BlazerHarvard Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) What do YOU think is best for the long-term success of this franchise:Winning ONE playoff game and keeping the status quo by holding onto our two current coordinators?ORLosing in the first round and replacing one, if not both, coordinators with someone (or two) from the group of Mel Tucker, Steve Spagnuolo, Norv Turner, and Josh McDaniels?-----------Now, I ask this question for the sole purpose of discussion. By no means am I crossing my fingers in hopes that we lose. I mean, come on...we are Falcons fans. We want to win. However, that's not the question at hand.So again, which outcome do you really think would be best for our future? I ask because I'm not so sure we can win a Super Bowl with Van Gorder and I'm sure there are many that feel that way about at least one (and maybe both) of our coordinators.Personally, I feel Mularkey is a good enough offensive coordinator to win a Super Bowl with. I may be wrong, but I believe he is much better than Porn 'Stache on the other side of the ball. At the same time, I believe Turner and McDaniels would be upgrades over Mularkey so I'd still be open to seeing Mularkey sh!t-canned.And hey, Mularkey may leave on his own anyway, so if we were tentative to pull the trigger...he could potentially make it easy for us.--------I'll now leave it up to discussion. Edited December 29, 2011 by BlazerFalcon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peyton Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Let's bring in McDaniels and Spagnuolo, those guys are tearing it up in St. Louis this year.As for the poll question, I think it is always better to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlazerHarvard Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) Let's bring in McDaniels and Spagnuolo, those guys are tearing it up in St. Louis this year.As for the poll question, I think it is always better to win.Great logic.Wade Phillips was "tearing it up" last year as the Cowboys' head coach. Look at that scrub now!Point is, sometimes you run into bad luck, no matter how good you are.In addition to that, one can be a great coordinator and not be a great head coach. It happens.There are plenty of instances throughout NFL history where head coaching doesn't work out for excellent coordinators, so I don't know why you're dismissing McDaniels and Spagnuolo when they have proven to be exceptional coordinators in the past. Edited December 29, 2011 by BlazerFalcon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzummo Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Winning a playoff game would do more for us than losing it. For one, Ryan will get that playoff monkey off of his back. For two, the players will not get the losing mentality in their heads.If you win, the players will believe and they will thirst for more. If you lose 3 games in 3 attempts, it could get in some of the player's heads. A win will build confidence and if we can get HFA in the future like we did last season, the team should be that much more comfortable in the playoffs.On a side note, the later pick we give the Browns, the easier it will be to close the debate on the Julio trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niels petersen Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) That is a tough one. The best case scenario in my mind, would be that TD and Smith has realized that MMs offense isn't going forward.. The Julio experinment has shown that we can add more playmakers and talent, but if we don't use the talent to the fullest, this offense isn't going to improve without an OC with the mindset of scoring points on every single drive..I want to replace Mularkey, but it is tough for me to root for a loss for that to happen, so I really don't think that is the way. I believe that in time, it will become more and more apparent that some changes has to be made, and that will happen sometime even without a playoff loss. In part because expectations will continue to grow as we keep on having winning seasons and playoff appearances, and in part because the offense won't be able to match the growing expectations, no matter how many more playmakers we add. Sooner or later, there will be no other opponunity left, than changing the scheme.. In time, it will happen, but with a playoff win it will just take longer..We are not yeat at the crossroads of either winning a playoffgame og firing coordinators.. So, i gotta go with a playoff win. You should always want to win. And winning helps everything. Edited December 29, 2011 by niels petersen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzummo Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Great logic.Wade Phillips was "tearing it up" last year as the Cowboys' head coach. Look at that scrub now!Point is, sometimes you run into bad luck, no matter how good you are.In addition to that, one can be a great coordinator and not be a great head coach. It happens.Wade Phillips also wants to be a head coach and is probably a one and done in Houston. More often than not, changing coaches and coordinators fails in the longterm. Wade Phillips was the exception this season. For every successful coaching change, you can name 5 others that flopped. Just look at our own history since Reeves was here. We dropped Reeves with Wade Phillips as interim for 3 games, replaced him with Jim Mora Jr, replaced Mora with Bobby Petrino, then Emmitt Thomas was interim, and replaced him with Mike Smith. We went through 5 different head coaches from Reeves through Thomas before we landed a consistent winner with Mike Smith. Nevermind all of the offensive and defensive coordinators we went through. Everyone screamed for Zimmer and Knapp to get out, and they both seem to be doing pretty good in Hou and Cincy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Objective Critic Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) That is a false dichotomy and neither option is about long term success. Fans, such as myself, want to see the Falcons start to win in the playoffs so we can actually see progress. We already know the Falcons can win in the regular season and beat poor to mediocre teams. The fans want to see the Falcons beat great competition when it counts the most.Does it mean long term success? Maybe. The main thing is that the Falcons are not simply spinning their wheels, being apathetic and living on past success.If this is the golden years of this organization, then all the fans can look back at is a bloated winning season record that is totally undermined in the post season which translates to the Falcons being a fraud. Edited December 29, 2011 by Objective Critic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncja Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I want the coordinators gone as much as the next guy, but I will always wish for a win more than any player / coach move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlazerHarvard Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 Wade Phillips also wants to be a head coach and is probably a one and done in Houston. More often than not, changing coaches and coordinators fails in the longterm. Wade Phillips was the exception this season. For every successful coaching change, you can name 5 others that flopped. Just look at our own history since Reeves was here. We dropped Reeves with Wade Phillips as interim for 3 games, replaced him with Jim Mora Jr, replaced Mora with Bobby Petrino, then Emmitt Thomas was interim, and replaced him with Mike Smith. We went through 5 different head coaches from Reeves through Thomas before we landed a consistent winner with Mike Smith. Nevermind all of the offensive and defensive coordinators we went through. Everyone screamed for Zimmer and Knapp to get out, and they both seem to be doing pretty good in Hou and Cincy.Right.But, this isn't the same volatile franchise it once was.Over the past four seasons, we have maintained continuity on our coaching staff and we have experienced unparalleled success (relative to our history) over this time period. However, it is becoming increasingly obvious that we need to make some changes in regards to schematics, especially on the defensive side of the ball. Our defense has not progressed the last couple of seasons. It hit a plateau a long time ago, and it's not as if that's because there's no room to be better. BvG has not evolved and adapted; rather, he has remained stagnant in his ways. As a result, it is hurting us on the field and it has been hurting us for quite some time now.Ultimately, while we have been highly successful in recent years, we can't become complacent and tentative to make a coaching change based off of history. How much longer do we have to give BVG before we realize he is hindering us rather?We are incredibly average on that side of the ball based off of his scheme, not our talent level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlazerHarvard Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 We are not yeat at the crossroads of either winning a playoffgame og firing coordinators.. So, i gotta go with a playoff win. You should always want to win. And winning helps everything.Like I said, I want to win, of course.That wasn't the question, though. I thought I made that pretty clear in the initial post...guess not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzummo Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Right.But, this isn't the same volatile franchise it once was.Over the past four seasons, we have maintained continuity on our coaching staff and we have experienced unparalleled success (relative to our history) over this time period. However, it is becoming increasingly obvious that we need to make some changes in regards to schematics, especially on the defensive side of the ball. Our defense has not progressed the last couple of seasons. It hit a plateau a long time ago, and it's not as if that's because there's no room to be better. BvG has not evolved and adapted; rather, he has remained stagnant in his ways. As a result, it is hurting us on the field and it has been hurting us for quite some time now.Ultimately, while we have been highly successful in recent years, we can't become complacent and tentative to make a coaching change based off of history. How much longer do we have to give BVG before we realize he is hindering us rather?We are incredibly average on that side of the ball based off of his scheme, not our talent level.Well, first thing I should say is that I do think we would be a lot better on defense with Rex Ryan or Wade Phillips, but unfortunately those guys are not available. I'm not really big on BVG, but we could do a lot worse and he's not the only reason we are struggling on defense.Our 2 best DL have struggled with injuries this season. Both Abe and Babs have not been as disruptive this year. Our best CB has been injured and this was his first game back. Our best S got injured. Our starting LBer and now our backup LBer that replaced him are both injured. Our FA DE is coming off knee surgery and hasn't been a factor like he was in Minny before the surgery.I know injuries happen to every team, and I know we have a lot of talent on defense, but when 6 of your starters and tour 4 top playermakers on that side of the ball have been dealing with significant injuries, it's going to have an effect on their performance. I do think if we get our defensive players healthy for the playoffs, we could surprise a lot of people, and BVG will look a lot better.It's one thing when 2-3 good players are dealing with injuries. We have had 6 of our impact players dealing with injuries. Abe and Babs are the catalyst of our DL and our best passrushers at their positions. Moore and Grimes led this team in INT's with 5 a piece last season. When your 4 biggest playmakers are banged up on one side of the ball, it's going to make the DC look worse than he is. The Ravens lost Ray Lewis and it showed on their defense. When Pitt lost Polamalu and Harrison it showed. When you are forced to shuffle players as much as we have, there are going to be a lot more mistakes being made and I really do think this has been a bigger factor than BVG. The same could be said for our inconsistent offense. You don't shuffle your LT, C, RG, FB, and both starting WR's without losing consistency on that side of the ball. It sucks but it's the truth. Hopefully we can establish the consistency on both sides of the ball in time for the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandtrap Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I disagree with the notion that f we win one playoff game that MM will be safe. I think he will pursue the Jacksonville job and we will be shopping for an new OC. I also believe that we will have one of the most desired OC openings available in the league. You don't think There are coaches out there that would love to work with Ryan, Roddy, Julio, Tony, Turner and hopefully Harry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE-Falconlifer Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Incredible to even consider wanting lose a playoff game at any cost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlazerHarvard Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 Incredible to even consider wanting lose a playoff game at any costYup.That's exactly what I said I wanted us to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlazerHarvard Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 You don't think There are coaches out there that would love to work with Ryan, Roddy, Julio, Tony, Turner and hopefully Harry?Did I say that?No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Flop Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Nothing good about losing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niels petersen Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Like I said, I want to win, of course.That wasn't the question, though. I thought I made that pretty clear in the initial post...guess not...Yes you did..I just don't think we will be firing coodinators even if we were to lose a playoff game. I thought I made that clear in my post. So I think it just makes it harder for me to answer your question simply by selecting one of the options in your poll, as there is more to it IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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