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JHav

HBO: Game of Thrones

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“I have just come from the high table,” Lord Wyman went on. “I have eaten too much, as ever, and all White Harbor knows my bowels are bad. My friends of Frey will not question a lengthy visit to the privy, we hope.”

~~~~~~~

[Roose:] “Someone has been killing my men.” […]

"We must look at Manderly," muttered Ser Aenys Frey. "Lord Wyman loves us not."

[Roger] Ryswell was not convinced. “He loves his steaks and chops and meat pies, though. Prowling the castle by dark would require him to leave the table. The only time he does that is when he seeks the privy for one of his hour-long squats.”

~~~~~~~

The morning after the wedding Harwood Stout, Lady Dustin’s sworn man, was seen talking quietly with Whoresbane Umber, a known associate of Lord Manderly from ACOK.

On the dais, Lord Wyman Manderly sat between a pair of his White Harbor knights, spooning porridge into his fat face. He did not seem to be enjoying it near as much as he had the pork pies at the wedding. Elsewhere one-armed Harwood Stout talked quietly with the cadaverous Whoresbane Umber.

Lady Dustin has Theon take her to the crypts because she’s just that morning heard of Bran and Rickon’s survival from Manderly, via Stout and Whoresbane. Lady Dustin’s true purpose in the crypts is to confirm Wex’s story. She oversold her Stark hate to Theon so as to minimize suspicions.

~~~~~~~

"Night’s work is not knight’s work,” Lady Dustin said. “And Lord Wyman is not the only man who lost kin at your Red Wedding, Frey. Do you imagine Whoresbane loves you any better? If you did not hold the Greatjon, he would pull out your entrails and make you eat them, as Lady Hornwood ate her fingers. Flints, Cerwyns, Tallharts, Slates…they all had men with the Young Wolf.”

“House Ryswell too,” said Roger Ryswell.

“Even Dustins out of Barrowton.” Lady Dustin parted her lips in a thin, feral smile. “The north remembers, Frey."

~~~~~~~

If the Hornwoods, Cerwyns, and Tallharts haven’t yet realized just who’s responsible for their misfortunes, Manderly can and will certainly inform them.

~~~~~~~

So Manderly pretends he has to take all these wicked sh-ts when he's actually off conspiring against the Frey's and Bolton's with the other northern lords.

He mocks the Frey's to their faces ("The best pie you have ever tasted, my lords. Wash it down with Arbor gold and savor every bite. I know I shall.") and has Abel (Mance) sing "The Rat Cook" while he feeds them pies made from the three missing Frey's (Rhaegar,Symond, and Jared).

And he openly antagonizes the Frey's after the death of Little Walder ("Though mayhaps this was a blessing. Had he lived he would have grown up to be a Frey").

In short Wyman is the Cartman of Westeros.

qDyemsO.gif

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“I have just come from the high table,” Lord Wyman went on. “I have eaten too much, as ever, and all White Harbor knows my bowels are bad. My friends of Frey will not question a lengthy visit to the privy, we hope.”

~~~~~~~

[Roose:] “Someone has been killing my men.” […]

"We must look at Manderly," muttered Ser Aenys Frey. "Lord Wyman loves us not."

[Roger] Ryswell was not convinced. “He loves his steaks and chops and meat pies, though. Prowling the castle by dark would require him to leave the table. The only time he does that is when he seeks the privy for one of his hour-long squats.”

~~~~~~~

The morning after the wedding Harwood Stout, Lady Dustin’s sworn man, was seen talking quietly with Whoresbane Umber, a known associate of Lord Manderly from ACOK.

Lady Dustin has Theon take her to the crypts because she’s just that morning heard of Bran and Rickon’s survival from Manderly, via Stout and Whoresbane. Lady Dustin’s true purpose in the crypts is to confirm Wex’s story. She oversold her Stark hate to Theon so as to minimize suspicions.

"Night’s work is not knight’s work,” Lady Dustin said. “And Lord Wyman is not the only man who lost kin at your Red Wedding, Frey. Do you imagine Whoresbane loves you any better? If you did not hold the Greatjon, he would pull out your entrails and make you eat them, as Lady Hornwood ate her fingers. Flints, Cerwyns, Tallharts, Slates…they all had men with the Young Wolf.”

“House Ryswell too,” said Roger Ryswell.

“Even Dustins out of Barrowton.” Lady Dustin parted her lips in a thin, feral smile. “The north remembers, Frey."

~~~~~~~

If the Hornwoods, Cerwyns, and Tallharts haven’t yet realized just who’s responsible for their misfortunes, Manderly can and will certainly inform them.

So Manderly pretends he has to take all these wicked sh-ts when he's actually off conspiring against the Frey's and Bolton's with the other northern lords. He openly antagonizes the Frey's after the death of Little Walder ("Though mayhaps this was a blessing. Had he lived he would have grown up to be a Frey"). He mocks the Frey's to their faces ("The best pie you have ever tasted, my lords. Wash it down with Arbor gold and savor every bite. I know I shall.") and has Abel (Mance) sing "The Rat Cook" while he feeds them pies made from the three Freys (Rhaegar,Symond, and Jared).

In short Wyman is the Cartman of Westeros.

qDyemsO.gif

(spoilers)

27 Jun

Freyshadowing

2 Aug

Further Freyshadowing

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Agreed 100% about Headey. She was awesome as drunk Cersei in Blackwater.

We were not one of those people who was with this series from the beginning though, so I imagine if I had to wait 5 years for a half-finished book with my favorite characters missing I might have been pretty pissed off too, now that I think about it. I sorta look at Feast and 96% of Dance as the eye of the storm. Everything calms down and gets back to politics for a little bit, but as you approach the last few chapters of Dance, all the gears start turning again and it's like 3 or 4 chapters in a row of fan-hitting sh*t.

The only thing that bothered me about Feast was the Brienne chapters, and that's because we also had a Sansa POV going in the same book, so you know where Sansa is and you know that Brienne is just aimlessly wandering around. It's really the only criticism I've had of Martin in the entire series. If you wanted to make Brienne's search for Sansa interesting, then you shouldn't have shown us what happened to Sansa until the end of Feast instead of at the end of Storm.
Totally agree with this. There are other instances of "near misses" in characters either meeting or reuniting, but there's never so much time devoted to those instances, and it's never so clear that they are never going to meet. I get that it showed the devastation to the Riverlands, but a few chapters of that would have sufficed, not as many as he included.

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That was Joffrey. Tyrion figured it out.
agree that tyrion strongly believes that, but has it been confirmed?
I'm still confused about this. I think Jamie also comes to the conclusion as well. But . . . why would he do that? He didn't know about Jamie and Cersei. Was he just being a prick?

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As a book reader and a subscriber to a popular theory this made me smile....

Also this isn't really a spoiler as no one really knows as the person who could have told us lost his head at KL.

Also the Starks are pretty close to the Seven when you look at it.

  • Father, or the Father Above, representing judgment. He is depicted as a bearded man who carries scales, and is prayed to for justice. Eddard Stark

  • Mother, or the Mother Above, representing motherhood and nurturing. She is prayed to for fertility or compassion, and is depicted as smiling with love, embodying the concept of mercy. Cat

  • Warrior, representing strength in battle. He is prayed to for courage and victory. He carries a sword. Rob

  • Maiden, representing innocence and chastity. She is usually prayed to to protect a maiden's virtue. Sansa

  • Smith, representing crafts and labor. He is usually prayed to when work needs to be done, for strength. He carries a hammer. Rikkon (this one is only because it is the only one that doesn't fit as I don't think Rikkon has built anything)

  • Crone, representing wisdom. She carries a lantern and is prayed to for guidance. Bran

  • Stranger. An exception to the other aspects, the Stranger represents death and the unknown. Worshipers rarely seek favor from the Stranger, but outcasts sometimes associate themselves with this god. Arya

Yeah, I get why that made you smile now. Provided that theory is true, Ed wasn't quite as complex as I once thought. Out of his enduring sense of honor, he let the entire world think he was not honorable, all to keep the secret.

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I keep entertaining the idea that the producers are going to head f^ck the book readers and resurrect (the more popular) Talisa instead of Cat but the undead wife doesn't have quite the same ring to it as Catlyn, mother and vengeful Tully/Stark (but then again maybe they can play up the unborn child anger). In the books I'm also warming up to the idea of Cat sacrificing her "life" for the possibly murdered Jon Snow as her redemption to Ned so there'd be that angle too. Still it's something to think on.
I think that would totally ruin the Lady Stoneheart character. It's so creepy in the books that she can't really speak because they cut her throat so deep. You lose that if you bring back Talisa.

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BTW shot, I started Blood Meridian last night, just the first chapter. The style without quotation marks is definitely strange, but I picked up on it.

I know I'm in the minority on this one, but I didn't like Blood Meridian. And I enjoy CM's other books.

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I know a few people who are the same way actually. For them it was the level of violence. Same for you or did you not like the story?

I don't have any issue with the violence. I just found it tedious. There were some parts I really enjoyed but for the most part I was just kind of bored with it. I've never had a book of that length take me so long to read. And I've read the Silmarillion. I even read half of it, put it down for 6 months, and started again from the beginning. I don't know...I really wanted to like it.

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I understand why people complain about AFFC - it's definitely the series’ most introspective volume and basically all aftermath and place-setting - but I don't share their negative view.

The two main themes GRRM is trying to convey with this series are the true cost of war and the price of cultural misogyny. In AFFC you see how the smallfolk have to deal with the depredations of war and banditry. The book has an intentionally wandering, wallowing nature - you can practically get lost in burned-out villages and muddy fields inhabited by sociopaths and victims as far as the eye can see. And virtually every major disaster that befalls Westeros or Essos and their people can be directly linked to the subjugation of women as second-class citizens - through primogeniture, sexist chivalry, arranged marriage, rape as a weapon of war and fact of life.

Furthermore the quality of GRRM's writing, itself, only improves as the series progresses. Septon Meribald's "Broken Men" speech in AFFC about the nature of war is the heart and soul of the series and also probably its best written passage.

In his graduation photograph, in 1971, his mortarboard is customised with a white peace sign. It was the height of America’s involvement in Vietnam, and ‘like every young American male of my generation, I had to determine what I felt about it,’ he says. He applied for conscientious objector status. ‘I didn’t expect to get it because I wasn’t a pacifist. I felt then and I feel now that sometimes war is necessary.’ He was awarded C.O. status and spent two years as a Vista (Volunteer in Service to America) in Chicago.

War, or the threat of it, takes up much of A Song of Ice and Fire – as well as much of Martin’s house. A giant sword and axe are mounted on the hall wall, and when he flicks a switch in the tower, dozens of intricately painted medieval dioramas are illuminated. ‘I’m fascinated by war,’ Martin admits. ‘War brings out the best and the worst in people. Literature of the past used to celebrate the glory of war; then the hippie generation in the 1970s wrote about the ugliness of it. I think there’s truth in both.’

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Other than the whole deal with repeating "Have you seen a maid of three-and-ten?", I don't really agree with the complaints about the Brienne chapters.

Septon Meribald's "Broken Men" speech -

Back on the road, the septon said, “We would do well to keep a watch tonight, my friends. The villagers say they’ve seen three broken men skulking round the dunes, west of the old watchtower.”

“Only three?” Ser Hyle smiled. “Three is honey to our swordswench. They’re not like to trouble armed men.”

“Unless they’re starving,” the septon said. “There is food in these marshes, but only for those with the eyes to find it, and these men are strangers here, survivors from some battle. If they should accost us, ser, I beg you, leave them to me.”

“What will you do with them?”

“Feed them. Ask them to confess their sins, so that I might forgive them. Invite them to come with us to the Quiet Isle.”

“That’s as good as inviting them to slit our throats as we sleep,” Hyle Hunt replied. “Lord Randyll has better ways to deal with broken men—steel and hempen rope.”

“Ser? My lady?” said Podrick. “Is a broken man an outlaw?”

“More or less,” Brienne answered.

Septon Meribald disagreed. “More less than more. There are many sorts of outlaws, just as there are many sorts of birds. A sandpiper and a sea eagle both have wings, but they are not the same. The singers love to sing of good men forced to go outside the law to fight some wicked lord, but most outlaws are more like this ravening Hound than they are the lightning lord. They are evil men, driven by greed, soured by malice, despising the gods and caring only for themselves. Broken men are more deserving of our pity, though they may be just as dangerous. Almost all are common-born, simple folk who had never been more than a mile from the house where they were born until the day some lord came round to take them off to war. Poorly shod and poorly clad, they march away beneath his banners, ofttimes with no better arms than a sickle or a sharpened hoe, or a maul they made themselves by lashing a stone to a stick with strips of hide. Brothers march with brothers, sons with fathers, friends with friends. They’ve heard the songs and stories, so they go off with eager hearts, dreaming of the wonders they will see, of the wealth and glory they will win. War seems a fine adventure, the greatest most of them will ever know.

“Then they get a taste of battle.

“For some, that one taste is enough to break them. Others go on for years, until they lose count of all the battles they have fought in, but even a man who has survived a hundred fights can break in his hundred-and-first. Brothers watch their brothers die, fathers lose their sons, friends see their friends trying to hold their entrails in after they’ve been gutted by an axe.

“They see the lord who led them there cut down, and some other lord shouts that they are his now. They take a wound, and when that’s still half-healed they take another. There is never enough to eat, their shoes fall to pieces from the marching, their clothes are torn and rotting, and half of them are shitting in their breeches from drinking bad water.

“If they want new boots or a warmer cloak or maybe a rusted iron halfhelm, they need to take them from a corpse, and before long they are stealing from the living too, from the smallfolk whose lands they’re fighting in, men very like the men they used to be. They slaughter their sheep and steal their chickens, and from there it’s just a short step to carrying off their daughters too. And one day they look around and realize all their friends and kin are gone, that they are fighting beside strangers beneath a banner that they hardly recognize. They don’t know where they are or how to get back home and the lord they’re fighting for does not know their names, yet here he comes, shouting for them to form up, to make a line with their spears and scythes and sharpened hoes, to stand their ground. And the knights come down on them, faceless men clad all in steel, and the iron thunder of their charge seems to fill the world…

“And the man breaks.

“He turns and runs, or crawls off afterward over the corpses of the slain, or steals away in the black of night, and he finds someplace to hide. All thought of home is gone by then, and kings and lords and gods mean less to him than a haunch of spoiled meat that will let him live another day, or a skin of bad wine that might drown his fear for a few hours. The broken man lives from day to day, from meal to meal, more beast than man. Lady Brienne is not wrong. In times like these, the traveler must beware of broken men, and fear them…but he should pity them as well.”

When Meribald was finished a profound silence fell upon their little band. Brienne could hear the wind rustling through a clump of pussywillows, and farther off the faint cry of a loon. She could hear Dog panting softly as he loped along beside the septon and his donkey, tongue lolling from his mouth. The quiet stretched and stretched, until finally she said, “How old were you when they marched you off to war?”

“Why, no older than your boy,” Meribald replied. “Too young for such, in truth, but my brothers were all going, and I would not be left behind. Willam said I could be his squire, though Will was no knight, only a potboy armed with a kitchen knife he’d stolen from the inn. He died upon the Stepstones, and never struck a blow. It was fever did for him, and for my brother Robin. Owen died from a mace that split his head apart, and his friend Jon Pox was hanged for rape.”

“The War of the Ninepenny Kings?” asked Hyle Hunt.

“So they called it, though I never saw a king, nor earned a penny. It was a war, though. That it was.”

Elder Brother's soliloquy is really good, too.

I fought for Prince Rhaegar, though he never knew my name. I could not tell you why, save that the lord I served served a lord who served a lord who had decided to support the dragon rather than the stag. Had he decided elsewise, I might have been on the other side of the river. The battle was a bloody thing. The singers would have us believe it was all Rhaegar and Robert struggling in the PIRATED VIDEO IS ILLEGAL for a woman both of them claimed to love, but I assure you, other men were fighting too, and I was one. I took an arrow through the thigh and another through the foot, and my horse was killed from under me, yet I fought on. I can still remember how desperate I was to find another horse, for I had no coin to buy one, and without a horse I would no longer be a knight. That was all that I was thinking of, if truth be told. I never saw the blow that felled me. I heard hooves behind my back and thought, a horse! but before I could turn something slammed into my head and knocked me back into the river, where by rights I should have drowned.

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I tried to read it as quickly as I could so I could get to ADWD, but I did enjoy it, especially the Jamie and Sansa chapters. I think my favorite part of it is the theme of religion. The other books deal with it, but it's such an integral part of AFFC. The way it shapes the various peoples lives, how the powerful use it to control the masses.

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Yeah I love AFFC. Brienne's journey drags, but there are some fantastic moments in her chapters as well. It's got a very post-apocalyptic feel to it, like McCarthy's The Road.

The only real problem I had with her chapters is us knowing where Sansa was already. I still say Sansa's rescuer should have been saved as a Feast reveal.

I truly hate Areo Hotah and Aeron Greyjoy as POV characters though, they're both equally pointless and mind-numbing.

I say we start a book discussion thread. Tired of all these got **** spoiler tags.

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Yeah I love AFFC. Brienne's journey drags, but there are some fantastic moments in her chapters as well. It's got a very post-apocalyptic feel to it, like McCarthy's The Road.

The only real problem I had with her chapters is us knowing where Sansa was already. I still say Sansa's rescuer should have been saved as a Feast reveal.

I truly hate Areo Hotah and Aeron Greyjoy as POV characters though, they're both equally pointless and mind-numbing.

I say we start a book discussion thread. Tired of all these got **** spoiler tags.

I second that emotion.

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