidently say that a fundamental mismatch of our talent and scheme is Lofton's responsibility on passing downs. In our version (like most versions) of the Tampa 2 Lofton has a coverage responsibility that covers the deep part of the initial zone (before the receiver gets into the safeties-CB zone responsibility area). Lofton doesn't have the speed or the fluidity in his hips to hang with those receivers. It is but one reason you see so many 3rd and longs completed against the Falcons in the middle of the field.

It doesn't matter whether or not the fans understand the Tampa 2.....regardless of the defensive strategy you employ if it isn't consistently working it isn't working.

The Falcons D can't get off of the field on 3rd down. It doesn't matter if it's 3rd and 2 or 3rd and 22. The opponent is converting....

As someone who does "understand the scheme we're trying to run" I can confidently say that a fundamental mismatch of our talent and scheme is Lofton's responsibility on passing downs. In our version (like most versions) of the Tampa 2 Lofton has a coverage responsibility that covers the deep part of the initial zone (before the receiver gets into the safeties-CB zone responsibility area). Lofton doesn't have the speed or the fluidity in his hips to hang with those receivers. It is but one reason you see so many 3rd and longs completed against the Falcons in the middle of the field.

One reason I see is that without pressure on the QB, someone like Brees will rip any secondary to shreds. Putting a stop watch on the time the ball is snapped and the QB gets the pass out is revealing.

I only had time this morning to look at the Falcons 1st 2 scoring drives and the Saints 1st drive for a touchdown. I was shocked! Ryan consistently got the ball away in 2 seconds on the drive for a field goal and was similar on the td series except he had 3 seconds on the throw to JJ down the middle and was able to step up and fire a strike.

On the Saints drive Brees had a minimum of 4 seconds, up to almost 5 seconds and only took less when he was hitting Graham on the quick 1st down and only took 1 second.

If our DB's had the luxury of just having a 2 second clock in their heads the defense would be fine.

[blahblahblah24]

i quit reading after you said decoud is solid in coverage

[madman88]

im only going to say that after 4 years you cnt fix your 3rd down efficency and stop pppl from pasing then its time to let someone else try... BVG is every bit to blame for this, grimey isnt just a zone CB(which doesnt exist by the way) grimey can man up with anyone, and dunta is better suited to play man then zone...

we play cover two cause is conservative and it a bend but dnt break type of defense that is designed to make/hope the offense makes a mistake.... thats it, thats all it is... make a offense go the length of the field and score... but the problem with that is we STILL give up big plays, anyone remember the infamous 3 and15??? we saw it again monday night, 3 and 8, 3and 12, 3and 18, all converted, are u kidding me? even gruden was sayin BVG is in a predicatabl soft coverage...

like i said if you cnt fix a problem in 4 years then you had long enough, some ppl dnt even get that long, so for him to have this long should be all the proof you need to see that this guy need to be replaced.... i mean to get drug up and down the field playing double zone to stop the pass thats not being stopped, common sense should come in and say, hey lets TRY something else... u kno like ''adjust'' to wat is going on, play some dam man, instead of relying on your Safites to pick up on a WR 25 yards down the field, but nope, same ol thing... lets get someone who has the nerves(balls) to play agressive...

[kiwifalcon]

I mentioned this in a thread yesteday soft zone isn't the problem lack of consistent pass pressure is how can BVG dial that up when Babs Ray Abe and Peters got handled by there opposites and hence why the soft zone gets picked apart.I'm afraid more than the scheme being the problem if you look at the tape and have a look how well handled our defensive front 4 were and how the Saints ran the ball and there pass protection you'll see why our secondary and scheme got abused.

I always thought the best way for us to deal with this was to use Moore and Lofton as primary Blitz options up the middle also its the quickest line to the QB but either BVG or MS were that scared of Brees and the NO passing attack they drop everyone into coverage and they gambled the front 4 would do the job and they didn't so Brees abused us.

Everyone keeps going on about bump or man coverage we have one corner that specialises in that sought of coverage the rest would get owned or we would be seeing flags galore in that sought of scheme.

[New Hope Eagle]

a good DC would know how to make these guys click.

its all about pressure. the secondarys that look great have great d line pressure

[Guest Gritz]

i quit reading after you said decoud is solid in coverage

Have to admit that was like reading Britney Spears is a great singer.

[jstammer]

I swear that Van Goofball has come up with the Falcons' version of the "Prevent Defense". Instead of

just giving up points during the 2-minute drill, they give up scoring drives and points ALL game long.

At least now we can see why Ishy went for it on 4th down during the OT game at our place. He was as shocked as the rest of us that this defense stopped the Saints the first time they had the ball in OT, and knew the odds of ever doing it again were quite slim.

[J-Wall]

I do. We are a base 4-3 cover 2. That wants to get pressure with our front 4 FAIL. We want the offense to get what we give and they sure do that. We want things to stay in front of us FAIL again. In a cover 2 the Safteys play inside out and are supposed to keep the ball going deep FAIL. Mlb stays put and will Rome slightly from side to side our olb play the the middle part to the sidelines and our corners have about 15 yrds and in to control things in front of them. But we continue to give up huge passes time after time. A cover 2 is basically to keep teams from scortching you deep and we let that happen game after game. Our blitz package is average at best.

[Robb4242]

Going to strongly disagree that DeCoud is good in the Tampa 2 that we run. Most of the big plays we give up are on his side of the field in the soft spot after the corner releases the receiver out of his zone. DeCoud is either usually out of position or is slow in reacting and late arriving which has given up quite a few big plays. Many people want to blame Robinson on a lot of those, but IMO, I think it's more the safety play than the corner that is giving up a lot of these 3rd & long's.

[citsalp]

You make some valid points, I think the biggest problem we don't ever change our scheme, when it's not working.

I fish semi-professional bass tournaments, I'm at my best when I can find a good spinnerbait bite, or a shallow running crankbait bite. When I was younger, if I could find that type of bite I would do well in the tournament, if not I normally bombed.

I now realize it's not about what " I like to fish with, or how I like to fish". It's about what the fish want, and whats working. I have been forced to change tactics to stay competitive. Needless to say my success has been much better when I'm able to adapt to the ever changing conditions during a tournament versus sticking with what's not working.

The Falcons for whatever reason seem to seldom stray from the original game plan. BVG would be bankrupt if he where to take this same approach fishing bass tournaments.

Sometimes you have to do things your not as comfortable doing, when your original game plan isn't working...

Edited December 31, 2011 by citsalp

[Da_Truth]

Personally, I worry more about how many members of our secondary understand the type of scheme we are trying to run...

Exactly! If the scheme is that complicated then dumb it down or modify it to the players strengths. We always try to fit everyone to our system.

[Guest Deisel]

Instead of just saying fire somebody look and see if you are giving the BVG what he needs to run his scheme. When you look at our scheme most of the guys that really fit the scheme (the colts style tapma 2 scheme) are having big years.Grimes is a true zone CB because of his ball skills and the same can be said about William More Then Thomas Decoud he's a good tackler and is soild in coverage those guys all fit well and Daunta Robinson is more of a press man to man CB not a zone CB but still a soild player. Then to the LB's what we look for is guys who have great speed,can cover and tackle and more than likely a pro type of player at these spots is needed here to run these scheme and we have two of them with lofton and weatherspoon and there great fits for our defense scheme. Now as for the defense line this is where we need a big time player to make the scheme work. And as good as John Abraham is he's not nearly as good as he once was but still a good player elite somedays and average on others and the same can be said about babs as well a good productive player but not an elite level DT. Now on to Peters who was having a big year but has slowed down sense and again a good fit but he's not even really a good player more of a soild player and more of a run stopper and is doing what the falcons need him to do.Then you have Sidbury and Edwards along with Beirman and again all good players but not elite passrusher's. (I think Sidbury could be with more playing time but who knows) Now with that being said lets say you put a Julius Pepers,JJP,Aldon Smith,Dewight Freeney,Mario Williams ,Clay Mathews,Jared Allen,Von Miller,T Sizzle on our team in place of Abrahm and all those guys can have a bad day and still effect an offense on the amount of attention they draw. And Abraham's that guy for us but he's not getting doubled or tripled teamed as much any more and he's just not producing when singled up and when the last time he showed up in a playoff or prime time game Because I can't remeber.

Basicly I'm saying we need one player because Pass rushing is what makes this defense go the scheme is to get pressure with speedy guys on the outside wile only rushing four and when you play a zone like that that means there's 6 to 7 guys waiting to make a play on the ball if its a pass and ready to run to the ball if its a run. And we have gotten a good amount of ints over the last two season and thats what the scheme is design to do. But its hard to run this scheme with out the main peace An elite Pass Rusher. Its like trying to run a 3-4 with out a NT maybe the most important part of a 3-4 defense.

Now if you guys just aren't happy with the DL not getting pessure and saying its the scheme (which its not)then a qick fix would be to go get that elite pass rusher (the closest player would be Robert Mathias) or switch to a 3-4 which you can get pressure by "scheming". Because it very hard to block two DE/OLB's and three DT's and mixing in bilitz's but we would need to probably get a solid to good CB and a NT it the draft. If we could land Janoris Jenkins and either sign or draft a big body to play the NT spot then I could see it happing but the draft is a long ways away and knowbody knows who going were or who going to fall rise and all that.

At the end of the day I think its just as much on Mike Smith who himself is a defense minded coach and BVG because these guys keep runing the same scheme when they don't have the right personal to run it. They need to blitiz a lot more and play more man to man which then would allow them to blitiz. But hey if they don't figure it out in about a week in half then they could find themselfs jobless which may be for the good.

Good post Joe, but I would think our DC could change us up a bit and pressure the WR's at the line and stunt and blitz Bree's come the playoffs. I thought for sure we would see Pressure like that this past monday. Dunta can press, and use Decoud at the line to press as well. Leave Moore back as safety help and let Grimes play a zone. Lofton drops back into the middle as does another backer and we blitz Spoon. Thats what its going to take to beat the saints. IMO.

[PokerSteve]

I do. We are a base 4-3 cover 2. That wants to get pressure with our front 4 FAIL. We want the offense to get what we give and they sure do that. We want things to stay in front of us FAIL again. In a cover 2 the Safteys play inside out and are supposed to keep the ball going deep FAIL. Mlb stays put and will Rome slightly from side to side our olb play the the middle part to the sidelines and our corners have about 15 yrds and in to control things in front of them. But we continue to give up huge passes time after time. A cover 2 is basically to keep teams from scortching you deep and we let that happen game after game. Our blitz package is average at best.

Um, uh, our blitz package isn't "average." Our blitz package is a total epic FAIL because its missing a couple of really important ingredients ~ QB sacks and QB pressures.