The No Holding Penalty Because It Was A Screen Pass Explanation.

[Borat]

Calls went in the Saints favor the entire game, but the Falcons didn't make it close enough to have any reason to b*tch; WFW could have been reffing and we'd still have lost by double digits. If we'd lost by a FG; I'd be irate, but we didn't make it close enough for it to matter.

[dunnoanymore]

Do you really want them to see every single penalty? The games are already 3 hours long. Do you really want them to stop on every play to throw a penalty flag?

i dont think reviewable by coaches is right

more like college where everything is looked at in the booth. play only stops if he sees something wrong

i think human error has to remain a part of the game

to me its the rules that need adjusting.

like if a def players hand hits a QBs head. Are you serious.

the helmet to helmet is going way to far. every big hit is falgged.

Edited December 28, 2011 by dunnoanymore

[BigMikey]

Calls went in the Saints favor the entire game, but the Falcons didn't make it close enough to have any reason to b*tch; WFW could have been reffing and we'd still have lost by double digits. If we'd lost by a FG; I'd be irate, but we didn't make it close enough for it to matter.

+1

[bradael]

The way I understood it... in normal pass blocking situations, the way the OLineman blocked on that play, it looked as if he threw the DLineman to the ground.

But since it was a screen pass, it's a standard move where they shed the block to the side as they let the DL go by so they can get up the field... the DLineman ended up falling anyway. It still may have been holding, but since it was a screen pass, the way he was blocking was a lot less likely for a ref to consider it as holding unless they can see the jersey actually being held.

Edited December 29, 2011 by bradael

[Bart2Ryan+beyond]

The way I understood it... in normal pass blocking situations, the way the OLineman blocked on that play, it looked as if he threw the DLineman to the ground.

But since it was a screen pass, it's a standard move where they shed the block to the side as they let the DL go by so they can get up the field... the DLineman ended up falling anyway. It still may have been holding, but since it was a screen pass, the way he was blocking was a lot less likely for a ref to consider it as holding unless they can see the jersey actually being held.

I started this whole thread and just read a comment from a link in TATF and the commentator says we're assuming the holding was on a Saints OLineman and maybe it was on a Falcons DLineman. I never considered that because you never see DL accused of holding while they're rushing the passer.

The commentator points out that if the call was originally on Abe it might have been him that shoved Sproles aside in an effort the shed Sproles' block, which would be fine if he didn't actually grab Sproles and throw him to the side - if he shoved or pushed him (no matter how hard) then it's not a penalty for holding. This makes the ref's explanation much more plausible.

If the flag was on the NO OLineman, then no he can't hold just because it is a screen pass. They can shove and then just let the DLineman go just like on all screen passes.

I wish the ref clarified whether it was defensive or offensive holding - it would have save us a whole lot of typing if it was the former. Heck, even Pereira commented that he didn't understand their explanation so he must not have thought the penalty was for offensive holding.

Whatever, I've beat this horse long enough.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Bart2Ryan+beyond

[falconidae]

I didn't understand the no-call on holding when Brees ran it out, either.. I'd like an explanation for that one. Even as a Saints fan, I thought that should have been a holding call.

As for the hit on Colston that drew a flag on you guys.. it was helmet to helmet, and the league has been pretty clear that they won't tollerate it this season. There have been many calls AGAINST US for the same exact thing. I've seen hits that looked legal, that our defenders made. But, they touched helmets and the refs called it. It is what it is.

Jenkins used his shoulder when he tackled, which is why he wasn't flagged, I think. It was a viscious hit, but it wasn't helmet to helmet, and he didn't go flying through the air to spear him. He just put a good shoulder into the guy's back. It probably COULD have drawn a penalty for spearing, and trust me, I've seen less intense hits called on us ALL season long.

I don't think the Saints defender was offsides. He moved, but his hand was right at the line of scrimmage. Just because a defensive player jumps/moves, doesn't automatically mean he's "offsides". He has to cross the LOS when the ball is snapped to be considered offsides. From the replay, it looks like he wasn't over the line.

Look, I hate the refs as much as you guys.. But, the fact is, we've been shafted all season as well. I know you guys don't watch all of our games, and we don't watch all of yours.. but, if you think that it's just you guys, you're wrong. Last week, we had a call against Roman Harper for a PF, when he didn't even TOUCH the opposing team's QB. He missed on a tackle, and was called for roughing.. So, I know how aggravating it can be. Some of these games, all I could do was laugh, because it got to the point where it was just silly. Luckily, our team is good enough to overcome this stuff, even when we have to play the opposing team AND the refs.

Again, not claiming the calls would have made any difference, and officiating is uniformly horrible but- they didn't call a helmet to helmet personal foul, they called defenseless receiver. So, at the very least, they called the wrong foul.

And even if they meant helmet to helmet- the hit on Kelly was a hit on a defenseless receiver- he was in the act of catching the ball and could not protect himself. The reason they put the rule in was to prevent hits like that.

[Bart2Ryan+beyond]

Again, not claiming the calls would have made any difference, and officiating is uniformly horrible but- they didn't call a helmet to helmet personal foul, they called defenseless receiver. So, at the very least, they called the wrong foul.

And even if they meant helmet to helmet- the hit on Kelly was a hit on a defenseless receiver- he was in the act of catching the ball and could not protect himself. The reason they put the rule in was to prevent hits like that.

Check out this thread started by MVCrook cause Mike Pereira explains the rule in a link the MVCrook found:

The refs did not say that Lofton's hit was helmet-to-helmet, but the replay shows it was. The hit on Kelly, if I'm reading the rules right, was legal because the DB hit him in the lower back and did not lead with his helmet. So you still can hit a receiver to break up a pass but it can't be near the head and neck and you can't lead with the helmet no matter where on the body you hit the receiver.

[SuperAINTSfan]

Check out this thread started by MVCrook cause Mike Pereira explains the rule in a link the MVCrook found:

http://boards.atlant...l-monday-night/

The refs did not say that Lofton's hit was helmet-to-helmet, but the replay shows it was. The hit on Kelly, if I'm reading the rules right, was legal because the DB hit him in the lower back and did not lead with his helmet. So you still can hit a receiver to break up a pass but it can't be near the head and neck and you can't lead with the helmet no matter where on the body you hit the receiver.

pretty much how i read that too.

Jenkins had two BIG hits in that game

[Falconcheff]

Honestly I want the officiating as a whole to improve. I see terrible officiating in almost every game of every week. These guys need to be under 50. In shape. 20/20 vision and it needs to be a year round job.

The game as a whole is being taken out of the players' hands, and too often nowadays the OUTCOME of the games are being affected by judgement calls. This defenseless receiver BS has got to be addressed. The game is too fast for judgement calls. Rules should be black or white.

If I was an OC in today's NFL, I would coach receivers to go over the middle; I would coach QB's to throw the ball near the receivers' helmets, where they can never legally be jarred loose, and if a pass is thrown low, I would coach my receivers to duck their heads as soon as they catch the ball.