The Official Please Fire Fredi Gonzalez Thread

[Dharma Initiative]

I admit I liked the hire when it first happened, but now I see why the Marlins got rid of this useless *******.

He refuses to fix the hitting situation! Our hitting is as bad as anyone in baseball and he just tips his cap to opposing pitchers and acts like everything will be fine. How Parrish is still our hitting coach is beyond me. Between Parrish and Pendleton we have inherited 25 HR McLouth, 25 HR Gonzalez, 30 HR Uggla, and yet they are all stinking. Heyward looks completely lost. Just look how far back he stands from the plate. We don't have anyone good in the outfield besides Prado.

His bullpen usage is awful! Not only did he try to kill Venters, now he seems almost too scared to even try him. Why would we ever use Proctor in a 1 run lead???

He never argues EVER! I know that arguing never gets a call overturned, but Jesus stand up for your players! It gets a little respect and a tossout can sometimes rally your players. Fredi just asks the umpire and shrugs his shoulders and heads back to the dugout.

Squeeze bunts! They aren't working, stop using them!

It doesn't take a mastermind to win the games we have with this starting rotation. It does take someone to manager the rest and Fredi has been completely awful at it. Even the biggest opponents to Bobby Cox have to respect him more while watching Gonzalez 'manage' this team.

Edited July 4, 2011 by Dharma Initiative

[mookie3127]

i wasn't a fan of the hire to begin with. i would have preferred the organization to "shop around" rather than telegraph from the day Freddi was fired that he'd be our guy. yeah he's a familiar face that the guys like, but it's way too much like a younger bobby cox that's content with mediocre baseball. record wise, we're playing great ball, but the bullpen is way over used, the hitting is horrendous (with the exception of mccann), and i just don't see this team playing much better than what we've seen. it's like freddi is content with the mediocre play and therefore his players are ok with it. i don't see any fire this team or coaching staff....an ember at best. i just don't care for the hire or the way we're playing offensively.

[ATL Fan in the DMV]

To say that I have been disappointed in Fredi is quite an understatement. He handicaps this team with this smug determination to keep doing things that make no sense. Such as:

Lineup Construction: Schafer leadoff, Gonzo/Lugo in the #2 spot, leaving Uggla in the #5 spot too long even though it was the spot that saw the most RISP, etc.

Bullpen Usage: Has zero idea of what leverage is, overuses our elite pitchers (Venters/Kimbrel/EOF), underuses good pitchers(Martinez, Gearrin especially), and inappropriately uses the awful pitchers (Proctor!!!!!!!).

In-Game Tactics: Hit and Running with low contact hitters like Uggla and slow runners on first like Freeman MULTIPLE times in a span of a couple weeks. Squeeze plays. Over-bunting. Not bunting when we should (Gonzo at the plate, runners on 1st and 2nd, no outs, and in the throes of an 0-for-forever slump), not using Ross as a RH PH...

Overall: Doesn't seem to really stick up for his players, should probably fire Parrish for his aggressive hitting approach alone, and a smug way of answering media questions that is replete with stupidity and short on logic.

If I was Wren, I would fire him in the offseason. And until he does, Fredi will continue to handicap this team and prevent us from reaching our true potential. He should count himself lucky: He inherited a 90+ win team that may just win enough games to bail him out. And unfortunately for us, that would be just our luck, too.

EDIT: For more exclamation points! AH!!!!!

Edited July 4, 2011 by I Am The Truth

[sdogg]

I was for the hiring, but now that Ive seen him in action firsthand, I'm ready to see him gone. I agree with all the points made by the top 3 posters.

[youngbloodz]

I am never a fan of firing someone in the middle of the year. Let's just see what happens in the offseason. Maybe he does fire Parrish. I want Parrish gone. But maybe Fredi doesn't want to fire him in the middle of the season.

[Chili Dog]

If the Braves get no hit again tonight, both should be fired immediately.

[Dharma Initiative]

I am never a fan of firing someone in the middle of the year. Let's just see what happens in the offseason. Maybe he does fire Parrish. I want Parrish gone. But maybe Fredi doesn't want to fire him in the middle of the season.

Even the Indians knew it was time to fire their hitting coach weeks ago. When we have the lowest hitting average in baseball last month...it can't get any worse replacing Parrish

[ugadawg]

I disagree with firing him.

Several posters have bashed Freddi for his bullpen usage. They bash him for using a scrub and not using one of our studs yet then they bash him for over using our studs. You cant have it both ways. Has he been perfect no not even, but he has not done bad with what he has.

Hitting. Yes I am disappointed too. I do not think Parrish is a good fit with our players. I did not like TP either. A change might be good, but I do not think our FO will do it in the season.

Lineup. I will give him credit for moving pieces around trying to find one that works. He is trying to make it work. He can not hit the ball for them. He is trying to manufacture a run any way he can. You guys said it yourself we have the lowest avg in the game yet you bash our manager for trying anything. I bet if he did nothing you would be yelling bunt, squeeze, hit and run do something.

just give the man the season to see the final product.

Fighting for his players. wow is this the same group that was calling Cox out for that. How many times did we hear he just wanted tossed. Freddi does not have to run out and get tossed to have his player back. He can handle it in the club house and the players will respond.

Freddi has kept this team playing hard and giving effort. They are still winning and have not given up. He is doing his job. With the difficulty hitting they could have easily packed it up for the season. Under his leadership they have not done that.

[Dharma Initiative]

I disagree with firing him.

Several posters have bashed Freddi for his bullpen usage. They bash him for using a scrub and not using one of our studs yet then they bash him for over using our studs. You cant have it both ways. Has he been perfect no not even, but he has not done bad with what he has.

Hitting. Yes I am disappointed too. I do not think Parrish is a good fit with our players. I did not like TP either. A change might be good, but I do not think our FO will do it in the season.

Lineup. I will give him credit for moving pieces around trying to find one that works. He is trying to make it work. He can not hit the ball for them. He is trying to manufacture a run any way he can. You guys said it yourself we have the lowest avg in the game yet you bash our manager for trying anything. I bet if he did nothing you would be yelling bunt, squeeze, hit and run do something.

just give the man the season to see the final product.

Fighting for his players. wow is this the same group that was calling Cox out for that. How many times did we hear he just wanted tossed. Freddi does not have to run out and get tossed to have his player back. He can handle it in the club house and the players will respond.

Freddi has kept this team playing hard and giving effort. They are still winning and have not given up. He is doing his job. With the difficulty hitting they could have easily packed it up for the season. Under his leadership they have not done that.

his bullpen usage is horrible. He was using O'Flarety, Venters, and Kimbrel together for way too long. Break them up, let them pitch more than one inning every now and again. Spread them out.

Pendleton might have been bad, but at least we were patient and that seemed to work a lot better.

Freddi never argues with an umpire. He rarely comes out of the dugout. Just look yesterday at Chipper's strikes, the least Freddi could do was get mad and show a little passion for once.

The team is winning, but it could be a helluva lot better if he'd do something about the awful hitting coach. I guarantee if you put Mclouth, Gonzalez, and Uggla with a decent hitting coach they'd be just fine again. This team is winning because the starting pitching has been awesome. That doesn't have anything to do with Freddi's strategies.

[youngbloodz]

You right it can't get any worse if he fires Parrish. But maybe Fredi is like Cox in that respect. Will give people chance after chance after chance

[ugadawg]

his bullpen usage is horrible. He was using O'Flarety, Venters, and Kimbrel together for way too long. Break them up, let them pitch more than one inning every now and again. Spread them out.

Pendleton might have been bad, but at least we were patient and that seemed to work a lot better.

Freddi never argues with an umpire. He rarely comes out of the dugout. Just look yesterday at Chipper's strikes, the least Freddi could do was get mad and show a little passion for once.

The team is winning, but it could be a helluva lot better if he'd do something about the awful hitting coach. I guarantee if you put Mclouth, Gonzalez, and Uggla with a decent hitting coach they'd be just fine again. This team is winning because the starting pitching has been awesome. That doesn't have anything to do with Freddi's strategies.

Well if he didnt use EOF,Vent, Kimb together we might not have as many wins as we have. Pitching 2 innings is still just as tiring. Even with your set up he would still have to use the other guys.

Our starters are great but they rarely go deep. So yes Freddi's strategy does come into play. He also has done a good job using plenty of subs while we have been injured. He has tried to sit players in bad match ups also.

[ATL Fan in the DMV]

ugadawg, see that's the thing. We probably would have about the same number of wins regardless. Why? Because Fredi insists on using that trio in low-leverage situations at times. For example, using Venters in that 5-1 game the other day. Historically, there is an overwhelming 95%+ chance that the team with a 4 run lead late in the game will win--regardless of who the relief pitcher is.

And more importantly, who cares about wins now when wins later in the season and the playoffs count much more? If overusing and abusing his elite receivers continues, they WILL be less effective when it matters most.

In other words, if Fredi was using guys appropriately and based on leverage, we wouldn't be having this discussion. But he isn't. And because of it, he is indefensible.

You are right about the lineup, he is trying to make it work. But, that doesn't mean you still do things that are historically stupid and make no sense from a baseball logic standpoint. It's okay to hit and run at times, but you don't do it with low contact hitters and slow baserunners. Yet Fredi does it way too often. Bunting is fine, when done appropriately. It's okay to do something different, but doing something different for the sake of trying to change things up does NOT excuse stupidity and a lack of logic.

And finally, he has kept this team playing hard and not giving up. I'll agree with you there. However, that's a small part of his job. In the end, he won't be measured on that. He will be measured on W/L, how he improved the ballclub, and how he put the team in a position to win everyday by maximizing their talent and potential. Those are the measuring sticks for managers, and unfortunately for us, he is drawing that short stick on all but the first one (and even then he is costing us).

[shaudyshaudback]

Fredi Gonzalez > Bobby Cox

[Shotty Ice]

[Dharma Initiative]

Maybe he gave up on arguing because he never did it to the umpire's face

[falconsd56]

SMH.... only braves fans would be calling for the head of team that could very well have over 50 wins going into the all star break.

[ATL Fan in the DMV]

SMH.... only braves fans would be calling for the head of team that could very well have over 50 wins going into the all star break.

See, this line of thinking is exactly what I'm afraid most fans have adopted. Yeah, we have won a lot of games, but if your manager is holding you back from winning more games and continually puts your team in a position that decreases their chances of winning, isn't that, I dunno, the very definition of him NOT doing his job?

I hope Wren isn't stupid enough to think that way.

It's easy to rack up close to 50 wins by the ASB when you inherit a 90 win team. I don't hate the man, I just believe that if he continues to manage like he has so far with us, we will continue to underachieve. He can't go out there and hit the ball, pitch, or defend, but he makes the calls on where everyone hits, who pitches in what situation and for how long, who gets used off the bench and in what role, and when to steal/hit and run/bunt/whatever. And so far, anyone who has watched the Braves without heavily-tinted rose-colored glasses can see that Gonzalez is costing us.

An unborn Ray Charles could see that.

EDIT: AGon is hitting 2nd, again, in tonight's lineup. Arguably our worst hitter on the team, with an career OBP of <.300, is TERRIBLE with RISP, and is in the midst of a slump, is your #2 hitter tonight. I mean, I just don't know what else to say.

Edited July 4, 2011 by I Am The Truth

[falconsd56]

See, this line of thinking is exactly what I'm afraid most fans have adopted. Yeah, we have won a lot of games, but if your manager is holding you back from winning more games and continually puts your team in a position that decreases their chances of winning, isn't that, I dunno, the very definition of him NOT doing his job?

I hope Wren isn't stupid enough to think that way.

It's easy to rack up close to 50 wins by the ASB when you inherit a 90 win team. I don't hate the man, I just believe that if he continues to manage like he has so far with us, we will continue to underachieve. He can't go out there and hit the ball, pitch, or defend, but he makes the calls on where everyone hits, who pitches in what situation and for how long, who gets used off the bench and in what role, and when to steal/hit and run/bunt/whatever. And so far, anyone who has watched the Braves without heavily-tinted rose-colored glasses can see that Gonzalez is costing us.

An unborn Ray Charles could see that.

EDIT: AGon is hitting 2nd, again, in tonight's lineup. Arguably our worst hitter on the team, with an career OBP of <.300, is TERRIBLE with RISP, and is in the midst of a slump, is your #2 hitter tonight. I mean, I just don't know what else to say.

really? its "easy"

lets see the braves outfield had been on DL at the same time,

The teams best pure hitter is still on the DL.

The braves have had to dip into the farm system multiple times for guys to pitch because of injuries.

The power threat traded for has not produced, and there has been several other issues. Yet the braves have one of the top 3 records in baseball.

There is nothing "easy" about baseball.

[Shotty Ice]

See, this line of thinking is exactly what I'm afraid most fans have adopted. Yeah, we have won a lot of games, but if your manager is holding you back from winning more games and continually puts your team in a position that decreases their chances of winning, isn't that, I dunno, the very definition of him NOT doing his job?

I hope Wren isn't stupid enough to think that way.

It's easy to rack up close to 50 wins by the ASB when you inherit a 90 win team. I don't hate the man, I just believe that if he continues to manage like he has so far with us, we will continue to underachieve. He can't go out there and hit the ball, pitch, or defend, but he makes the calls on where everyone hits, who pitches in what situation and for how long, who gets used off the bench and in what role, and when to steal/hit and run/bunt/whatever. And so far, anyone who has watched the Braves without heavily-tinted rose-colored glasses can see that Gonzalez is costing us.

An unborn Ray Charles could see that.

EDIT: AGon is hitting 2nd, again, in tonight's lineup. Arguably our worst hitter on the team, with an career OBP of <.300, is TERRIBLE with RISP, and is in the midst of a slump, is your #2 hitter tonight. I mean, I just don't know what else to say.

Dude WhoTF do you want to put @ 2?

Fredi Gonzalez has shuffled this lineup upside down 50x over in a desperate attempt to find an order that works, and NOTHING has. Our offense sucks, and that's just the facts of it. Outside of Freeman and McCann, and Prado who isn't playing, nobody on this team hits.

Gonzalez hits and runs so much because he's trying to find a spark SOMEWHERE, from ANYONE. Nobody has stepped up and there's just not much to do at this point.

It ******* blows my mind that people could ever ***** this much about a guy who in his first 3 months managing our team has us at an elite level with the likes of Philadelphia, New York, and Boston. So ******* stupid to complain about this guy.

Every fanbase outside of Atlanta is laughing at you ******* clowns who hates Gonzalez when we've got the 3rd best record in baseball.

[R.C. Collins]

Dude WhoTF do you want to put @ 2?

Fredi Gonzalez has shuffled this lineup upside down 50x over in a desperate attempt to find an order that works, and NOTHING has. Our offense sucks, and that's just the facts of it. Outside of Freeman and McCann, and Prado who isn't playing, nobody on this team hits.

Gonzalez hits and runs so much because he's trying to find a spark SOMEWHERE, from ANYONE. Nobody has stepped up and there's just not much to do at this point.

It ******* blows my mind that people could ever ***** this much about a guy who in his first 3 months managing our team has us at an elite level with the likes of Philadelphia, New York, and Boston. So ******* stupid to complain about this guy.

Every fanbase outside of Atlanta is laughing at you ******* clowns who hates Gonzalez when we've got the 3rd best record in baseball.

^this

........I am actually doing this for a headshot post.

[ATL Fan in the DMV]

Dude WhoTF do you want to put @ 2?

Fredi Gonzalez has shuffled this lineup upside down 50x over in a desperate attempt to find an order that works, and NOTHING has. Our offense sucks, and that's just the facts of it. Outside of Freeman and McCann, and Prado who isn't playing, nobody on this team hits.

Gonzalez hits and runs so much because he's trying to find a spark SOMEWHERE, from ANYONE. Nobody has stepped up and there's just not much to do at this point.

It ******* blows my mind that people could ever ***** this much about a guy who in his first 3 months managing our team has us at an elite level with the likes of Philadelphia, New York, and Boston. So ******* stupid to complain about this guy.

Every fanbase outside of Atlanta is laughing at you ******* clowns who hates Gonzalez when we've got the 3rd best record in baseball.

Lul, what's up with the negatives, bro? ANYONE is better at #2 than Gonzo. Go read about lineup optimization, and then you will know why hitting him #2 is insane. Oh wait, I'll even provide the link if you are too lazy to go there yourself. The Book is the definitive resource for all people who want to talk intelligently about baseball. The link is here: Click

Your argument INSTANTLY became invalid once you spouted off how many wins we got and that it, somehow, is reason enough to keep him and look past his egregious errors as manager.

People should stop making excuses, take off the blinders, and call it what it is. This is a good team saddled with a bad manager. No shame in that. It's easier to get rid of a manager than it is to field a good team.

And "first three months as manager" as an excuse? How lame. He isn't some rookie, he has managed for several years in the bigs before. Besides, his experience, or lack thereof, has NOTHING to do with this. It's the fact that he makes moves that make NO sense from a baseball perspective. Not sure how you can't see this.

[ATL Fan in the DMV]

really? its "easy"

lets see the braves outfield had been on DL at the same time,

The teams best pure hitter is still on the DL.

The braves have had to dip into the farm system multiple times for guys to pitch because of injuries.

The power threat traded for has not produced, and there has been several other issues. Yet the braves have one of the top 3 records in baseball.

There is nothing "easy" about baseball.

You clearly don't get my point. It's a wonderful thing that we are where we are. Gonzo does deserve some credit for that...and that I will give him. But make no mistake about it: This team is where it is because it has had other-worldly pitching the entire year. You are right, we have had a rash of injuries coupled with underperformance, but our pitching has not been guilty of the latter like our entire offense has. Gonzo's decisions in regards to the things I cited in prior posts are damning, and whether we were injury-free or not underperforming, those mistakes by him would cost us even more.

My primary concern is that if he keeps this pattern up now when the stakes are low, it will exponentially increase the damage they cause as we march toward the playoffs.

[falconsd56]

actually putting a struggling hitter at the top DOES make some baseball sense.

Gonzo, Uggla, Heyward, who ever are going to get better pitches to hit when hitting in front of a guy like McCann who is on fire right now as opposed to say they hit infront of the pitcher.

Now they have to perform there but from a baseball strategy mindset it makes tons of sense

[Dharma Initiative]

actually putting a struggling hitter at the top DOES make some baseball sense.

Gonzo, Uggla, Heyward, who ever are going to get better pitches to hit when hitting in front of a guy like McCann who is on fire right now as opposed to say they hit infront of the pitcher.

Now they have to perform there but from a baseball strategy mindset it makes tons of sense

Our leadoff guy also bats like .225 which is probably the lowest in the majors.

[ATL Fan in the DMV]

Did you read the link I posted for Headshot (he won't read it, he will just ignore it)? I get that it can help at times, but doing it time and time again makes zero sense. Alex is who he is, a below-average hitter that fields well enough to start but hits and gets on base too little to be anywhere near the top 6 spots in the order.

Alex's problem isn't about seeing better pitches...his problem is swinging at anything within 10 feet of the strike zone and striking out way too much. And when he does get something to hit, especially with RISP, he finds a way to get out.

EDIT: Obviously directed at falconsd56.

Edited July 4, 2011 by I Am The Truth