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The collective power of the US is not something that can be bought and sold by Drug Cartels. I see your point, and I absolutely do believe that the cartel's would fight us ending the drug war (this alone should make you think twice about your own positions) - but the money involved with drugs is still a drop in the hat compared to the larger picture that includes other, more powerful industries.

Corrupted politicians? I have no doubt. Corrupted specifically by drug cartels? Meh.

Like I said just a thought....good points! ;)

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1) There are no victimless crimes when it comes to drugs. There is always a victim.

The world must shudder every time a bum on the street gets his high. Clearly this is a man that deserves death.

2) A drug fiend in Baltimore is part of an organization that is 100% associated with a criminal activities that include: money laundering, prostitution, illegal arm deals, et cetera. Though he may not be involved personally, he contributes to the criminal activities of the "drug world" and allows them to flourish through his participation in illegal activities.

The same argument can be made in participating in an economic system that exploits female and child laborers in China, but that doesn't keep your from buying anything at walmart, does it?

Furthermore, where would the difference be if prohibition was ended? Drugs are in the black market because we put them there. If they were controlled and regulated like any other industry, there would be no inherent support for criminal activity - at least not beyond what I just mentioned.

Basically you can't argue that drug users deserve death because of the system they're a part of without noting that the only reason the system existences is of our own doing. It's circular reasoning in its most offensive format.

3) Why does illegal activities have to be turned into a racial driven comment by you? Seems to me that the real racist is the one tossing around slanderous, racially driven comments with no facts to back up his accusations. This means YOU!

4) I support the sentences up to the death penalty for serious criminals including drug offenders. How is that stating that I want to execute blacks like you are implying I said? You sir are the true racist on this message board.

Because the facts are clear - Black americans are unfairly harmed by the 'war on drugs' compared to white americans. They make up only 13% of regular drug users, yet are 13 times more likely to go to jail than other races. This is institutional racism at its worst, and you not only support it - you want the state to execute them?

And that an activity is illegal means nil to me. Interracial marriages were largely illegal only 40-50 years ago, but that's also clearly a racial issue. This, that is, the drug war, is 100% a racial issue. The 'war on drugs' is a war on minorities. I believe this with every ounce of my being.

As for me speaking up about your obvious racism - I abhor racial inequality. I will call foul on it every time I see, especially when it's so clearly obvious as it is in your case. In another thread, you were wishing that bystanders could be executed, or at the very least - murdered by other 'gangbangers'. Now you want primarily black convicts executed for getting a little high? You have more in common with authoritarian communism than you would like to admit.

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Numbers to think about...

1,404,053 people in prison under the jurisdiction of state prison authorities (2010)

208,118 people in prison under the jurisdiction of federal prison authorities (2010)

"Nearly 5.1 million adults were under community supervision at yearend 2008—the equivalent of about 1 in every 45 adults in the United States." When you add in the amount of people in federal prison, state prison, jails, etc. it comes to 1 in every 34.

In 2009, 50.7% of people held in federal prisons were there for drug charges. For comparasion, 7.9% were there for violent crimes.

____

Seems to me if we had stricter penalties up to and including death for drug use, transportation of drugs, and the selling of drugs then the War on Drugs would come to a halt through deterance and the prison system would magically become less crowded and less of a burden on taxpayers.

We need to have stricter penalties for all crimes and actually enforce them. Example, Brian Nichols shot and killed numerous people but yet he hasn't been killed himself. Why not? Or Frank Lucas? Why was he even released once let alone twice?

You're a lunatic, a fascist, a sociopath.

That guy smoked some pot, KILL HIM!

The faster people with your type of thinking die out, the better off the world and society will be.

Edited by Radical 2.0
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This is terrible logic.

So since the US already locks up more of its citizens than any other country in the world, and it's so bad that it's actually hurting our economy, your solution is to lock more people up? Seriously?

Stricter penalties are not going to deter drug use in any meaningful way. People have been getting high since the dawn of time, and they always will. Especially in a society that not only tolerates but encourages the use of alcohol and narcotic pharmaceuticals. Think about it.

All your "solution" would do is:

-punish more people who most likely haven't harmed anyone

-destroy more families

-take workers/taxpayers out of the economy

-drain taxpayers' pockets to pay for even more jails and law enforcement

Whereas legalizing, regulating, and taxing drugs would:

-free people who haven't harmed anyone

-boost tax revenues from all the freed people now working/consuming

-create avenues for addicts to seek help without becoming criminals

-create a new industry and new jobs

-save taxpayers' money by trimming down the bloated prison system

-create a new revenue PIRATED VIDEO IS ILLEGAL for gov't through taxation of drugs

-take away money and power (and therefore most of the appeal) from violent drug gangs

If we started actually using the death penalty for child rapist, murderers like Brian Nichols, known repear drug dealers like Frank Lucas, etc. then our prison system wouldn't be overcrowded. How many people in prison are repeat offenders meaning they never learned the first time or the second or the...

My solution is to deter people from committing crimes through deterrance like other countries: India, Japan, China, et cetera.

1) These drug users, distributors, etc are the ones destroying their own families as well as others.

2) Few of these people actually pay anything in taxes so that wouldn't be missed come payroll time especially when the drug enforcement budget would drop significantly.

3) Very few of these potentially "released" people would actually contribute to society. Very few did before prison and very few will after prison. Taxpayers will subsidize their lives.

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The same argument can be made in participating in an economic system that exploits female and child laborers in China, but that doesn't keep your from buying anything at walmart, does it?

Furthermore, where would the difference be if prohibition was ended? Drugs are in the black market because we put them there. If they were controlled and regulated like any other industry, there would be no inherent support for criminal activity - at least not beyond what I just mentioned.

Basically you can't argue that drug users deserve death because of the system they're a part of without noting that the only reason the system existences is of our own doing. It's circular reasoning in its most offensive format.

Because the facts are clear - Black americans are unfairly harmed by the 'war on drugs' compared to white americans. They make up only 13% of regular drug users, yet are 13 times more likely to go to jail than other races. This is institutional racism at its worst, and you not only support it - you want the state to execute them?

And that an activity is illegal means nil to me. Interracial marriages were largely illegal only 40-50 years ago, but that's also clearly a racial issue. This, that is, the drug war, is 100% a racial issue. The 'war on drugs' is a war on minorities. I believe this with every ounce of my being.

As for me speaking up about your obvious racism - I abhor racial inequality. I will call foul on it every time I see, especially when it's so clearly obvious as it is in your case. In another thread, you were wishing that bystanders could be executed, or at the very least - murdered by other 'gangbangers'. Now you want primarily black convicts executed for getting a little high? You have more in common with authoritarian communism than you would like to admit.

1) You should know by now that I think we would be better off acting like isolationist and only trading goods and/or services with select countries. We only buy goods from China becuase they are cheap and people would ***** and moan if they had to pay more for goods and services. I could care less about paying more for goods and/or services that were manufactured here in the United States versus buying them for a communist country aka China.

2) I don't shop at Walmart.

3) Drugs are in the black market because they are illegal. Why legalize something just to make it not criminal? According to your logic, we should legalize rape therefore keeping people who indulge in those activities from having to go to prison.

4) Why shouldn't someone like Frank Lucas deserve to die for their crimes? Repeat offender, check.

5) Criminals are not "unfairly harmed," they committed crimes and deserve punishment for it regardless of their race. For you to say I am racist because I believe criminals deserve harsher sentences is ridiculous and stated from a racist person, you!

6) States allow the privilege of marriage to be recognized by the state. Completely different than locking up criminals or having harsher sentences for them.

7) The War on Drugs is a war on criminal activity and for anyone to say,"The 'war on drugs' is a war on minorities. I believe this with every ounce of my being." is most definitely themselves a racially driven individual.

8) You say you,"I will call foul on it every time I see..." yet you scream racism when someone wants to prosecute criminals harsher and then fail to recognize a hate crime when it isn't a minority being attacked.

You and people like you are the biggest racially driven people in the world. Look past color and see criminal activity for criminal activity instead of a "War Against Minorities" as you so eloquently posted.

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If we started actually using the death penalty for child rapist, murderers like Brian Nichols, known repear drug dealers like Frank Lucas, etc. then our prison system wouldn't be overcrowded. How many people in prison are repeat offenders meaning they never learned the first time or the second or the...

My solution is to deter people from committing crimes through deterrance like other countries: India, Japan, China, et cetera.

1) These drug users, distributors, etc are the ones destroying their own families as well as others.

2) Few of these people actually pay anything in taxes so that wouldn't be missed come payroll time especially when the drug enforcement budget would drop significantly.

3) Very few of these potentially "released" people would actually contribute to society. Very few did before prison and very few will after prison. Taxpayers will subsidize their lives.

Wow, you've managed to really strike a nerve on this thread.

You honestly believe that if I CHOOSE to smoke a joint in MY house while watching Dazed and Confused that it's a crime and one with a victim at that? All I might be guilty of is causing a shortage of Doritos and you want to put people to death for that? GTFO

So, if drugs were made legal and able to be obtained at the local stores, the pushers on the street would be eliminated simply because they wouldn't be able to match the price or quality. If people CHOOSE to destroy their families and other people CHOOSE to destroy theirs (drug dealers do NOT destroy other families, it takes a buyer making a CHOICE to do that and then making another CHOICE to use irresponsibly).

Amazing, since alcohol and nicotine are far more addictive and harmful than just about any other drug you can find yet you take this stance?

Basically, your argument just doesn't hold water and flies in the face of personal responsibility and freedom...

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We don't need to make more room in jail for murderers, we need to put them in front of a firing squad. Someone rapes a child, they get a bullet through their head. We need much more severe punishments in this country to deter crime.

What about those that are actually innocent yet still convicted?

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Robby, you have yet to make a coherent point. All you have are laughable stereotypes and overheated hyperbole that even a child would recognize as BS. You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Make sure to turn in your "conservative" card on the way out the door. Because your way of thinking is what enables the erosion of Americans' constitutional rights and forces the "land of the free" to lock up more of its citizens than any other nation. Your way of thinking is why taxpayers are burdened with the huge and neverending cost of the War on Drugs and the assorted useless, bloated government agencies and programs it requires. Your way of thinking is why violent drug cartels and gangs exist in the first place, and why they have enough money to buy all the guns they want. Your way of thinking makes it easier for children to be exposed to hard drugs.

At first I thought it was a little over-the-top, but I'm inclined to agree with the poster who called you a sociopath.

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The collective power of the US is not something that can be bought and sold by Drug Cartels. I see your point, and I absolutely do believe that the cartel's would fight us ending the drug war (this alone should make you think twice about your own positions) - but the money involved with drugs is still a drop in the hat compared to the larger picture that includes other, more powerful industries.

Corrupted politicians? I have no doubt. Corrupted specifically by drug cartels? Meh.

Since you like to research things, do some searching on this: Gary Webb Dark Alliance

Series of articles that's really eye-opening. Also, check out Mike Ruppert too. This is an hour and 45 minutes long but it's well worth it IMO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cpNCdjC2P0

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drugs have never hurt anyone..

try as you may; this point cannot be effectively argued.

Drug abuse has destroyed lives and wrecked families.

So has alcohol.

But just like the prohibition of alcohol, all the war on drugs as done is fill our prisons with non-violent offenders, increase gun crime, waste taxpayer dollars, and make criminals outrageously wealthy. While drugs are still widely available.

Edited by Gritzblitz 2.0
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Wow, you've managed to really strike a nerve on this thread.

You honestly believe that if I CHOOSE to smoke a joint in MY house while watching Dazed and Confused that it's a crime and one with a victim at that? All I might be guilty of is causing a shortage of Doritos and you want to put people to death for that? GTFO

So, if drugs were made legal and able to be obtained at the local stores, the pushers on the street would be eliminated simply because they wouldn't be able to match the price or quality. If people CHOOSE to destroy their families and other people CHOOSE to destroy theirs (drug dealers do NOT destroy other families, it takes a buyer making a CHOICE to do that and then making another CHOICE to use irresponsibly).

Amazing, since alcohol and nicotine are far more addictive and harmful than just about any other drug you can find yet you take this stance?

Basically, your argument just doesn't hold water and flies in the face of personal responsibility and freedom...

1) When did I ever say that I wanted the death penalty for a pot smoker? Never. What was said was that drug charges should go up to and include the death penalty so that someone like Frank Lucas could be deterred from distributing massive amounts of drugs because he could be executed for it, not be released from prison twice.

2) If you want to start talking about "drugs" and their "addiction" then you need to start with caffeine not alcohol or nicotine because that is far more addicting according to numerous studies.

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What about those that are actually innocent yet still convicted?

LOL give me a break with that crap. Very few people are convicted of a crime they didn't commit. You get caught with drugs, you go to prison, and "work" your way out by repaying society through chain gangs, making license plates, etc. The US has turned into pansies when it comes to enforcing the law and actually prosecuting people to the maximum extent possible.

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Robby, you have yet to make a coherent point. All you have are laughable stereotypes and overheated hyperbole that even a child would recognize as BS. You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Make sure to turn in your "conservative" card on the way out the door. Because your way of thinking is what enables the erosion of Americans' constitutional rights and forces the "land of the free" to lock up more of its citizens than any other nation. Your way of thinking is why taxpayers are burdened with the huge and neverending cost of the War on Drugs and the assorted useless, bloated government agencies and programs it requires. Your way of thinking is why violent drug cartels and gangs exist in the first place, and why they have enough money to buy all the guns they want. Your way of thinking makes it easier for children to be exposed to hard drugs.

At first I thought it was a little over-the-top, but I'm inclined to agree with the poster who called you a sociopath.

We lock up more people because are punishments aren't strict enough to actually deter certain types of criminal activity. I am sure if he had punishments like "lose a hand if you are caught stealing" then our theft rate would drop.

A famous person, I'll let you figure out who it was, once had a gold cup and put it in the middle of the town square, next to a water well. Anyone could drink from it, but could not remove it from the square under penalty of death. Did anyone every move it, no...

How does it erode the Constitution when you enforce federal and state laws???

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Drug abuse has destroyed lives and wrecked families.

So has alcohol.

But just like the prohibition of alcohol, all the war on drugs as done is fill our prisons with non-violent offenders, increase gun crime, waste taxpayer dollars, and make criminals outrageously wealthy. While drugs are still widely available.

exactly. no drug has hurt anyone ever... so it makes me wonder why we spend more money on the "drug" part rather than the "abuse" part.

and for robby.... i believe an asian country tried the death penalty for during its meth epidemic... result was a lot of people were killed.... and drug use remained about the same... just driven more underground (i.e more expensive resulting in higher crime)

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You'll find that countries with less stringent punishments also have less crime. There's no evidence to suggest deterrence is anything but a judicial fantasy.

LOL so countries like China, Japan, and India have less stringent punishments and less crime??? They have much more severe punishments and much less crime.

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