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freebird310
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The main problem with our secondary is DeCoud. Dunta is pretty crappy sometimes, but if you are going to stay in a 2 deep zone for an entire game you better have a couple of really good safeties. I think Moore is going to be a good player for us, but DeCoud is almost always late with help over the top because his instincts are basically non-existent.

I no there are percived problems back there but you can mask these by winning the battle upfront ie for example cutting down a QB's time with pressure making him get rid of the ball quicker.I'm telling you now all this talk especially about Dunta and DeCoud would'nt be an issue if we could get consistent pass pressure and penetration upfront it really is that simple you watch next time the Falcons play how effective our scheme is when we get pressure.

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Having a great pass rush is always going to mask deficiencies in the secondary. The QB can't throw the ball when he's on his back after all. The pass rush isn't always going to get there though. We need major upgrades on the DL and in the secondary.

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Having a great pass rush is always going to mask deficiencies in the secondary. The QB can't throw the ball when he's on his back after all. The pass rush isn't always going to get there though. We need major upgrades on the DL and in the secondary.

Pass pressure it doesn't have to be sacks it can be consistently in the backfield basically by moving the QB around off the spot they like to say disrupts an offense makes a QB throw from an unfamiliar spot disrupts timing thats what we need more of and thats what i look for when watching the defensive front 4.

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The same response we ALWAYS hear. He's always out of position, he's always getting beat, blah blah blah. I show facts where he did not give up a single TD the entire game, and the response is a baseless claim without any supporting facts.

The truth is that teams with good QB's and good protection are eating up our zone scheme. Teams with mediocre to bad OL's are unable to exploit the soft spots in our zone because our passrush is able to disrupt them before they can let the deep routes develop.

Newsflash. If a CB releases the WR, that does not equate to the CB getting beat. If the CB is in zone coverage, he's not going to exit his zone until the ball is in the air. Most of the plays you all complain about him getting beat deep, the WR is not even in Dunta's zone. The WR might have run through Dunta's zone, Dunta released him, and then Dunta ran after him after the ball was thrown.

Here's a nice, short, educational video on the Cover 2 Zone defense for anyone that doesn't understand it. This is why you do not see Dunta Robinson (or other CB's) running 15-20 yards downfield to cover a WR unless the ball has already been thrown. If the QB is able to hold onto the ball long enough for the WR to get past the CB's zone, the WR is going to be open if the Safety does not get over in time.

I agree I believe he would be a **** of a lot better in bump and run coverage! But those people blaming D- Rob for that Defensive disaster is BS. We run a lot of zone and it only works when you are getting pressure. They put up 40+ points and none of it was on D- Rob so I don't understand how he gets the blame. Some people need a reality check around here and stop trying to find one player to blame. Defense is a team effort and it requires the whole team to make a defense good. We have the talent but the scheme does not match our talent IMO!

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Thats all I watched especially defensively the front 4 and straight up they got crushed they got very little penetration and no pressure on a consistent basis hence the saints to there credit ran the ball and gave Brees all day to throw,I no you saw the samething it's eassy for people on here to pick apart certain players but if they are'nt choosing to watch the important bits ie that defensive front 4 of ours then thats why I believe its easy for them to have the knieves out for a certain guy.

This is the point I'm trying to make to those throwing Dunta under the bus. The DL is the single most important catalyst for having a great zone defense. Teams without a good DL get destroyed in zone coverage. Teams with a good DL make zone CB's look good.

Think about every "great" NFL defense that ran primarily a zone scheme. The Bears with Tommy Harris, Tank Johnson, Ogunleye, and Brown in the front 4 (Nathan Vasher had 8 INT's thanks to that DL, and everyone thought he was a great CB). The 2002 Bucs with Sapp and Rice (Brian Kelly had 8 INT's that season, and only 3 the previous 4 years total).

Name one "great" or "good" zone defense that did not have a very disruptive front 4. Name one "great" zone CB that had a mediocre or lesser DL. There are none, because there are known soft spots in zone defenses, and without a passrush, those parts of the field are going to be wide open against every CB.

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I saw a couple times where Dunta was waiving his hands at someone behind him in coverage. To me I think it's a miscommunication on passing the WR off. Either the CB doesn't stay long enough or the safety doesn't react with enough anticipation, but anytime I see the QB let the ball go and the camera pans to follow the ball I end up seeing a WR that is in a 15 yard bubble all by himself. There is no point on the field where the next man should be 15 yards away no matter what kind of zone scheme you're running. If it's not one man it's both of their fault. At this point only Grimes, sometimes Moore, and recently Franks are ever close enough to actually "BREAK" on a ball that's in the air...this is a problem. We need to play some man...or some defense of any sort.

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There is much truth in this, but a lot of the "madden crowd" as I like to call them don't really want to understand or care to grasp one of the simplest fundamentals of excellent football performance:

The lines......It is the lines. If you have the twin disasters of a leaky, mushy offensive line and a non-penetrating, reactive (instead of proactive) d-line you are never, NEVER going to be an elite team in the NFL......or any other level of football for that matter.

Seems like every time I mention that what ATL needs is a fat guy in the middle, I get no support. But truthfully, think about when we had Grady. He plugs the middle, usually takes up 2 guys, then the DE's close in from the sides, and it makes everyone's job easier. Instead of a Grady, we get a Jerry. Not the same thing. Too bad Haynesworth is such a but. Someone like him would do this team a world of good.........

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Man, you guys really harp on any play Dunta gets beat. He didn't even give up a single TD this game. The first TD was a Pierre Thomas rushing TD. The 2nd TD Franks got beat by Colston. The 3rd TD was Graham over Grimes. The 4th TD was Meachum over Moore and DeCoud. The 5th TD was defensive. The 6th TD was Sproles between Spoon and Lofton.

Every WR is going to give up passing yards throughout a game. Especially playing in a zone defense if the passrush is not getting to the QB. The entire goal of a zone defense is for your passrush to get to the QB before the WR can get to the soft part of the zone. No passrush equates to WR's making catches in the soft spot of our zone coverage. Grimes gave up his fair share of plays in that game as well, including a TD to Graham.

This is the Cover 2. Look at where the soft zones are and tell me where Dunta is getting beat. Every time he releases the WR deep, you all act like it's his fault, meanwhile a CB is NOT supposed to follow a WR out of his zone. If he does, there's NOBODY covering his portion of the field. If a CB evacuates his zone because a WR is going long against this type of coverage, an easier 5 yard completion goes for 20+. The ONLY time a CB is not going to release the WR is if the ball is already in the air, which only occurs when the passrush gets to the QB. If the QB has 4 seconds, the CB is not going to follow the WR out of his zone.

Cover2Weakness.gif

Dunta was not the problem with our defense in this game. The lack of passrush was our problem. It's not like he had a great game or anything like that, because he did give up a few plays. But no more than anyone else on the defense, and unlike many others, he didn't give up any scores.

I think the issue most of us have with Robinson is that most times we're watching, he's usually running after someone after being juked out of his shoes or he's just flat out getting beat on a route. This could be because of the style of D we play. I believe he was a lot better playing man coverage in Houston. I'm just sayin'

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forget all the graphs, if you kno cover two you kno it. i blame our scouting department and TD for making this move of getting a CB better suited to play man then zone knowing we play a lot of cover two zone... i cnt even blame the coaches since this is there scheme that they run...

i want to see him play bump and run before i say he is trash... but the way we use him now, he plays like trash...

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I do not believe anyone in this thread knows what the sam helll they are talking about except the ones saying: GAMES ARE WON IN THE TRENCHES. Also, pzummo did a great job explaining the basic function and design of our specific defensive scheme.

I still do not understand the whole "Dunta is a bump and run corner". Can't a professional NFL cornerback learn a zone scheme, adapt to it, and execute it; especially if he is paid what he's making; and especially if our professional front office and coaching staff brought him on.

I do not believe some of our fans understand anything about NFL football; just blowing hot air to make it seem like they do because they may have played small ball in high school or junior college.

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It is very clear that Dunta purposely abandons his man looking for that safety help. WTH is the problem with just allowing our guys to man up? Huh? I mean the saints were like the big bully taking your lunch box away from you and eating all the goodies right in front of you and daring you to do something about it.

Dunta is physical and prefers bump and run, man-up style D. Weall know Grimes can cover. At least if we play this style D, no one can point the finger... it will be abundantly clear who got scorched.

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I do not believe anyone in this thread knows what the sam helll they are talking about except the ones saying: GAMES ARE WON IN THE TRENCHES. Also, pzummo did a great job explaining the basic function and design of our specific defensive scheme.

I still do not understand the whole "Dunta is a bump and run corner". Can't a professional NFL cornerback learn a zone scheme, adapt to it, and execute it; especially if he is paid what he's making; and especially if our professional front office and coaching staff brought him on.

I do not believe some of our fans understand anything about NFL football; just blowing hot air to make it seem like they do because they may have played small ball in high school or junior college.

playing zone and playing man is two totally different things... yes you would think a CB at the pro level should be able to, but thats just not the case, some players play better in zone and vice versa... dunta played man in college coming out of SC, and he played man in houston, now 6 years into hie pro career he is asked to play zone and off man... thats like telling lofton to go play WLB... two different techniques entirely..

look at namdi and his trasition from being the best at bump and run to looking like an average CB playing in philly zone scheme...

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[quote name='pzu

Prolly not fair to single him out when DeCoud sucks just as bad ....but I am gonna come right out and say it, THIS GUY BLOWS AND IS A LIABILITY .....same goes for DeCoud .....we need a real ballhawking FS who is does not blow coverage on every other play ....and I would just as soon cut Duntas azz outright, cause no one else is gonna want him with his fatazz contract ...... ANYTHING is better than these two jokers ......

Stop bashing Dunta . he plays the all important "cover no-one" position. leave a TE ten yard in front and a WR ten yards behind and there you have it.

Edited by Negatron
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Dunta is a terrible player simply for the fact that he totes himself as this premiere shut down corner yet he is mediocre at best. The man is the second highest paid cornerback in NFL HISTORY, yet I can easily name 15 cornerbacks better him playing right now. TBH, the more I watch Robinson play, the more I wish we could bring back DeAngelo Hall.

deangelo-hall2.jpg

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The man is the second highest paid cornerback in NFL HISTORY, yet I can easily name 15 cornerbacks better him playing right now.

Well that's just a straight out lie. Nate Clements got an 8 year $80m dollar deal in SF. Revis got a $13m a year extension. Nnamdi got $15m a year on his Oak contract and 6 years $72m on his Phi contract. Champ got a 6 year $60m contract back in 2004. Champ got an extension that was $11m a year.

Where do you all come up with this stuff? Do you just make it up as you go along?

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Well that's just a straight out lie. Nate Clements got an 8 year $80m dollar deal in SF. Revis got a $13m a year extension. Nnamdi got $15m a year on his Oak contract and 6 years $72m on his Phi contract. Champ got a 6 year $60m contract back in 2004. Champ got an extension that was $11m a year.

Where do you all come up with this stuff? Do you just make it up as you go along?

I got this from Steve Wyche, a respected NFL analyst. Barring extensions, Dunta's contract would be second highest to Nnamdi because while proportionally he is making the same as Clements and Champ (10 million/ year), he was guaranteed $23 million up front. Only Nnamdi was guaranteed more money. But that is beside the point; the players you mentioned have in some fashion been crucial to the teams the play for. I honestly cannot say the same for Dunta.

Edited by jacobi
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I don't think Dunta plays bad as most people think on this board. First of all, we play a lot of zone which requires him to play certain part of the field. While it may look like he let a WR get behind him, if he's in zone coverage his job would be to protect a certain part of the field. In Monday nights game it looked like he was eyeing someone else coming into the zone prior to the ball being thrown.

Teams like Green Bay and New Orleans are going to create decoy routes to clear certain areas of the zone and run the primary receiver into those open spots, which is why you see guys wide open. Since we can't get any pass rush against the OL, the QB has time to wait for the play to develop and the receivers to come open. Even I can often see which receiver is going to be open by our defensive alignment.

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If you notice teams like GB, Philly, NO, NE have problems when u press their receivers. They eat up soft zones when a rush doesn't get there. But with our D i think we'd get a better rush up front if we played more press man coverage. I'd leave Dunta in press man(like Dallas did with Deion or Oakland with Nandi) and Grimes could play zone since thats his strength, even tho he can play man as well. Just not great at press. That would help the front 4 get a better rush cause the qb is holding the ball longer and receivers are getting re routed. It's not working with soft zones so what would we lose by playing more physical? I also think we'd get more int's this way too

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I got this from Steve Wyche, a respected NFL analyst. Barring extensions, Dunta's contract would be second highest to Nnamdi because while proportionally he is making the same as Clements and Champ (10 million/ year), he was guaranteed $23 million up front. Only Nnamdi was guaranteed more money. But that is beside the point; the players you mentioned have in some fashion been crucial to the teams the play for. I honestly cannot say the same for Dunta.

Steve Wyche was boasting skewed information. Imagine that, a reporter skewing facts... And these contracts are given to non-crucial CB's because that's the going rate for a starting CB in the NFL. Dunta is not even in the top 10 paid CB's.

Dunta's contract = 6 years, $57m, $9.5m per season

Standford Routt = 3 years, $31.5m, $10.5m per season

Nnamdi Asomugha = 5 years, $60m, $12m per season

Darelle Revis - 4 years, $46m, $11.5m per season

Champ Bailey - 4 years, $43m, $10.75m per season

Deangelo Hall - 7 years, $70m, $10m per season

Nate Clements - 8 years, $80m, $10m per season

Charles Woodson - 5 years, $55m, $11m per season

Jonathan Joseph - 5 years, $48m, $9.6m per season

Joe Hayden - 5 years, $50m, $10m per season

Asante Samuel - 6 years, $59.75m, $9.96m per season

And another thing, a lot of of Dunta's contract is in salary his last two years. He is only being paid a total of $13m over the next 2 seasons combined (2012 and 2013), which is $6.5m per season. He will likely be cut or restructure before his balloon payments in 2014 and 2015. He received a longer contract than most CB's, but that's in our favor, not his, because we are not forced to re-sign him in his 20's like several of the other players mentioned above. So the overall number does not mean jack compared to the per season money. Would you rather 6 years at $57m (Dunta's contract) or 3 years at $45m (Nnamdi's Oakland contract)? Nnamdi was given $12m less for 3 less years, $5.5m more per season.

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It's your perogative to watch and learn or sit back and whine. There are some plays where Dunta gets beat and I don't defend him when people complain about those. But I am going to defend him when people are complaining about him when a guy like Brees eats up our zone with no passrush.

In this game, he did not give up a TD and he played his zone how he was supposed to. He gave up a couple of plays but was no where near our worst defender in this game. It's a bit annoying when everyone harps on one player when there are others that are not doing their job. It's kind of like people whining about Ryan when the OL doesn't protect him. Or whining about Turner on a play he's hit in the backfield.

Look Corky, you may think you are real smart because you know how to google, copy and paste a generic Cover 2 lesson LOL, but it does not take a rocket scientist to see that Dunta Robinson is a one trick pony who brings the wood, but he sucks in coverage no matter what scheme he is in .......heck he could not cover even when he was in Houston .......this guy is not helping us get anywhere, and what he brings could be replaced for alot less than 70 million ........but hey, nice try ........

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Look Corky, you may think you are real smart because you know how to google, copy and paste a generic Cover 2 lesson LOL, but it does not take a rocket scientist to see that Dunta Robinson is a one trick pony who brings the wood, but he sucks in coverage no matter what scheme he is in .......heck he could not cover even when he was in Houston .......this guy is not helping us get anywhere, and what he brings could be replaced for alot less than 70 million ........but hey, nice try ........

You obviously prefer to stay uneducated, ignoring the facts, and continue babbling your nonsensical lies. You showed your hand with your ignorant 70 million comment when it was made quite clear in plain English two posts above you that Dunta's contract is only $13m for the next 2 years and was for $57m originally.

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You obviously prefer to stay uneducated, ignoring the facts, and continue babbling your nonsensical lies. You showed your hand with your ignorant 70 million comment when it was made quite clear in plain English two posts above you that Dunta's contract is only $13m for the next 2 years and was for $57m originally.

Only 57 million ? ......well excuse the fk out of me .........rolleyes.gif

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