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JHav

HBO: Game of Thrones

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I do believe a lot of the complaints about show Stannis stem from the fact that the Stannis people have in their minds is the Stannis from the end of A Storm of Swords onward. The show isn't to that point in the story yet, so at this moment, just as in the books, Stannis is still an entitled c0cksucker who burns people alive and wants people to follow him. Stannis will finally start acting like a proper king, and the viewers will start liking him once

he saves the Nights Watch and crushes Mance Rayder's army
.

Up to this point in the show, I haven't really seen an adaptation of Stannis that is unredeemable or COMPLETELY different from the books. I hated Stannis up to this point in ASoS, and liked him a little more later on. I believe that is the entire point of his arc. People who already know where he ends up are the people seeing a different Stannis in the show. Patience, homies.

True, I started to like Stannis because I started seeing him as truely treating everyone as equal.

He doesn't care for titles but the content of a man's character.

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I'm with alot of people in the belief the Stannis will most likely go down in the final battle with the Others and he'll never sit the Iron Throne however I do think it's theoretically possible for Stannis to survive and step aside for another King provided he believed their claim was better than his own. With anyone else in the series you'd have to call them out on their bullsh^t, but when Stannis says that he seeks the Throne not because he wanted it but soley because it's his by right I think he truly believes it. Except if you really break it down, its not his throne, it's Danys (or Ageon's if you believe it's really him)

I think if it came down to it, and it was in the best interest of the realm, with some reluctance and much grinding of the teeth he'd put aside his claim. I could easily see him leading the armies of Westeros as commander of her forces in the final battle of good verus evil , though how Mel and her fiery god would feel about this is anyone's guess.

I don't think that really fits the narrative (Dany would have no reason to hold any sympathy for the "Usurper's brother" in any case) but I do see that as possible in his character.

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I'm with alot of people in the belief the Stannis will most likely go down in the final battle with the Others and he'll never sit the Iron Throne however I do think it's theoretically possible for Stannis to survive and step aside for another King provided he believed their claim was better than his own. With anyone else in the series you'd have to call them out on their bullsh^t, but when Stannis says that he seeks the Throne not because he wanted it but soley because it's his by right I think he truly believes it. Except if you really break it down, its not his throne, it's Danys (or Ageon's if you believe it's really him)

I think if it came down to it, and it was in the best interest of the realm, with some reluctance and much grinding of the teeth he'd put aside his claim. I could easily see him leading the armies of Westeros as commander of her forces in the final battle of good verus evil , though how Mel and her fiery god would feel about this is anyone's guess.

I don't think that really fits the narrative (Dany would have no reason to hold any sympathy for the "Usurper's brother" in any case) but I do see that as possible in his character.

It isn't really the Targs throne anymore they lost it in conquest, they have no actual rights to the throne the only way to get it back is through conquest.

Stannis is the one true King, you would be wise to remember that.

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It isn't really the Targs throne anymore they lost it in conquest, they have no actual rights to the throne the only way to get it back is through conquest.

Stannis is the one true King, you would be wise to remember that.

Stannis is not a conquest makes right kind of guy though. If he was he would've bent the knee to Renly's 100,000 or he'd be a hypocrite for denying the Lannister's their claim on the basis of their right by conquest. Instead he's a man of strict adherence to justice and the letter of the law. By his own admission supporting his own brother over a clearly unfit to rule mad king was still an extremely close thing. Ultimately it can be argued that Aerys II loses his right to rule because he can no longer fulfill his proper duty as protector of the realm, but this shouldn't be reflected down to Rhaegar, Dany or even Viserys in their right. (whether the kingdom should be put in the hands of a family whose wild sometimes inbred genetics makes half of them crazy and the other half brilliant is a question for another argument)

The Baratheon dynasty is later justified to the law of the realm because they are of distant Targaryen blood. Their House founder Orys Baratheon was Aegon the conqueror's half brother and they have since inter married with each other several times. (Robert is actually the great grandson of king Aegon V, maester Aemon's brother") Of any of the great houses they have the closest blood ties to the dragons. Otherwise Jon Arryn or Ned Stark might've been king. To be frank everyone from Joffery's regime to Stannis' claim come directly from perceived Targaryen descendance. It's only Renly whose claim as the younger brother seeks to break the cycle of tradition (Tower of the Hand has a great write up this). From everything Stannis says he believes in, then it's Dany's throne. Maybe he could pull the product of incest card but he seemed to have no problem with it prior to Robert's rebellion.

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I do believe a lot of the complaints about show Stannis stem from the fact that the Stannis people have in their minds is the Stannis from the end of A Storm of Swords onward. The show isn't to that point in the story yet, so at this moment, just as in the books, Stannis is still an entitled c0cksucker who burns people alive and wants people to follow him. Stannis will finally start acting like a proper king, and the viewers will start liking him once

he saves the Nights Watch and crushes Mance Rayder's army
.

Up to this point in the show, I haven't really seen an adaptation of Stannis that is unredeemable or COMPLETELY different from the books. I hated Stannis up to this point in ASoS, and liked him a little more later on. I believe that is the entire point of his arc. People who already know where he ends up are the people seeing a different Stannis in the show. Patience, homies.

I hope they stick more to his lines in the book and don't add in scenes like Davos showing him the letter from the Wall and Stannis promising to go north. It was so much more effective in the book

For Davos to read the letter, prepare to go to Stannis, and then you don't see them again for several hundred pages and his army shows up to win the battle beyond the Wall. That's such a great reveal that the show ruined. I mean I understand that they have to almost spell out certain things, because people are dumb, but I wish they would have left that scene out. Plus Stannis' grin was super awkward.

I bought AFFC last night, ******* bookstore didn't have a paper back ADWD, so I'll just read AFFC first and get ADWD later.

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The removal of some great dialogue between Stannis and Davos was really disappointing. Hopefully they'll make up for it next season.

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The removal of some great dialogue between Stannis and Davos was really disappointing. Hopefully they'll make up for it next season.

In the first few chapters after the Red Wedding, I thought there wasn't enough material to fill out Season 4. Holy balls was I wrong. I'm scared of what they will have to leave out of a 10 episode season.

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In the first few chapters after the Red Wedding, I thought there wasn't enough material to fill out Season 4. Holy balls was I wrong. I'm scared of what they will have to leave out of a 10 episode season.

Seriously, right?

They need to devote AT LEAST 20-30 minutes to the Red Viper vs. the Mountain duel.
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Seriously, right?

They need to devote AT LEAST 20-30 minutes to the Red Viper vs. the Mountain duel.
I hope so. I think they're going to have to skimp on the battle at castle black and initial attack of the wall to really show the battle beyond the wall in episode 9, with giants, mammoths, and Stannis' full host. I hope they let Dany say she's going to be queen of Mehreen in episode 8 or so and leave her out of it so they can focus on the events at the wall and and the Eryie in episode 10.

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From So Spake Martin:

told George that when he changed Viserys I from a son to a brother he created an error in that Baelor's sisters did not inherit the throne after him, George replied that women came after all men in the Targaryen succession after the Dance of the Dragons. Something interesting and neatly explains Daena and the rest not becoming queen.

There's also the fact Prince Daeron's daughter was passed over. There has never been a ruling Targaryen queen. It's pretty clear cut, he said women come after all men.

Also from the wiki: Since the Dance, House Targaryen has practiced a highly modified version of agnatic primogeniture, placing female claimants in the line of succession behind all possible males, even collateral relations.

Stannis is Dany's second cousin and first in the line of Targaryen succession. It would go: Rhaegar, Aegon, Viserys, Robert, Stannis, Renly, Dany, Rhaenys.

However, Targaryen succession is irrelevant anyway since they were dethroned. The Targaryens were the rightful rulers, which they became by killing and conquering the previous rulers. Then Robert Baratheon overthrew the Targaryens and (by virtue of having some Targaryen blood in him) became the rightful ruler. By that standard, Stannis is the rightful ruler.

At the end of the day in Westeros "might makes right". So if Dany comes back with dragons and a motley crew of armies, then the Targaryens will once again be the "rightful" rulers.

bWQMztL.jpg

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(Spoilers all)

14 Jun

youhavetouseyourhands asked: No way Stannis bends the knee to Dany. She is just another pretender in his eyes. As long as Mel is hy his side feeding him nonsense about being Azor Azhai, he'll continue on his self-entitled path.

Eventually, though, that nonsense will be dispelled by reality. It’s not as though Stannis is super-invested in being Azor Ahai — he just believes the evidence presented to him by Melisandre and is therefore taking up the obligation, in much the same way that despite his lack of desire to actually be king he knows that legally he is king and is thus obligated to be king de facto as well as de jure.

But we readers know he’s not Azor Ahai at all — Jon is. (And Dany and Tyrion if you buy my three-heads-has-the-dragon-theory.) Sooner or later this is going to be hard to miss. Meanwhile, Stannis doesn’t have his older brother’s beef against the Targaryens; he participated in the rebellion out of loyalty to his House, seemingly, and not out of any great hatred for the dragons or belief in the righteousness of the cause. Should a Targaryen heir present herself in a way that demonstrates her loyalty to the realm, her fitness to rule it, and her position as the prophesied savior, I think he will relinquish his claims.

30 Jun

aeslin-mouse asked: Your predictions for the character's fates makes me curious: why do you think Stannis will survive? For me, everything in his storyline points to a tragic demise, and the only thing I'm not sure about is whether it will be a heroic death/sacrifice or something far less triumphant.

Stannis is only in the game because he feels he’s obligated to be. Remove that obligation and he’s got nothing to kill or die for.

"... nothing to kill or die for."

No religion, too.

I stopped believing in gods the day I saw the Windproud break up across the bay. Any gods so monstrous as to drown my mother and father would never have my worship, I vowed. In King’s Landing, the High Septon would prattle at me of how all justice and goodness flowed from the Seven, but all I ever saw of either was made by men.

CLAYTON SUGGS: A sacrifice will prove our faith still burns true, Sire.

GODRY THE GIANTSLAYER: The old gods of the north have sent this storm upon us. Only R'hllor can end it. We must give him an unbeliever

STANNIS: Half my army is made up of unbelievers. I will have no burnings. Pray harder.

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I bought AFFC last night, ******* bookstore didn't have a paper back ADWD, so I'll just read AFFC first and get ADWD later.

ADWD was originally supposed to be released to paperback in Spring 2012, but it's been pushed back multiple times because the hardcover is still selling. Target has a release date of 10/29/13 for the paperback, but I suppose it's possible they'll delay it again.

http://www.target.co...ck/-/A-14124566

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ADWD was originally supposed to be released to paperback in Spring 2012, but it's been pushed back multiple times because the hardcover is still selling. Target has a release date of 10/29/13 for the paperback, but I suppose it's possible they'll delay it again.

http://www.target.co...ck/-/A-14124566

Well ****. I'll just buy it in hardcover when I finish AFFC. I want them all in hardcover eventually anyways.

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From So Spake Martin:

However, Targaryen succession is irrelevant anyway since they were dethroned. The Targaryens were the rightful rulers, which they became by killing and conquering the previous rulers. Then Robert Baratheon overthrew the Targaryens and (by virtue of having some Targaryen blood in him) became the rightful ruler. By that standard, Stannis is the rightful ruler.

At the end of the day in Westeros "might makes right". So if Dany comes back with dragons and a motley crew of armies, then the Targaryens will once again be the "rightful" rulers.

Keep in mind though Baratheon rule is obstinately still an extension of Targ rule. The Baratheon's never conquered Westeros, they instead conquered King's landing and the Iron throne with the understanding that the right to rule the seven kingdoms came with it even though their right to rule strongly independent areas such as Dorne and the Reach were fairly tenuous at best. Prior to the war of five kings the only thing really holding the realm from being a collection of seven independent kingdoms (as it was before the conquest) is Robert's dysfunctional marriage to Cersie and the power and wealth of Casterly Rock.

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(Spoilers all)

"... nothing to kill or die for."

No religion, too.

I stopped believing in gods the day I saw the Windproud break up across the bay. Any gods so monstrous as to drown my mother and father would never have my worship, I vowed. In King’s Landing, the High Septon would prattle at me of how all justice and goodness flowed from the Seven, but all I ever saw of either was made by men.

CLAYTON SUGGS: A sacrifice will prove our faith still burns true, Sire.

GODRY THE GIANTSLAYER: The old gods of the north have sent this storm upon us. Only R'hllor can end it. We must give him an unbeliever

STANNIS: Half my army is made up of unbelievers. I will have no burnings. Pray harder.

Like I said I don't think it's quite in the picture GRRM is ultimately painting but when considering a truly righteous man such as Stannis I don't think any plot development is out of the question concerning the final battle between Man and the Others. If the Onion Knight has shown us anything it's that the the seemingly "unbendable iron will" of Stannis Baratheon is quite capable of bending when in the face of the cold hard truth and justifiable alternatives. (and it's generally agreed that Stannis is not Azor Ahai and certainly not "the prince that was promised")

I don't think he'd acquiesce easily. He'd likely gnash his teeth the way he does and several times curse all parties involved to the seven heIIs and back but if he could be convinced that the fate of the realm would be better served in the hands of another whether that be Dany or "ahem" one of the other head's of the dragon, it is in the realm of possibility, even if it killed him a little inside.

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(spoilers all)

"Words. Words are wind. Why do you think I abandoned Dragonstone and sailed to the Wall, Lord Snow?"

"I am no lord, sire. You came because we sent for you, I hope. Though I could not say why you took so long about it."

Surprisingly, Stannis smiled at that. "You're bold enough to be a Stark. Yes, I should have come sooner. If not for my Hand, I might not have come at all. Lord Seaworth is a man of humble birth, but he reminded me of my duty, when all I could think of was my rights. I had the cart before the horse, Davos said. I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne." Stannis pointed north. "There is where I'll find the foe that I was born to fight."

I made the following prediction for Stannis in the last paragraph of this post:

I wish that in the end the Iron Throne could belong to Stannis, but I just don't think that's where the story is headed. Out of all the feasible candidates I feel that only Stannis and Jon Snow are fit to rule over Westeros. After Stannis defeats the Bolton's I think he might die fighting The Others. However, I think there could be another endgame for Stannis. Jon Snow was the 998th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. I don't expect the 999th to live long. Stannis will become the 1000th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch.

The shape of Westerosi society is very much a question mark following the conclusion of the series, so anything’s possible. However, after all we've been through, I don't see it ultimately returning to 7 kingdoms ruled over by a Targaryen with dragons.

Dany may sit the Iron Throne, but I don't think she'll survive long enough to really rule.

Jon is Azor Ahai reborn and to temper Lightbringer he will end up having to run Dany (his Nissa Nissa) through with it.

Stannis and Jon have a great deal of mutual admiration and respect for one another. I don't think Stannis would have any problem with standing aside for Jon.

I suspect that Stannis will have a life-altering experience when he goes to execute Theon.

tumblr_mcl12evPui1r9kfaxo1_500.jpg

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(spoilers all)

I made the following prediction for Stannis in the last paragraph of this post:

I wish that in the end the Iron Throne could belong to Stannis, but I just don't think that's where the story is headed. Out of all the feasible candidates I feel that only Stannis and Jon Snow are fit to rule over Westeros. After Stannis defeats the Bolton's I think he might die fighting The Others. However, I think there could be another endgame for Stannis. Jon Snow was the 998th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. I don't expect the 999th to live long. Stannis will become the 1000th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch.

The shape of Westerosi society is very much a question mark following the conclusion of the series, so anything’s possible. However, after all we've been through, I don't see it ultimately returning to 7 kingdoms ruled over by a Targaryen with dragons.

Dany may sit the Iron Throne, but I don't think she'll survive long enough to really rule.

Jon is Azor Ahai reborn and to temper Lightbringer he will end up having to run Dany (his Nissa Nissa) through with it.

Stannis and Jon have a great deal of mutual admiration and respect for one another. I don't think Stannis would have any problem with standing aside for Jon.

I suspect that Stannis will have a life-altering experience when he goes to execute Theon.

tumblr_mcl12evPui1r9kfaxo1_500.jpg

I'd love to see Jon complete his rise from ******* to full fill his destiny as blood of the Wolf and the Dragon but as a someone who is sworn to the Night's Watch and therefor forbidden from ever owning titles outside of those prescribed duties I just don't see how it will ever happen. Maybe after the final battle their will be no need for the Night's Watch and they will at last disband though the idea of a Westeros without any kind of criminal reform (and second chance that the wall offers) other than death and imprisonment is kind of a sad thought in and of itself.

Ultimatly if Dany survives I think she might choose to head back to slaver's bay and contiune her anti slavery crusade and the line of Targs in Westeros will be ended in name though their blood lives on in Jon, Tyrion (?) the Baratheons, Martells and a few others.

Edit: Really I can't say b@stard?

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ASOS question

After ASOS, having already seen Ned tell Robert in GOT that Wylla is Jon's mother, and Beric's squire telling Arya that was Jon's mother also, not having read the other books yet you're supposed to believe this to be the case, even though we know nothing about her?

I understand that this question still isn't settled, and there are theories as to who Jon's parent(s) might really be, but I don't want to know until I read for myself.

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ASOS question

After ASOS, having already seen Ned tell Robert in GOT that Wylla is Jon's mother, and Beric's squire telling Arya that was Jon's mother also, not having read the other books yet you're supposed to believe this to be the case, even though we know nothing about her?

I understand that this question still isn't settled, and there are theories as to who Jon's parent(s) might really be, but I don't want to know until I read for myself.

So what's your question?

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9274284_ori.jpg

GOT has cast former Rome actress Indira Varma to the role of Ellaria Sand.

Dead on balls accurate.

I like it.. Really looking forward to Arianne Matell and the Sandsnakes in season 5.

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