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Yea, a friend of mine is hyping me up on the books and had to explain the "Rains of Castamere" being the Lannister's anthem and the band playing that at the reception, etc. Things like that are missed by I'd say at least 95% of people that don't read internet spoilers or the book and just watch the show. I'll probably break down and read the first 2 books and then wait.

Lol good luck with that. laugh.png

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I'm reading the books right now i'm almost done with book 1 but ever since last episode i've had to stop reading them to try and get over what happened

Lol good luck with that. laugh.png

Yer that was my plan, but once you pop you can't stop.... especially where it will leave off in season 3.... that book is far too good not to finish.

Also DW that is one of the most important things that happens in the series but it is not the last shocker... heck book 3 is just non stop.

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Question to the book readers:

A friend of mine loves the first 3 books (especially 3) but said he found himself frustrated with books 4 & 5 and seems to think Martin is "dragging things out". He said the books are very detail-oriented but he seems to believe he's milking the franchise a bit at this point. Just trying to get the opinions of other readers.

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Question to the book readers:

A friend of mine loves the first 3 books (especially 3) but said he found himself frustrated with books 4 & 5 and seems to think Martin is "dragging things out". He said the books are very detail-oriented but he seems to believe he's milking the franchise a bit at this point. Just trying to get the opinions of other readers.

I agree with that. Partially due to the style of FoC and half of DoD (splitting character stories) and partially due to weakened/drawn out plot-lines.
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Question to the book readers:

A friend of mine loves the first 3 books (especially 3) but said he found himself frustrated with books 4 & 5 and seems to think Martin is "dragging things out". He said the books are very detail-oriented but he seems to believe he's milking the franchise a bit at this point. Just trying to get the opinions of other readers.

Kind of... the issue with books 4 & 5 is they are kinda 1 book but split into areas not time... so you don't get caught up with some characters you like in an entire book.

The other thing is after book 3 it would be hard to keep that momentum because that book is insane.

If I was making a GoT play I would have books 1, 2 and 3 as Act 1, books 4 & 5 as Act 2 and Books 6 & 7 as Act 3.

So books 4 and 5 are mainly dealing with the major changes to the story that happened in book 3 so it is kind of a dust settling to prepare for the final act.

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grey wind, the life slipping out of him as the arrows sink into his skin, looks up to see arya stark and even though he couldn’t possibly recognize her, not when it has been so long and she has changed so much, he understands - or maybe it is Robb, within him, that knows instead - that his sister is with him, that he doesn't die alone.

http://maisiewilliams.tumblr.com/post/52024929760/grey-wind-the-life-slipping-out-of-him-as-the

zWSDa.jpg

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I thought it was haunting to say the least, almost as much as it was when I first read that chapter. Didn't get to sleep until about 1 AM afterwards because I just couldn't get it out of my head.

The most shocking death was Talisa's IMO. I never would have imagined they would actually go all Wack-a-Mole on a pregnant woman. Everyone in my living room (all non-readers) simultaneously sat up and was like OHHH!!! Awesome moment for sure. One girl was watching with us still refuses to believe that it happened. She thinks it was either Bran or Jojen's dream. She finally has accepted it after days of assuring her that it wasn't, but now she doesn't want to watch the show anymore.

The fight in the backstreets of Yunkai was cool but I found it ridiculous that they didn't at least show them opening the front gates and the Unsullied rushing in. The whole scene where Jorah comes back and was like "you should have seen us Dany we won!" And then she immediately friend-zones the sh^t out of him was hilarious. I wish they would have saved that for episode 10 though, it felt very out of place in this one.

I still haven't really figured out why 25 Wildlings needed to storm across an open field like lunatics to kill one elderly man. I laughed my *** off at that because in all of the trailers I was thinking that scene was the Wildlings raiding some small village. If they wanted to take the guy unaware they could have just sent Ygritte alone to sneak across and take him out before he even knew they were there.

The scene after that with Bran and company was really awesome. Nice to see another cameo from the direwolves.

At first I was pissed because we barely got anything happening outside of the Twins with the Northern army, but the preview for ep. 10 looks like its going to show us the carnage outside.

Talisa's murder was definitely the most brutal part of that scene, and especially since that begins the slaughter. The second is the long pause in between Catelyn slashing Frey's wife's throat and the assassin coming behind her and slashing her throat. That's probably the most affected by a scene in a TV show that I've been. I was expecting to see the gates opened as well. I guess they blew the budget on the red wedding and direwolves SFX.

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I'd like to have seen the Red Wedding as one who hadn't read the books.

It was certainly shocking.

I'm just mad because the show will be without some eye candy for a little while.

But no. I love the unpredictability of the story and the TD "no sacred cow" approach. It's missing in today's fiction. Too many dodged bullets in today's cinema and TV.

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It was certainly shocking.

I'm just mad because the show will be without some eye candy for a little while.

But no. I love the unpredictability of the story and the TD "no sacred cow" approach. It's missing in today's fiction. Too many dodged bullets in today's cinema and TV.

She was fine. From the first time she was on the screen I thought, "Oh no, she's way too fine to have THAT small of a role. She'll be back."

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I wish that the show could have done a better job conveying how much Robb's bannermen loved and respected him.

tumblr_mdstp7jjQu1rv7ke3o1_500.png

That annoyed me I wanted to see Smalljon getting shot by arrows but all he cares about is protecting Robb by throwing a table on top of him.

That is what made that chapter so heartbreaking the Northmen protected thier King until thier final breaths.

The North Remembers.

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I like to think of Feast and Dance as the 'eye of the storm.' You had the first three books which were the beginning of it, culminating in the complete sh^tstorm that was the middle of Storm of Swords to the end. The Red Wedding is essentially the end of the war, so a lot of books 4 & 5 are showing you the fallout from the War of the Five Kings and how it has effected the realm, as well as introducing a whole slew of new characters, including the 7th Great House which we haven't even heard about in the show yet.

The way book 5 ends though, the eye is about to pass and the rest of the storm is about to hit hard.

Whenever I do my re-read I'm going to do the combined reading order for Feast and Dance.

The Boiled Leather Audio Hour Episode 20!

Feastdance: The Combined Reading Order for A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons

Hang on to your hardcovers, fire up those ebooks, and arrange the dulcet tones of Roy Dotrice into an appropriate iTunes playlist: Today Stefan and I are discussing the combined reading order I came up with for reading A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragonssimultaneously. As you’re no doubt aware, the concerns that kept these two novels apart — they cover the same period of time, only with different characters at the forefront — were primarily IRL logistical ones. Weaving their chapters back together creates a very different reading experience, revealing aesthetic and thematic unities that make it well worth the effort. For both Stefan and myself, this has become the method of choice for reading this second-act section of A Song of Ice and Fire. In this podcast, we’ll explain why.

Here are a few links you might want to take a look at as you listen:

My original combined reading order

My new-reader-friendly combined reading order (this preserves the Dorne reveal; I actually prefer this one now)

My entire series of “Feastdance” posts on reading the two books together and what I got out of it

Stefan’s essay on the two books’ parallel themes for Tower of the Hand

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If anyone's interested in historical precedence, The Red Wedding is largely inspired by two historical Scottish events, one of which I've heard a great deal about and the other I just read about today.

The Glencoe Massacre is a pretty widely known event that has been romanticized in novels, plays, and poems. The Massacre was perpetrated by Clan Campbell who were under guest protection against their hosts, Clan McDonald of Glencoe.

The second one is known as The Black Dinner of 1440, where the 6th Earl of Douglas was invited to Edinburgh Castle of the Scottish boy King James II. During the feast, the King's men began beating on a drum in the hall and presented the Earl with the head of a black boar on a covered plate, a Scottish sign of death. The Earl was dragged from the hall, given a mock trial that found him guilty, and beheaded in the courtyard.

During the Battle of Wakefield, Richard of York was killed and Edward’s brother Edmund, inexperienced in warfare, only seventeen, and injured, was executed by John Clifford (“the butcher”). The Lancastrians mounted both Richard of York and his son’s heads on the City of York’s gate to rot – a fate reserved for common criminals and traitors. Worse, the Lancastrians placed a paper crown on Richard of York’s head – allegedly at the queen’s suggestion – to mock Richard of York’s claim to the throne.

The Red Wedding, the smallfolk are calling it.They swear Lord Frey had the boy’s head hacked off, sewed the head of his direwolf in it’s place, and nailed a crown about his ears.

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May I just take a moment to say a big Thank You and Kudos to all of you book readers who have known about the Red Wedding, and what was coming this past week, and did not tip it off to the rest of us. I for one appreciate having been allowed to fully experience that episode as an unknowing. It must have actually been incredibly hard for all readers not to somehow let it slip somewhere, sometime. That scene was GOLD!

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