Which CB-DE combo would you rather

[The Dirty Bird]

This is purely hypothetical and I was just wondering what people would rather the Falcons do if we had a 1st round pick next year.

Arguments can be made for both sides, and I've changed my mind a few times before actually making my own decision.

I voted for sign a DE this year and draft Kirkpatrick next year, and I'll explain why.

I really like Kroy Biermann, but Biermann is a RDE and he is playing LDE because we do not have a true LDE -- this is hurting our defense because Biermann can be an impact player from his right position. People are predicting a breakout year for Biermann but I don't see it. Even if we don't sign a DE (signing a DE would prevent any sort of breakout happening), Biermann is out of position on the left side of the line. His natural size is at 255 lbs and he's up in the 270s right now -- this has taken away from the explosiveness he showed in his 1st season, and he also can't hold the point against big OTs which are the usual for the right side of the O-line. We've got two good CBs, two improving young safeties, and two young guys who can step up into the nickel CB role in Chris Owens and Dominique Franks.

Owens nor Franks will develop if we do not improve our pass rush, meaning we will have missed on two draft picks if we do not do something about it. If we bring in Charles Johnson (my preference) or Ray Edwards, this does a few things: 1) Immediately upgrades our LDE spot with a true force at LDE. Our pass rush will improve and our run defense will improve. 2) Allows Biermann to slim back down to 255 and be a swing DE. Further down the line, he can takeover as our everydown RDE when Abe hangs it up. 3) By not becoming a swing DE, Biermann can rotate in with Abraham instead of playing every LDE snap. This will allow JA55 to stay fresh throughout games and deep into the season, and should also add a year or two to his career.

The easier part of this was choosing between Kirkpatrick and Coples -- I am a huge Kirkpatrick fan. Patrick Peterson got a ton of hype this year as being the best CB prospect since Revis, but I like Kirkpatrick over Peterson and think he will be the better player. Peterson is phenomenal, and is faster than Kirkpatrick, but Peterson has mental lapses occasionally where he gets beat, and Kirkpatrick is also bigger and smoother in coverage. Kirkpatrick is a very rare 6'3, 200 lbs CB with 4.4 speed. He's excellent in coverage and he is excellent in run support. While Peterson is 6 ft tall, he may still lose the jump ball contest vs a Julio Jones, Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, etc -- big WRs with incredible leaping ability. To be fair, most CBs in the NFL would lose that contest, that's why a fade on the goal line to these WRs is more or less an unstoppable move and one that a O-coordinator always dials up. When you put in a stud 6'3 CB on a 6'3 WR and both have very good verticals, then you can take that elite WR out of the game plan.

Brent Grimes has elite athletic ability but his height prevents him from covering the big good WRs like Andre, Fitz, Colston, Nicks, etc. Dunta also has trouble against these WRs, but both are good CBs. By signing a DE this offseason, we give Owens or Franks a chance to claim the NB job and be good at it. If that doesn't work out, we could bring in Kirkpatrick and bump Grimes inside to NB. Now, to maximize our talent, we will naturally run a nickel defense (3 CBs on the field) 75% of the time -- all 3 of our CBs are good run defenders. Our two LBs will be Lofton and Weatherspoon in our base D; in obvious run situations our 2 LBs will be Lofton and Dent, or we can bring in 3 LBs; and in obvious passing situations we can use Weatherspoon and Dent or just Weatherspoon and bring in a 4th CB -- Owens or Franks. At this point, we will have an elite defense.

This is no knock against Grimes, just respect for Kirkpatrick and his elite skill set. Factor in that Dunta will be 30 next year and we could use two stud CBs under 28 moving forward. Grimes may also seem young because his name is newly on the scene, but he is turning 28 next month. If we wait until both are 30 to try to bring in a #1 CB, we will be screwed for the future and we'd take major steps backward. Getting a very young CB with elite potential into the fold on the sooner side will not only help us now, but also for the future (big time).

Reason against Nnamdi and Coples: Nnamdi is turning 30 in a couple weeks and while he'd help now, his best years may be behind him. Charles Johnson is 25 and Ray Edwards is 26 -- each would provide 4 or 5 more years of great play over their stay with the team than Nnamdi. Coples is a very good prospect, but there are some other good DEs that will enter the draft over the next few years while Kirkpatrick is head and shoulder better than the rest of the CBs in college football.

[abcranford2]

well....i mean don't get me wrong, i think kirkpatrick will be a stud..but i don't think he'll be entering the draft next year

[Knight of God]

I'd like to get Weddle, Aso, Gholston, Anthony Gray, and Manny Lawson

[ch46745]

This is purely hypothetical and I was just wondering what people would rather the Falcons do if we had a 1st round pick next year.

Arguments can be made for both sides, and I've changed my mind a few times before actually making my own decision.

I voted for sign a DE this year and draft Kirkpatrick next year, and I'll explain why.

I really like Kroy Biermann, but Biermann is a RDE and he is playing LDE because we do not have a true LDE -- this is hurting our defense because Biermann can be an impact player from his right position. People are predicting a breakout year for Biermann but I don't see it. Even if we don't sign a DE (signing a DE would prevent any sort of breakout happening), Biermann is out of position on the left side of the line. His natural size is at 255 lbs and he's up in the 270s right now -- this has taken away from the explosiveness he showed in his 1st season, and he also can't hold the point against big OTs which are the usual for the right side of the O-line. We've got two good CBs, two improving young safeties, and two young guys who can step up into the nickel CB role in Chris Owens and Dominique Franks.

Owens nor Franks will develop if we do not improve our pass rush, meaning we will have missed on two draft picks if we do not do something about it. If we bring in Charles Johnson (my preference) or Ray Edwards, this does a few things: 1) Immediately upgrades our LDE spot with a true force at LDE. Our pass rush will improve and our run defense will improve. 2) Allows Biermann to slim back down to 255 and be a swing DE. Further down the line, he can takeover as our everydown RDE when Abe hangs it up. 3) By not becoming a swing DE, Biermann can rotate in with Abraham instead of playing every LDE snap. This will allow JA55 to stay fresh throughout games and deep into the season, and should also add a year or two to his career.

The easier part of this was choosing between Kirkpatrick and Coples -- I am a huge Kirkpatrick fan. Patrick Peterson got a ton of hype this year as being the best CB prospect since Revis, but I like Kirkpatrick over Peterson and think he will be the better player. Peterson is phenomenal, and is faster than Kirkpatrick, but Peterson has mental lapses occasionally where he gets beat, and Kirkpatrick is also bigger and smoother in coverage. Kirkpatrick is a very rare 6'3, 200 lbs CB with 4.4 speed. He's excellent in coverage and he is excellent in run support. While Peterson is 6 ft tall, he may still lose the jump ball contest vs a Julio Jones, Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, etc -- big WRs with incredible leaping ability. To be fair, most CBs in the NFL would lose that contest, that's why a fade on the goal line to these WRs is more or less an unstoppable move and one that a O-coordinator always dials up. When you put in a stud 6'3 CB on a 6'3 WR and both have very good verticals, then you can take that elite WR out of the game plan.

Brent Grimes has elite athletic ability but his height prevents him from covering the big good WRs like Andre, Fitz, Colston, Nicks, etc. Dunta also has trouble against these WRs, but both are good CBs. By signing a DE this offseason, we give Owens or Franks a chance to claim the NB job and be good at it. If that doesn't work out, we could bring in Kirkpatrick and bump Grimes inside to NB. Now, to maximize our talent, we will naturally run a nickel defense (3 CBs on the field) 75% of the time -- all 3 of our CBs are good run defenders. Our two LBs will be Lofton and Weatherspoon in our base D; in obvious run situations our 2 LBs will be Lofton and Dent, or we can bring in 3 LBs; and in obvious passing situations we can use Weatherspoon and Dent or just Weatherspoon and bring in a 4th CB -- Owens or Franks. At this point, we will have an elite defense.

This is no knock against Grimes, just respect for Kirkpatrick and his elite skill set. Factor in that Dunta will be 30 next year and we could use two stud CBs under 28 moving forward. Grimes may also seem young because his name is newly on the scene, but he is turning 28 next month. If we wait until both are 30 to try to bring in a #1 CB, we will be screwed for the future and we'd take major steps backward. Getting a very young CB with elite potential into the fold on the sooner side will not only help us now, but also for the future (big time).

Reason against Nnamdi and Coples: Nnamdi is turning 30 in a couple weeks and while he'd help now, his best years may be behind him. Charles Johnson is 25 and Ray Edwards is 26 -- each would provide 4 or 5 more years of great play over their stay with the team than Nnamdi. Coples is a very good prospect, but there are some other good DEs that will enter the draft over the next few years while Kirkpatrick is head and shoulder better than the rest of the CBs in college football.

Just because Nnamdi is turning 30 doesn't mean that his best days are behind him. Charles Woodson was about the same age when Green Bay acquired him and look how that turned out. I'm not taking anything away from Matthews, Raji, and Tramon Williams but Woodson is the Packers most deadliest weapon on defense despite of being almost 35 years old. I believe that we could utilize Nnamdi similar to how Green Bay uses Woodson and that would bring our defense to a higher level.

Edited June 19, 2011 by ch46745

[I Even Bleed Red]

Aso will be 30 next month and will ask for a lot of money. We already signed DR last year for big money. And we have Grimes opposing him. If they play well, then we'll be okay. I think DeCoud and Moore will be good safeties this year. Now we just need to address our #3 and #4 CB situation, and our secondary is set. We don't have a lot of help opposing Abe on our DLine. Charles Johnson is at the prime of his career. He will also ask for big money (not as much as Aso, though), but he will provide a consistent pass rush for a long time.

[Quarterback]

If you'd asked the same question and excluded all names I would have picked DE now, CB later. However, adding the names changing it dramatically as Nnamdi is the best in the game and all the FA DE options are not a 100% guarantee to be significantly better than what we have...likely but not a certainty.

Basically I chose Nnamdi and whatever and wherever we can improve at DE. Nnamdi on one side, Robinson of the other, and Grimes as the NB and insurance if one of the other two has an injury would be one of the elite defensive backfields in the game.

[I Even Bleed Red]

If you'd asked the same question and excluded all names I would have picked DE now, CB later. However, adding the names changing it dramatically as Nnamdi is the best in the game and all the FA DE options are not a 100% guarantee to be significantly better than what we have...likely but not a certainty.

Basically I chose Nnamdi and whatever and wherever we can improve at DE. Nnamdi on one side, Robinson of the other, and Grimes as the NB and insurance if one of the other two has an injury would be one of the elite defensive backfields in the game.

That does sound good, no lie. But I much rather prefer Nnamdi and Grimey oppsoing each other with DR in the slot. Oh, and don't forget about Moore and DeCoud. They are one of the best young safety tandems.

But does Abe and Charles Johnson opposing each other with Peters and Babs in the middle (Jerry, Beerman, and JA98 for rotational depth) sound bad??

Edited June 19, 2011 by I Even Bleed Red

[Zodiac]

Are you on crack? Quentin Couples is a top 10 pick

[ch46745]

The problems that I have about us trying to sign a DE is that it is not 100% certain that Charles Johnson will be an unrestricted free agent and that Ray Edwards may want more money then he is worth at this time. The reason why I say that Nnamdi is a good choice because he will be a unrestricted free agent and is a highly proven commodity that will certainty bring the defense up to another level.

[kane#7]

Are you on crack? Quentin Couples is a top 10 pick

LOL and we don't have a 1st...

[RHEC]

Why couldn't TD just sign a top DE and Aso together?

Edited June 19, 2011 by Skar

[Falcon UK]

Nnamdi creates the potential for coverage sacks. The suggestion that his best years might be behind him seems unlikely considering the guy was thrown at less times last season than games he played I believe.

[The Dirty Bird]

I forgot to mention: this is John Abraham's last year under contract so we need a proven DE in the fold in case we can't get something worked out with him and a team offers him a ton of money and we don't match it.

If we don't sign a DE and John Abraham leaves in free agency, or has a serious fall off in production and we don't want to bring him back for the contract he wants, then we will be in SERIOUS trouble on defense with just Kroy Biermann as our lone defensive end and no 1st or 2nd round draft pick.

If we sign Ray Edwards or Charles Johnson, then Kroy can slim back down to his ideal weight and be our RDE when JA55 leaves.

Imagine how much trouble we'd be in if we entered the 2012 season with just Kroy Biermann at DE and no 1st or 2nd round draft pick. We'd be screwed and our defense would take GIANT leaps backwards. This is why we need to sign a DE this offseason -- our front office acknowledged its our biggest defensive need by contemplating a move up in the 1st round for a DE but then choosing a to move up for a WR, essentially showing their hand that they will go for a DE in free agency.

[The Dirty Bird]

Are you on crack? Quentin Couples is a top 10 pick

Are you on crack/cannot read the first sentence in bold.

[The Dirty Bird]

And let me say: I'd love if we got Nnamdi, but the 2012 DE situation is very murky if we do not bring in a DE.

And I do not think Nnamdi will not be an elite CB for a few more years, but he is already 30 years old and teams make bad decisions when they sign 30 year old players to long-term big contracts -- it's in the history of the game. For every Charles Woodson there are 4,000 other players who got big deals at 30 that ended up not being worth it after 33.

I think Nnamdi would be worth it, but we'd only get 1 contract out of him. Bringing in a Charles Johnson or a Ray Edwards, who are 5 and 4 years younger than Nnamdi respectively -- would bring them to us for 8 years or so, so for two contracts and they'd be true Falcons.

I guess I'm a little biased because I'm a huge Dre Kirkpatrick fan and I think he'll shortly become the #2 CB in the NFL, behind Revis.

[Zodiac]

Are you on crack/cannot read the first sentence in bold.

So you'd expect us to finish with a losing record bad enough to select coples????!?!?!?

[FlyHighFalcons]

Neither of those DE/CB prospects will be available when we're picking.

[FalconState]

I think we should sign one of the DEs and then we can draft one next year if we need to

[Falconcheff]

I remember a few months back a poster put up a thread that spelled out the many reasons that to be successful, you need to get pressure with your FRONT FOUR. Blitzes may get you to the playoffs, but playoff calibur qb's will eat your blitz alive.

We have GOT TO UPGRADE our front four to get consistent pressure without having to rely on the blitz. For my money, sign all the DLmen we can afford!!

[FalconFan87]

Just because Nnamdi is turning 30 doesn't mean that his best days are behind him. Charles Woodson was about the same age when Green Bay acquired him and look how that turned out. I'm not taking anything away from Matthews, Raji, and Tramon Williams but Woodson is the Packers most deadliest weapon on defense despite of being almost 35 years old. I believe that we could utilize Nnamdi similar

to how Green Bay uses Woodson and that would bring our defense to a higher level.

I couldn't agree more, I feel on Defense we need more "go to guys" we need another Elite player or two on that unit and I think we can be a top notch Defense. I had been advocating getting Antonio Cromartie, Nnamdi is another guy I'd be very happy to see playing for us.

[ATLFalcfan]

If you'd asked the same question and excluded all names I would have picked DE now, CB later. However, adding the names changing it dramatically as Nnamdi is the best in the game and all the FA DE options are not a 100% guarantee to be significantly better than what we have...likely but not a certainty.

Basically I chose Nnamdi and whatever and wherever we can improve at DE. Nnamdi on one side, Robinson of the other, and Grimes as the NB and insurance if one of the other two has an injury would be one of the elite defensive backfields in the game.

This. With Nnamdi and Robinson and Grimes as nickel, we'd have such good coverage, it'd be hard not to get to the QB with our existing D lineman. Although I think Grimes would be a great nickel, I think he'd also rotate in with the other guys and get his fair share of opportunities.

[Banned]

I accidentally voted for CB-DE. Oops. Sign a DE is what I meant to to vote for. Defense is not a defense without some sort of pass rush.