Jump to content

Lets Compare The Two Qbs In This Weeks Atl-No Game, Today And At Similar Points In Their Careers


falconidae
 Share

Recommended Posts

Today, Brees is one of the best QBs playing right now, elite no matter how you define it and gives his team a chance to win every game he's in. Ryan is very good as well, but hardly in the same class. [think the Falcons win this game because the rest of the falcon team is superior to the rest of the saints team]

But it wasn't always like that. Because Saints fans didn't have to suffer through the growing pains of Brees becoming elite, they can claim that Ryan will never get there.

They forget that Brees was 2-9 in his second year starting and got benched for Flutie, that the Chargers felt they had to draft another QB, that Brees didn't get his team to the playoffs until his fourth year in the league and didn't win a playoff game until his sixth year.

If you compare numbers from Brees first four years starting to Ryan's first 3.5 years starting, Ryan is better in many categories:

Regular season stats:

First 4 years starting: Brees 30-28, 12,127 yards, 79 TDs, 53 INTs, 9 GWD, 2-12 when RB gains 60 or less

First 3.5 years starting:Ryan, 38-16, 12,019 yards, 78 TDs, 43 INTs, 15 GWD, 6-8 when RB gains 60 or less.

Ryan already has more victories, game winning drives and wins w/o run support.

By the end of this year, Ryan will have more yards, TDs and fewer INTs.

Brees is way ahead of Ryan right now, and he should be. Brees has started almost 3 times as many games [146-54], has had 7 more years to perfect his craft, but Ryan has had a much better start to his career.

Ryan started his rookie year, Brees sat and watched. Ryan has never had such a bad season that he was replaced mid season and had his replacement drafted. Ryan has never had a losing season as a QB. Ryan has been much more clutch in his early career.

Ryan isn't elite yet, but he's started his career much better than someone who became elite.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 127
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

I think people rush the maturation of QBs. They point to Rodgers, who had what 3-4 years behind one of the best ever, to just learn. Ryan was thrown into a shltty situation. Eli didn't throw for 4000 yards until his 6th season. QBs take a long time to become elite. That's why the elite ones are in or close to their 30s.

The objective is to get a QB who can become elite around 29-30 and ride them for 4-6 years. But if they can be very good in the mid 20s, then putting the right weapons and scheme around him can speed up the process. But getting a QB with no elite ability leads to no elite QB. Ryan may not be physically elite, but he is mentally elite. Very cerebral and strong willed. That's why he wins games. Flacco, on the other hand, may have elite arm strength, but that is crippled by average mental capacity and decision making. That's the difference. All of the elite QBs are smart first, big armed second.

Edited by vel
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice stat. but brees didn't get a start, and also brees got hurt in his third year.

Didn't get a start? You mean didn't play as a rookie? That's why i listed first four years starting.

Don't think he was hurt his 3rd year- his shoulder injury was in his fifth year. Can't find any reports of him being injured, think he just played badly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest mashburn

Didn't get a start? You mean didn't play as a rookie? That's why i listed first four years starting.

Don't think he was hurt his 3rd year- his shoulder injury was in his fifth year. Can't find any reports of him being injured, think he just played badly.

gotcha. I was not sure if that is when he was hurt or not. maybe it was due to bad playing. but brees missed a lot.

this will be a good topic in 3 years from now. cause I am curious if Matt can improve on his deep ball.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest mashburn

He's been MIA for a few days... and that's a good thing.

I have noticed the boards seem to be getting more cleaned up lately. maybe they only allowed those guys to have conversations in the rival room.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Overwhelmingly I believe coaches appear smarter then they are because of their quarterback, Belichick was very average before Tom Brady came along, Aaron Rodgers and McCarthy are another example, etc, etc...

In this case, I believe Payton makes Brees look a touch better then he actually is. I think Brees is very, very good, but for my money, Payton is the best head coach in football. No one designs better plays and calls them at the most opportune time them Payton. Andy Reid would get honorable mention.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know people like to compare players, especially QBs but it really means nothing.

Only if you can answer

What would Brees' stats be if he had Ryans career path? ---- or

What would Ryan's stats be if he had Brees' career path?

And we'll never know the answer.

I understand your point. My basic point is that Brees wasn't elite by his fourth year and he developed into one of the best QB playing. Ryan can do the same thing.

So, do you agree or disagree with that idea?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know people like to compare players, especially QBs but it really means nothing.

Only if you can answer

What would Brees' stats be if he had Ryans career path? ---- or

What would Ryan's stats be if he had Brees' career path?

And we'll never know the answer.

But, don't you see it's all about the comparisons. The detractors allways bring up Ryan vs Vick, eeh, I mean [insert QB] to drive home their point, however misguided.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some major holes, if you take out hos second year when he was benched, he came back the following year and went 12-4, won comeback player of the year award and went to playofffs

He was hurt the last game of his 4th season the following year, which was just his 3rd full season. He went 9-7 that year and made the pro bowl.

The only reason the numbers look close Was because you are adding in his horrible partial second year.

The following year, he took over Saints and took them from 3-13 to 10-6 and all the way to NFC champ game, on win from SB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The other thing worth pointing out is the "regression" myth.

Brees 3rd year: 27/7; 104.8

Brees 4th year: 24/15; 89.2

Manning 3rd year: 33/15; 94.8

Manning 4th year: 26/23; 84.1

There are other QB's who have mostly posted steady stats (Brady/Rivers), Rodgers keeps spiking upward, Big Ben has been very erratic. The point is even elite QB's are affected by the circumstances on their teams.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand your point. My basic point is that Brees wasn't elite by his fourth year and he developed into one of the best QB playing. Ryan can do the same thing.

So, do you agree or disagree with that idea?

I absolutely agree. MR will be one of the following:

A)A great QB

B)An average QB

C)Really, really bad

All of his (and the Falcons) success up until now point to him being either A or B.

There hasn't been a single sign that he will be C, so the "dump MR he sucks" threads and posts are the most ridiculous things I have ever read. Every QB has a few bad games here and there, so you have to look at the big picture, and Matt's is bright no doubt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some major holes, if you take out hos second year when he was benched, he came back the following year and went 12-4, won comeback player of the year award and went to playofffs

He was hurt the last game of his 4th season the following year, which was just his 3rd full season. He went 9-7 that year and made the pro bowl.

The only reason the numbers look close Was because you are adding in his horrible partial second year.

The following year, he took over Saints and took them from 3-13 to 10-6 and all the way to NFC champ game, on win from SB

Whats the problem with adding his horrible second year? That was still him playing QB. And as previously mentioned Brees is really good without a doubt, but he is made to look much better because he has an offensive genius calling plays. He would not be nearly as good if Mike Mularkey was at the helm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some major holes, if you take out hos second year when he was benched, he came back the following year and went 12-4, won comeback player of the year award and went to playofffs

He was hurt the last game of his 4th season the following year, which was just his 3rd full season. He went 9-7 that year and made the pro bowl.

The only reason the numbers look close Was because you are adding in his horrible partial second year.

The following year, he took over Saints and took them from 3-13 to 10-6 and all the way to NFC champ game, on win from SB

Well why not? We are comparing the 1st four years of boh, good, bad or indifferent

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some major holes, if you take out hos second year when he was benched, he came back the following year and went 12-4, won comeback player of the year award and went to playofffs

He was hurt the last game of his 4th season the following year, which was just his 3rd full season. He went 9-7 that year and made the pro bowl.

The only reason the numbers look close Was because you are adding in his horrible partial second year.

The following year, he took over Saints and took them from 3-13 to 10-6 and all the way to NFC champ game, on win from SB

And why should I take that year out?

Brees was hurt the last game of his fifth year, not his fourth year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No way to know the answer. Who had the better conference? How good were the teams Ryan played compared to the ones brees played? A lot of unknowns, but one thing, brees makes his receivers. You can throw a waterboy on the field and brees will throw him the ball. Saints did t need to waste a draft on another receiver.

I understand your point. My basic point is that Brees wasn't elite by his fourth year and he developed into one of the best QB playing. Ryan can do the same thing.

So, do you agree or disagree with that idea?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...