Owners cant win

[Quizztorris]

I see a lot of people condemning the owners, but anyone who takes their side needs to explain some things to me.

What are the players fighting for?

First it was for safety. All those issues were addressed. Then it was money. That was addressed. Ohh, now it's something else...respect. Are you kidding me??

First of all this is business and you are grown men. People are disrespected by their bosses everyday. **** there's a movie whose plot is based on it. Grow up! More importantly, the players demand to be respected in these negotiations now. Are these the same people that called the Commissioner a punk, a dictator and other words that I can't even use on these forums. Yet now their crying because they feel disrespected??

The players claim they were not involved in the negotiations.

What do the players expect. That Roger Goodell would come around to every individual player, explain every line of the cba to them, and ask for their input?? That's an impossible task. That's why the teams each have a player representative and the entire "trade association" is REPRESENTED by Dee Smith. Dee Smith and Roger Goodell negotiated the deal. If Dee Smith didn't make sure that everything was spelled out in the cba, then that's his fault.

The players don't feel like the league can tell them to recertify.

You stupid, ignorant meat heads. The NAME of the thing is a collective bargaining agreement. Collective Bargaining can only occur with a Union. The piece of paper is worthless unless you're a union.

I also feel like the owners were kind of lead into this situation. If I'm not mistaken on Wednesday night the players didn't vote because they said they didn't have the final deal in front of them. Then thursday the bosses meet, negotiate with Dee Smith, and make a finalized document. Oooooh, but now that they're handing us a finalized document they're suddenly shoving this down our throat. One second...Didn't you just complain yesterday that you didn't have the finalized document. Some (please note I said some and not all) of the players said that they literally didn't have anything from the owners agreement to look at. This is the friggin' 21st century, ask them to fax or email a copy to you. That takes all of 30 seconds?? The fact that they made no effort at all to get a copy just shows how disingenuous the players are.

Listen, I know there's always two sides to a story. I'm sure there are things that are going on. But the players need to put their egos aside. To hold up football because the players feel disrespected is ridiculous. Now that there's no player union, I say the bosses should just make up whatever they want and hand it to the players. There's no players union to argue with them. If the players don't like it they can walk. 2/3 of them will be back by next year and the talent of the other 1/3 will be replaced by new talent within 2 to 3 years. Good riddance...

[freebird310]

I see a lot of people condemning the owners, but anyone who takes their side needs to explain some things to me.

What are the players fighting for?

First it was for safety. All those issues were addressed. Then it was money. That was addressed. Ohh, now it's something else...respect. Are you kidding me??

First of all this is business and you are grown men. People are disrespected by their bosses everyday. **** there's a movie whose plot is based on it. Grow up! More importantly, the players demand to be respected in these negotiations now. Are these the same people that called the Commissioner a punk, a dictator and other words that I can't even use on these forums. Yet now their crying because they feel disrespected??

The players claim they were not involved in the negotiations.

What do the players expect. That Roger Goodell would come around to every individual player, explain every line of the cba to them, and ask for their input?? That's an impossible task. That's why the teams each have a player representative and the entire "trade association" is REPRESENTED by Dee Smith. Dee Smith and Roger Goodell negotiated the deal. If Dee Smith didn't make sure that everything was spelled out in the cba, then that's his fault.

The players don't feel like the league can tell them to recertify.

You stupid, ignorant meat heads. The NAME of the thing is a collective bargaining agreement. Collective Bargaining can only occur with a Union. The piece of paper is worthless unless you're a union.

I also feel like the owners were kind of lead into this situation. If I'm not mistaken on Wednesday night the players didn't vote because they said they didn't have the final deal in front of them. Then thursday the bosses meet, negotiate with Dee Smith, and make a finalized document. Oooooh, but now that they're handing us a finalized document they're suddenly shoving this down our throat. One second...Didn't you just complain yesterday that you didn't have the finalized document. Some (please note I said some and not all) of the players said that they literally didn't have anything from the owners agreement to look at. This is the friggin' 21st century, ask them to fax or email a copy to you. That takes all of 30 seconds?? The fact that they made no effort at all to get a copy just shows how disingenuous the players are.

Listen, I know there's always two sides to a story. I'm sure there are things that are going on. But the players need to put their egos aside. To hold up football because the players feel disrespected is ridiculous. Now that there's no player union, I say the bosses should just make up whatever they want and hand it to the players. There's no players union to argue with them. If the players don't like it they can walk. 2/3 of them will be back by next year and the talent of the other 1/3 will be replaced by new talent within 2 to 3 years. Good riddance...

I just plain don't give a fk anymore, and am tired of talking about it ...I mean what more is there to say really ? ...by Monday morning, bodies will be in camp is my prediction. That is all that matters, not who's right. who's wrong, or who screwed the cat .....so let it be written, so let it be done ......

[HouseofEuphoria]

I couldnt agree more.

All your points are valid.

[mrobinson3803]

I am trying to stay unbiased I just feel like the players are doing their due diligence. You should never sign a contract without reading it. And this is a pretty important contract especially since it last a decade. Have some patience.

[Joremarid]

if it's true that the owners added stuff to the cba that wasn't agreed on with the players then how can this not be the owners fault? of course the players need to go through every page of this document that's hundreds of pages long to see what the owners tried to sneak in.

[RHEC]

The owners are the bosses, the players are the employees, the employees are trying to walk all over the owners. Players are not going to vote today, tomorrow, Sunday and I doubt Monday or Tuesday either. The players will still find something wrong and will continue to fight it.

[Mid-Nite-Toker]

I am trying to stay unbiased I just feel like the players are doing their due diligence. You should never sign a contract without reading it. And this is a pretty important contract especially since it last a decade. Have some patience.

I have not heard of any specifics that the owners tried to push through. I think it's a matter of pride(owners vs players). The players will look like they caved in because they were the only ones to really lose money. The owners post game celebration hit the players like the Miami Heat rap video that pissed so many off in the NBA world.

The owners seemed to impose a timetable and the players feel disrespected by the owners...trivializing there(players) process(union/1900 players). It is a partnership(NFL/NFLPA) and I think the players felt like the help. I think cooler heads will prevail and the deal gets done by Tuesday.

[morehouse11]

I see a lot of people condemning the owners, but anyone who takes their side needs to explain some things to me.

What are the players fighting for?

First it was for safety. All those issues were addressed. Then it was money. That was addressed. Ohh, now it's something else...respect. Are you kidding me??

First of all this is business and you are grown men. People are disrespected by their bosses everyday. **** there's a movie whose plot is based on it. Grow up! More importantly, the players demand to be respected in these negotiations now. Are these the same people that called the Commissioner a punk, a dictator and other words that I can't even use on these forums. Yet now their crying because they feel disrespected??

The players claim they were not involved in the negotiations.

What do the players expect. That Roger Goodell would come around to every individual player, explain every line of the cba to them, and ask for their input?? That's an impossible task. That's why the teams each have a player representative and the entire "trade association" is REPRESENTED by Dee Smith. Dee Smith and Roger Goodell negotiated the deal. If Dee Smith didn't make sure that everything was spelled out in the cba, then that's his fault.

The players don't feel like the league can tell them to recertify.

You stupid, ignorant meat heads. The NAME of the thing is a collective bargaining agreement. Collective Bargaining can only occur with a Union. The piece of paper is worthless unless you're a union.

I also feel like the owners were kind of lead into this situation. If I'm not mistaken on Wednesday night the players didn't vote because they said they didn't have the final deal in front of them. Then thursday the bosses meet, negotiate with Dee Smith, and make a finalized document. Oooooh, but now that they're handing us a finalized document they're suddenly shoving this down our throat. One second...Didn't you just complain yesterday that you didn't have the finalized document. Some (please note I said some and not all) of the players said that they literally didn't have anything from the owners agreement to look at. This is the friggin' 21st century, ask them to fax or email a copy to you. That takes all of 30 seconds?? The fact that they made no effort at all to get a copy just shows how disingenuous the players are.

Listen, I know there's always two sides to a story. I'm sure there are things that are going on. But the players need to put their egos aside. To hold up football because the players feel disrespected is ridiculous. Now that there's no player union, I say the bosses should just make up whatever they want and hand it to the players. There's no players union to argue with them. If the players don't like it they can walk. 2/3 of them will be back by next year and the talent of the other 1/3 will be replaced by new talent within 2 to 3 years. Good riddance...

Just curious, wanted to hear your opinion on this because you obviously feel strongly about it. How did you feel in the beginning of the lockout, when all this started because the owners ended the existing CBA, because they said they are not receiving enough of the revenue. But then refused to open up their books to allow everyone to see how much they are making? Do you think that was "fair or logical"?

[Quizztorris]

if it's true that the owners added stuff to the cba that wasn't agreed on with the players then how can this not be the owners fault? of course the players need to go through every page of this document that's hundreds of pages long to see what the owners tried to sneak in.

How can they argue that they didn't have the offer from the owners and at the same time argue that the owners deal had stuff in it they didn't negotiate. Which is it because I'm hearing both and they directly contradict one another.

I've only heard of two things holding it up now. The players want an opt out clause at 7 years ( last I checked that would be the players adding something to the cba), and the issue of recertification. If you watched ALL the player interviews last night each one was asked to specifically name what provisions in the new cba that they disagreed and none of them could give examples. Why?? Because they didn't even read it. Instead Dee Smith, and George Atalla said just said "This is an insult" and all the players blindly got on their twitter accounts.

[Joremarid]

How can they argue that they didn't have the offer from the owners and at the same time argue that the owners deal had stuff in it they didn't negotiate. Which is it because I'm hearing both and they directly contradict one another.

I've only heard of two things holding it up now. The players want an opt out clause at 7 years ( last I checked that would be the players adding something to the cba), and the issue of recertification. If you watched ALL the player interviews last night each one was asked to specifically name what provisions in the new cba that they disagreed and none of them could give examples. Why?? Because they didn't even read it. Instead Dee Smith, and George Atalla said just said "This is an insult" and all the players blindly got on their twitter accounts.

they may not have gotten the official documents but were told about the additions by the owners through their lawyers. also b/c the players didn't specifically say what was the issue doesn't mean they don't know. knowing something and publicly speaking about it are two different things.

[Quizztorris]

Just curious, wanted to hear your opinion on this because you obviously feel strongly about it. How did you feel in the beginning of the lockout, when all this started because the owners ended the existing CBA, because they said they are not receiving enough of the revenue. But then refused to open up their books to allow everyone to see how much they are making? Do you think that was "fair or logical"?

Yes it's fair. You think if I work at wal mart and they want to cut back my hours I can demand to see wal marts most highly guarded financial documents. That's one thing no one said is that it was a ridiculous request. Just because they play football doesnt make them special. The whole concept of a union came about to truly protect workers. People were dying or being permanently harmed at their jobs. Now that concept is being bastardized and for what?? Because Vincent Jackson would rather make 7 million in new York instead of San Diego. Or because the players want 10 OTA's instead of 12. Or because it's just a little too hot for me to put on pads twice in August. Go join the Phillies pitching staff if that's the case.

[Joremarid]

from john clayton:

This was an obvious power play by owners, who want to pressure players into accepting their latest proposal and see how they respond to public pressure. On Thursday night, the NFL Players Association executive board and 32 player reps opted not to vote on the proposal. Players finally received a copy late Thursday of what the owners had passed, but their initial response wasn't favorable. They think they are being played.

Said one player who was on a conference call with the NFLPA and reps: "What they said they voted on were things we didn't even agree to. Players were ticked off at owners and have just dug a deeper trench."

...

Players, who might vote on the proposal Friday, are calling this the owners' version of a CBA, not the players'.

why are the owners playing these bush league games?

[Joremarid]

Yes it's fair. You think if I work at wal mart and they want to cut back my hours I can demand to see wal marts most highly guarded financial documents. That's one thing no one said is that it was a ridiculous request. Just because they play football doesnt make them special. The whole concept of a union came about to truly protect workers. People were dying or being permanently harmed at their jobs. Now that concept is being bastardized and for what?? Because Vincent Jackson would rather make 7 million in new York instead of San Diego. Or because the players want 10 OTA's instead of 12. Or because it's just a little too hot for me to put on pads twice in August. Go join the Phillies pitching staff if that's the case.

no offense but walmart employees are replaceable. NFL players aren't. we couldn't even fill the dome to watch the terrible professional players of the 2007 falcons. you think we will fill the dome to watch scrubs?

[Quizztorris]

they may not have gotten the official documents but were told about the additions by the owners through their lawyers. also b/c the players didn't specifically say what was the issue doesn't mean they don't know. knowing something and publicly speaking about it are two different things.

So they'd get up on camera and say "the league's demand that we recertify is preposterous and potentially illegal". And when they asked them what else they disagreed with they'd then respond "I don't feel at liberty to name specific details". That doesn't make sense. They can name the one thing Dee and George fed them yet the rest of the document is supposed to be some guarded secret?

[Quizztorris]

no offense but walmart employees are replaceable. NFL players aren't. we couldn't even fill the dome to watch the terrible professional players of the 2007 falcons. you think we will fill the dome to watch scrubs?

Would u rather have no football at all?? That's where the players are taking us. Also, every player is replaceable. There are special ones, but they're all replaceable.

[Joremarid]

So they'd get up on camera and say "the league's demand that we recertify is preposterous and potentially illegal". And when they asked them what else they disagreed with they'd then respond "I don't feel at liberty to name specific details". That doesn't make sense. They can name the one thing Dee and George fed them yet the rest of the document is supposed to be some guarded secret?

i believe it's ok to publicly talk about a potential violation of law but keep secret talks about legal agreements.

[morehouse11]

Yes it's fair. You think if I work at wal mart and they want to cut back my hours I can demand to see wal marts most highly guarded financial documents. That's one thing no one said is that it was a ridiculous request. Just because they play football doesnt make them special. The whole concept of a union came about to truly protect workers. People were dying or being permanently harmed at their jobs. Now that concept is being bastardized and for what?? Because Vincent Jackson would rather make 7 million in new York instead of San Diego. Or because the players want 10 OTA's instead of 12. Or because it's just a little too hot for me to put on pads twice in August. Go join the Phillies pitching staff if that's the case.

Actually sir, Walmart's HIGHLY GUARDED financial documents our available for free for everyone to see on the website www.sec.gov, and please dont ever draw a correlation between working at Walmart and being an NFL player. I understand the NFL is a private business, so they are not entitled to show their financial documents. However the problem comes when EVERYONE knows ALL the owners in the NFL are making a killing (values of franchises, popularity of game, TV contracts) and then they came out and said we are not making enough? Thats like someone looking telling you the sky doesnt appear blue to the human eye. When you can look right outside and see a clear blue sky.

[Joremarid]

Would u rather have no football at all?? That's where the players are taking us. Also, every player is replaceable. There are special ones, but they're all replaceable.

if we dont' have football it's b/c the owners locked out the players. you don't need a cba for football. the players are not on strike, they are locked out by the owners.

also if the players are replaceable from a financial aspect how come we couldn't even fill the dome to watch bad, but still professional, football players (like in 2007 and in many other years previously)?

[Quizztorris]

i believe it's ok to publicly talk about a potential violation of law but keep secret talks about legal agreements.

Ummm you have it backwards. You DON'T talk about issues with pending legal issues and do talk about the others. have you heard the statement "I cannot comment on that because there's ongoing legal issues". Good try though.

[raysnill1]

if it's true that the owners added stuff to the cba that wasn't agreed on with the players then how can this not be the owners fault? of course the players need to go through every page of this document that's hundreds of pages long to see what the owners tried to sneak in.

[HouseofEuphoria]

if we dont' have football it's b/c the owners locked out the players. you don't need a cba for football. the players are not on strike, they are locked out by the owners.

If we dont have football it's b/c of the billion dollar lawsuits hanging over the NFLs head, and those wont see court till November.

Also, you have to have a CBA to play football.

And the players have to reform as a Union for the CBA to even be legal.

I dont see the players reforming as a union.

And i dont see them dropping any lawsuits, either.

Now, who's holding up football?

The players could have recertified as a Union and dropped the anti-trust suits Wednesday and we'd be playing football right now.

[Quizztorris]

Actually sir, Walmart's HIGHLY GUARDED financial documents our available for free for everyone to see on the website www.sec.gov, and please dont ever draw a correlation between working at Walmart and being an NFL player. I understand the NFL is a private business, so they are not entitled to show their financial documents. However the problem comes when EVERYONE knows ALL the owners in the NFL are making a killing (values of franchises, popularity of game, TV contracts) and then they came out and said we are not making enough? Thats like someone looking telling you the sky doesnt appear blue to the human eye. When you can look right outside and see a clear blue sky.

Bad example then but the point still stands and is valid. Also you act like the players are victims here. Last i checked they're making a killing too. Also your term "killing" needs to be put in perspective. The players don't put anything into the system yet they want to be treated almost as co owners when it comes to reaping the profits. In any business situation the person that takes the most risk should get the greater reaward. The players have no risk, and instead, have GUARANTEED contracts.

[Joremarid]

again john clayton:

This was an obvious power play by owners, who want to pressure players into accepting their latest proposal and see how they respond to public pressure. On Thursday night, the NFL Players Association executive board and 32 player reps opted not to vote on the proposal. Players finally received a copy late Thursday of what the owners had passed, but their initial response wasn't favorable. They think they are being played.

Said one player who was on a conference call with the NFLPA and reps: "What they said they voted on were things we didn't even agree to. Players were ticked off at owners and have just dug a deeper trench."

...

Players, who might vote on the proposal Friday, are calling this the owners' version of a CBA, not the players'.

again how can this tactic be defended? their was an agreement in place and owners changed it on their own at the 11th hour and the players are supposed to automatically go with it?

[Quizztorris]

How is it a power play when the players asked them for the finalized cba the night before. As far as "slipping stuff in" I'd once again ask, tell me specifics. The only kind of tricky thing I heard was one thing that said "anything not negotiated by Wednesday will revert to the old cba rules". Well the reason for that is because the players are not a union. There are additional items that need to be addressed ONLY after the players recertify and this was language intended to allow that.

[Joremarid]

How is it a power play when the players asked them for the finalized cba the night before. As far as "slipping stuff in" I'd once again ask, tell me specifics. The only kind of tricky thing I heard was one thing that said "anything not negotiated by Wednesday will revert to the old cba rules". Well the reason for that is because the players are not a union. There are additional items that need to be addressed ONLY after the players recertify and this was language intended to allow that.

the owners and the players had a "handshake agreement". each side must then officially vote on it. the owners voted on a different CBA then the one previously agreed on. again, how can this be defended?

just b/c you or i don't know the specifics of the differences does not mean they don't exist.