Saints weren't only ones looking to make move to get Ingram

[Dago]

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/29619596

[Guest jb aka johnnybuc]

http://www.cbssports...475988/29619596

That's interesting. I hadn't heard that but it makes perfect sense. I'm pretty sure the Cowboys are kicking themselves that they didn't. It seems like they may have had more ammo to move up with than even the Saints but the Saints pulled the trigger. Let's see what info PP and Vanilla can shed on it from their perspective.

[Dago]

There were some rumors of Atlanta talking about drafting him too...I think he is gonna be a solid back for years to come (unfortunately ).

with defenses having to respect Brees, we don't need a back as good as Purple Jesus back there...a starting quality back who can play a whole season would be a huge step up for our offense

[Guest jb aka johnnybuc]

with defenses having to respect Brees, we don't need a back as good as Purple Jesus back there...a starting quality back who can play a whole season would be a huge step up for our offense

Very True. As long as Brees is able to keep playing at his present level all the Saints really need is a back that can stay healthy and keep defenses honest. Ingram should definitely fit the bill.

[Lou_Dog]

still not sure what to think about this pick for the Saints. I am a hardcore Bama fan and have no doubt that Ingram is a **** of a runningback. Im just not sure if Payton will use him right. Ingram needs 20-25 carries a game and I dont think he will be given that load playing in N.O.s offense. Unless the Saints change their gameplan to rely alot heavier on the run, I think they would have been better off picking up a speedback. If they could find a back to give them what they thought Reggie would, that will be a scary offense.

[Dago]

still not sure what to think about this pick for the Saints. I am a hardcore Bama fan and have no doubt that Ingram is a **** of a runningback. Im just not sure if Payton will use him right. Ingram needs 20-25 carries a game and I dont think he will be given that load playing in N.O.s offense. Unless the Saints change their gameplan to rely alot heavier on the run, I think they would have been better off picking up a speedback. If they could find a back to give them what they thought Reggie would, that will be a scary offense.

go look at some 2006 game film of our offense with Deuce in his last year. Deuce had a helluva year and that was in his last season after two major knee surgeries. Ingram is closer to Deuce than anybody else we have and Payton used him just fine

[Guest jb aka johnnybuc]

I just can't wait to see how this division plays out. Saints are a little better than us on paper and on the field (as far as their games against us go), but we will ride the confidence of being South Champs along with 3 straight winning seasons to a playoff berth and HOPEFULLY a WIN this time!!

Kiddies talking Football.............NICE!

[Lou_Dog]

Yeah but Dago, in 2006 the Saints ran alot more. They have turned into a prime example of a pass first team. I am in know way cutting on the Saints with this post. Just wonder if they are going to make a drastic offensive change.

[SaintRay]

The Saints won't have to feed Ingram 25 times a game as suggested.

If Ingram can average 4.5 - 5.0/carry over the course of 15-18 touches per game, the Saints will have what they need. Combine that with PT/Ivory/Bush in combination touching the ball 15 times a game and you have the makings of 130+ yard/game from the rushing attack. This was the deal in 2009 and we saw the success it brought.

Even more critical will be the ability to pick up drive sustaining 1-2 yards on 3rd and 4th downs. Clearly the saints believe Ingram is their man.

[Aquietguy]

Yeah but Dago, in 2006 the Saints ran alot more. They have turned into a prime example of a pass first team. I am in know way cutting on the Saints with this post. Just wonder if they are going to make a drastic offensive change.

The only drastic change we need is a back that can stay healthy.

[falconsd56]

The same can be said for the selection of Julio. Both teams are going to have to modify their offenses to use their first round selections. The falcons will be under more pressure to fit Jones in given the price they paid.

Yes and no.

Ryan threw the ball 571 times in 2010.

Good for top 5 in the nfc.

and contrary to popular belief, we did take several shots down the field.

Jones just has to be a starter because he will have opportunities.

I would say they falcons would have more pressure to start him, rather then adapt the offense to include him. And while we still center our game around the run our passing attempts have gone up every year I do not see that changing.

The saints on the other hand have to have a fairly radical change of philosophy. They have been a pass first team.....even when their backs were healthy ( I go back to week one last year, the saints ran the ball THREE times in the first half, yet they have their full compliment of backs healthy I think they ended up with all of 25 attempts which was split between 3 backs..... that is not a lot of touches).

Payton is going to have try and recommit and be more balance then he has been every year except 09.

It is going to be interesting to see how teams play the saints. Part of their success in 09 running the ball came form the fact teams very honestly did not respect it and played the pass all the time. Teams will still be keying on Brees but the run wont be a surprise like it was in 09...that said that is easier said then done

We know how we are going to get played, teams are going to roll coverage to Whites side, they are going to bracket Gonzo and then put an extra man to stop turner.

It is going to be up the Jones and Ryan to exploit that.

[falconsd56]

The only drastic change we need is a back that can stay healthy.

I disagree. The numbers do not support that at all

Payton is a good coach and one of the better offensive minds in football but sometimes he gets too fixated on passing the ball.

Brees has had over 630 attempts every year except 06 and 09.

[pencilpusher. just because]

That's interesting. I hadn't heard that but it makes perfect sense. I'm pretty sure the Cowboys are kicking themselves that they didn't. It seems like they may have had more ammo to move up with than even the Saints but the Saints pulled the trigger. Let's see what info PP and Vanilla can shed on it from their perspective.

First I have heard of it truthfully. I really don't watch college ball like I should, but having looked up a lot of stuff on Demarco Murray. I'm as excited as a little girl at a Bieber concert. That dude( Demarco, not bieber) has some moves and he catches well out of the backfield.Ebven tho ingram is the bigger name, I know nothing about him except the headlines. I am ecstatic about Demarco, tho.Change of direction and burst of speed... :wub: :wub:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBFs5HZwyng

[Aquietguy]

I disagree. The numbers do not support that at all

Payton is a good coach and one of the better offensive minds in football but sometimes he gets too fixated on passing the ball.

Brees has had over 630 attempts every year except 06 and 09.

What numbers? What numbers showed that we had healthy backs? Couldn't be the fact that we almost practically bought in backs off the street. Or that we were solid running the ball when we were health. Ivory was a beast when he was healthy

[REV.2000]

with defenses having to respect Brees, we don't need a back as good as Purple Jesus back there...a starting quality back who can play a whole season would be a huge step up for our offense

THERE YOU GO DAGO, A QUALITY BACK WHO CAN PLAY

A WHOLE SEASON .... "YOU'RE IN BUSINESS."

[falconsd56]

What numbers? What numbers showed that we had healthy backs? Couldn't be the fact that we almost practically bought in backs off the street. Or that we were solid running the ball when we were health. Ivory was a beast when he was healthy

Even when healthy save 2009 the saints did not run the ball that much

Vs the vikings with a full compliment of backs, the saints ended up with 25 rushes...3 in the first half. saints had 40 pass plays called passes

Vs the niners again with health set of backs saints only ran the ball 24 times vs 38 passes

Vs falcons with a healthy PT and Ivory heading into game, the saints run the ball 16 times with another 38 passing attempts.... to put that into perspective the falcons BACK UP running back had 14 carries.

Vs Panthers with a healthy Ivory the saints gave their running backs 25 carries.... to 48 passes.

And all of these games were close contests where the saints had the lead for a big portion of the games, so it is not as if thy were down and had to throw.

So in 4 games when the saints were relativity healthy ( the only "running back" that was down was PT...because Bush is not a "running back" right? isn't that the saints excuse for his poor numbers?) the saints averaged roughly 23 rushes per game. that would be good for 30th in the nfl in terms of rushing attempts.

Like I said even when relatively healthy the saints have had a pass first mentality. That is a FACT.

For Ingram to be effective and to be worth the first round pick the saints gave up for him, Payton will need to be more dedicated to the run.... also Brees while did not take many sacks last year took A LOT of hits... more then any saints fan would like, They need to get back to running the ball more to keep teams from loading up and hammering on him.

[REV.2000]

I'm curious to see what the #2 wide outs targets were in 2010 and if that would live up to your standards for making Julio a success.

If not how many more throws would he have to get?

And who gets less throws? Or will that have an effect on Turners carries?

THATS DEEP!

[falconsd56]

I'm curious to see what the #2 wide outs targets were in 2010 and if that would live up to your standards for making Julio a success.

If not how many more throws would he have to get?

And who gets less throws? Or will that have an effect on Turners carries?

Well Jenkins caught 50 passes each in 08 and 09

in 2010 he caught 36 passes in 11 games, which translates into 52 catches in a season.

I do not think its unrealistic to expect Julio to catch around 60 maybe even 65 passes.

I fully expect Whites numbers to drop back down to around 80-85 catches and not to be around 115 as they were in 2010

[REV.2000]

So Atlanta gave 4-5 picks for a guy who is going to give them roughly what Jenkins already does for them.

Is that worth it to you?

I don't think it will be to Arthur and I feel the falcons are going to open it up more starting this year and Turners touches will be lower then in previous years.

WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO WIN. JONES'S ROLE WILL BE FAR GREATER

THAN THAT OF JENKINS. WHAT WILL HE BRING TO US? THAT IS YET TO

BE SEEN, NOT PREDICTED. WILL TURNER'S TOUCHES BE LESS? YOU

KNOW THEY WILL. MY HOPE IS THAT THEY FIND A BALANCED ATTACK.

[falconsd56]

So Atlanta gave 4-5 picks for a guy who is going to give them roughly what Jenkins already does for them.

Is that worth it to you?

I don't think it will be to Arthur and I feel the falcons are going to open it up more starting this year and Turners touches will be lower then in previous years.

If he catches 65 passes that is a fairly significant difference.

Not to mention this was not just about this year....he will contribute this year but part of the reason we gave up so much for him is the fact Roddy is 30 this year, Jones is our future # 1

Something Jenkins is not.

Its not about just 2011 its about the future as well.

Something most critics of the trade either to not realize or refuse to acknowledge.

[falconsd56]

How long does Roddy have?

I'm just critical of the trade because offense wasn't the issue last year and the move should've been made to shore up the defense.

At his current production?

probably 2 years.

I think he can be productive still as a secondary guy but I don't think he tops 100 catches again.

[falconsd56]

I think you're selling roddy short I can see 4 years from him.

Oh I think he can still be a good viable contributor for 4-5 years, I just think he is going to slow down some.

I mean 8 strait years of 80+ catches is monumental thing to ask any player.

Even in this pass heavy league that would be rare

[Aquietguy]

Even when healthy save 2009 the saints did not run the ball that much

Vs the vikings with a full compliment of backs, the saints ended up with 25 rushes...3 in the first half. saints had 40 pass plays called passes

Vs the niners again with health set of backs saints only ran the ball 24 times vs 38 passes

Vs falcons with a healthy PT and Ivory heading into game, the saints run the ball 16 times with another 38 passing attempts.... to put that into perspective the falcons BACK UP running back had 14 carries.

Vs Panthers with a healthy Ivory the saints gave their running backs 25 carries.... to 48 passes.

And all of these games were close contests where the saints had the lead for a big portion of the games, so it is not as if thy were down and had to throw.

So in 4 games when the saints were relativity healthy ( the only "running back" that was down was PT...because Bush is not a "running back" right? isn't that the saints excuse for his poor numbers?) the saints averaged roughly 23 rushes per game. that would be good for 30th in the nfl in terms of rushing attempts.

Like I said even when relatively healthy the saints have had a pass first mentality. That is a FACT.

For Ingram to be effective and to be worth the first round pick the saints gave up for him, Payton will need to be more dedicated to the run.... also Brees while did not take many sacks last year took A LOT of hits... more then any saints fan would like, They need to get back to running the ball more to keep teams from loading up and hammering on him.

Our Oline really under performed last season. That goes double early on in the seasom. Like against the 49ers. We got whipped up front. They started progressing as the season went on, but nonthing close to their best. Then we ran into the health probelms. Don't expect the same problem from our o-line this year.

[REV.2000]

How long does Roddy have?

TO BE REALISTIC, QB's, WR's RB's, THEY'RE ALL

ONE HIT AWAY FROM BEING LOST FOR THE SEASON OR

BEYOND.

[falconsd56]

Our Oline really under performed last season. That goes double early on in the seasom. Like against the 49ers. We got whipped up front. They started progressing as the season went on, but nonthing close to their best. Then we ran into the health probelms. Don't expect the same problem from our o-line this year.

No sorry whats the southern expression that dog wont hunt?

If we were talking about effectiveness you might have a point.....albeit a lame one

I am talking strictly about attempts. and it was just not in 10, but it was 2008, and 2007.

Payton has a pass first ask questions later philosophy...... That needs to change.

The " oh we were not healthy" bit does not fly either again I just pointed out to you how when the saints WERE healthy they only averaged 23 carries a game which would put them in bottom 3 in the nfl.

And why should anything be expected different from the oline of the saints? It is going to return most of the same unit.

And if you were worrie about hte saints getting whipped up front early last year,

You start off with the packers, then you get the bears, then you have the texans who are going to have a different look up front, then 2 weeks after that you play carolina who has some talented players in front 7, then you have tampa who has tons of potential up front.....If you are saying they got whipped last year, there is a chance they could be beaten like a government mule this year.