The Pass Rush

[Knight of God]

The most popular idea is to simply sign a FA. Many say Edwards, but he is a whole lot like both Biermann and Davis in that if given the same opportunity in the same situation either man would have had similar stats. Not taking anything away from Edwards and his athleticism, but our thick rotation will probably cut his 8 sacks to 4-4.5 which would still be a boost if Davis (1) and Biermann (3) still got the numbers from last year and upgrade Anderson (2), but by last years stats it would make more sense to upgrade Davis...WOW!!!

Now, the idea is to penetrate from the middle with quick, speedy, and smallish DT's. Its a great idea and especially in rotation, but there is one problem with that...no block eaters. No space eaters and this is what I see...

Abraham (doubled), Babineaux (singled/chipped/or doubled with RB), then Peters/Jerry (singled), LE (singled). Then the TE or FB/HB can get free. Still minimal sacks unless Abraham fights it off.

OL schemes are based on using the whole OL to block just four guys with a little help from either the HB, FB, or TE in a pro-set. This use to be pretty effective for a defense to cover, blitz, or pursue. Now, all it takes is for either back or TE (most are athletic now) to get free and give a team 3-7yds. We were pretty good at keeping it to 3yds, stopping the run between 3-4 (unless we missed tackles and gave up a long run).

We all were scratching our heads. "We are a good team!" or "How did that happen?" or "It was _______'s fault." It was no one's fault. We are just missing something on the line and it isn't quite what we think.

The idea is to have two DT's somewhere around 300lbs who normally would play the 3 technique both lining up inside with one as the 3 and the other as a 2 technique. Both are fairly suited and should work right? Not when today's OL's wall off inside with just two blockers and the third on the inside left (left guard, beginning to become almost as important as the Center and LT) is charged with getting a chip on the inside and helping outside.

What's missing? The truth is nothing. Nothing is really missing because the concept is smart, but there does need to be more of a presence inside. Jerry, Peters, and Babineaux are a scary group. Jerry maybe not so much, but I have high hopes for him. In rotation and in certain sets I can see this group bringing in 12-15 sacks all together, but we really need a space eater.

Many of you have already expressed your disdain for this concept. We do have the UFA though and Gray is available at 5'11" 330lbs. He can be placed on the PS or just take Lewis' spot. Either way, I hope that more than inside pass rush, we do something about pulling the blocks inward instead of outward.

[falconidae]

Key to the pass rush, no matter who they bring in as a DE, is for Peters and/or Jerry to play well enough to demand double teams. If that happens, everything else works better. So tired of hearing the phrase " He steps up in the pocket" about opposing QBs.

Effective pressure up the middle makes those pressures that Biermann got last year into sacks because the QB has nowhere to go. Also makes blitzes more effective, because someone has to be one on one.

I think that if Smith & BVG wanted a 330 LB Dtackle, they'd have one by now. Seems like a decision to trade bulk for quickness, trade effectiveness against the run for a better pass rush up the middle. That hasn't happened yet, but seems to be the idea.

If Jerry has that incredible first step after recovering from his knee injury, this Dline will be fine. IF he doesn't, may be another long night in the playoffs.

[coachx]

A healthy Weatherspoon and Lofton would be nice too. The Falcons 2 best LBs were banged up all year. Lofton could barely move at the end of the season.

Hopefully Jerry is stronger and Peters improves is his 2nd year. Those 2 will really be pushing one another. With a little more pressure up the middle the QB would not be able to step up in the pocket and avoid all those sacks Biermann was 1/2 a step away from.

[coachx]

Key to the pass rush, no matter who they bring in as a DE, is for Peters and/or Jerry to play well enough to demand double teams. If that happens, everything else works better. So tired of hearing the phrase " He steps up in the pocket" about opposing QBs.

Effective pressure up the middle makes those pressures that Biermann got last year into sacks because the QB has nowhere to go. Also makes blitzes more effective, because someone has to be one on one.

Exactly !

You beat me to it.

[etherdome]

I think that we will address the pass rush in free agency. However, I don't think that a DE will be the answer. I'd like to see some more exotic and unpredictable blitzes used. To do that, we will need to add an athletic LB to play the SLB position. Peterson did a decent job, but I think that age has slowed him too much. If we can add a SLB capable of rushing the QB, we should have a much improved defense.

Are there any free agent LB's out there that can meet our needs?

[coachx]

I think that we will address the pass rush in free agency. However, I don't think that a DE will be the answer. I'd like to see some more exotic and unpredictable blitzes used. To do that, we will need to add an athletic LB to play the SLB position. Peterson did a decent job, but I think that age has slowed him too much. If we can add a SLB capable of rushing the QB, we should have a much improved defense.

Are there any free agent LB's out there that can meet our needs?

Chad Greewnway is a tough, hard nosed veteran but is more of a run stopper then pass rusher at OLB.

James Anderson from Carolina is a young option. He was very productive last year for the injured Thomas Davis.

Thomas Davis is coming off a 2nd ACL tear and may not have many options. He had some serious burst before his latest injury.

Both Anderson and Davis are probably better at the weak side like Weatherspoon but still like both of them.

Edit - cross Greenway off the list. He got tagged where any team would have to give up 2 1st round picks if they sign him IF we are stick using 2010 rules.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2011-02-21/vikings-tag-olb-chad-greenway

Edited May 5, 2011 by coachx

[capologist]

I agree that the DT's have to do a better job of collapsing the pocket up the middle. I can't count how many times I saw the rush off the edges only to see the QB step up and either scramble or make a throw. That's not on the DE's IMO but instead, the DT's...

[Farmer2]

Personally I'm not as worried about the pass rush as many on here are. I look at our last two losses last year. We got a ton of pressure on Brees and Rodgers by bringing a 5th and sometimes 6th rusher either from the OLB spot or the NB spot. We got to the QB, and rather quickly at that, the problem is we didn't finish the play and bring down the QB. We let Brees and Rodgers just bounce off our rushers. We just need to finish the play.

[FalconState]

Personally I'm not as worried about the pass rush as many on here are. I look at our last two losses last year. We got a ton of pressure on Brees and Rodgers by bringing a 5th and sometimes 6th rusher either from the OLB spot or the NB spot. We got to the QB, and rather quickly at that, the problem is we didn't finish the play and bring down the QB. We let Brees and Rodgers just bounce off our rushers. We just need to finish the play.

I agree and if we don't sign a free agent i would not mind giving Kroy another year to see what he can do

[Knight of God]

Key to the pass rush, no matter who they bring in as a DE, is for Peters and/or Jerry to play well enough to demand double teams. If that happens, everything else works better. So tired of hearing the phrase " He steps up in the pocket" about opposing QBs.

Effective pressure up the middle makes those pressures that Biermann got last year into sacks because the QB has nowhere to go. Also makes blitzes more effective, because someone has to be one on one.

I think that if Smith & BVG wanted a 330 LB Dtackle, they'd have one by now. Seems like a decision to trade bulk for quickness, trade effectiveness against the run for a better pass rush up the middle. That hasn't happened yet, but seems to be the idea.

If Jerry has that incredible first step after recovering from his knee injury, this Dline will be fine. IF he doesn't, may be another long night in the playoffs.

That's actually what I'm getting at. But really sometimes a smaller guy who is quick sometimes and on paper doesn't always translate. Sometimes those big strong guys will gave you the same and more using power as many would believe a quick guy would.

I hear you though and this is the one thing I disagree with our FO on.

[takeitdown]

To the OP, while I don't agree we need a huge run stopping DT, I will agree we need a DT who can push the pocket back with a bullrush.

That likely means a fairly agile 315 lb guy. I think that's what they want Peters to be (he wasn't in great shape last year and could add some weight) but who knows what it will be like with this weird offseason...I don't know if he got trained to be bigger/stronger.

If we have a strong DT who can push his man straight back, while one of the UTs tries to get around his on either side, it should make it harder for the QB by a long shot. If all three of our guys step up this year, I think we'll be fine even without that. I am envious of Detroit's middle, though.

[Knight of God]

To the OP, while I don't agree we need a huge run stopping DT, I will agree we need a DT who can push the pocket back with a bullrush.

That likely means a fairly agile 315 lb guy. I think that's what they want Peters to be (he wasn't in great shape last year and could add some weight) but who knows what it will be like with this weird offseason...I don't know if he got trained to be bigger/stronger.

If we have a strong DT who can push his man straight back, while one of the UTs tries to get around his on either side, it should make it harder for the QB by a long shot. If all three of our guys step up this year, I think we'll be fine even without that. I am envious of Detroit's middle, though.

I totally agree with this and this is what I'm talking about. He doesn't have to be humongous just strong and quick. Peters has the frame and the build, but that extra weight helps in many aspects of the game.

Fairley is going to be playing 2 technique from what I hear along with Suh and he weighs 291lbs. I watch the Lions, so we'll just have to see.

[metatron360]

To the OP, while I don't agree we need a huge run stopping DT, I will agree we need a DT who can push the pocket back with a bullrush.

That likely means a fairly agile 315 lb guy. I think that's what they want Peters to be (he wasn't in great shape last year and could add some weight) but who knows what it will be like with this weird offseason...I don't know if he got trained to be bigger/stronger.

If we have a strong DT who can push his man straight back, while one of the UTs tries to get around his on either side, it should make it harder for the QB by a long shot. If all three of our guys step up this year, I think we'll be fine even without that. I am envious of Detroit's middle, though.

i must disagree when we had grady jackson not really athletic more of a run stuffer abe grabbed 17 sacks and 4 man pressure was consistent allowing babs, who people on this board rarely mention had 6 saks with gravy, the previos year led the leage in tackles for loss. grady caused o-lines to slide in allowing our ends to play outside. it really seemed that the big DT allowed babs to really blow up the pocket.

Edited May 5, 2011 by metatron360

[raysnill1]

every now & then I go back & look at the games we played against the Bengals, Ravens, the 1st Packers game, the 2nd time against the Saints. our defense was all over the place and hitting hard for the first half! then in the second half we played soft and teams came back and got in rhythm. if we play with the intensity we've shown in the first half of those games all year round, we won't have any problems with our defense. that's just my opinion though

[Knight of God]

i must disagree when we had grady jackson not really athletic more of a run stuffer abe grabbed 17 sacks and 4 man pressure was consistent allowing babs, who people on this board rarely mention had 6 saks with gravy, the previos year led the leage in tackles for loss. grady caused o-lines to slide in allowing our ends to play outside. it really seemed that the big DT allowed babs to really blow up the pocket.

Sometimes just by breaking down plays things start to make more and more sense.

[Knight of God]

every now & then I go back & look at the games we played against the Bengals, Ravens, the 1st Packers game, the 2nd time against the Saints. our defense was all over the place and hitting hard for the first half! then in the second half we played soft and teams came back and got in rhythm. if we play with the intensity we've shown in the first half of those games all year round, we won't have any problems with our defense. that's just my opinion though

They are getting worn down. Staying on the field too long and having to consistantly try and fight guys who outweight everyone but no less than 20lbs and moving forward. Even in a rotation that turns arms and legs into wet noodles.

[Knight of God]

Something that really underrated is the fact we didnt wrap up QBs for some reason this year...

I think someone else pointed it out..we would get to the QBs and our DTs decided they didnt want to break down and wrap up, they would either fly right past the QB and take themselves out of the play, or just get sidestepped because again, they didnt break down.

It was almost as if they were surprised to get to the QB when they got there last season...its like they would do ALL of the hard work of actually getting to the QB...instead of just doing the easy part of making the sack, they would wiff.

I think we can get better with the team we had last year...but idk, I still feel like we are missing a piece on D..(and no Im not hinting towards Edwards..Im not discounting him either/but for his price, I dont think hes the answer)

I mentioned that we couldn't tackle on another thread, but you saw the games and others have said it as well.

[kierstendawg]

I think that we will address the pass rush in free agency. However, I don't think that a DE will be the answer. I'd like to see some more exotic and unpredictable blitzes used. To do that, we will need to add an athletic LB to play the SLB position. Peterson did a decent job, but I think that age has slowed him too much. If we can add a SLB capable of rushing the QB, we should have a much improved defense.

Are there any free agent LB's out there that can meet our needs?

Exactly what I said, but to blitz more, you have to have more corners you trust one on one. Oak Raid FA corner would allow us to bring the house a lot more. I personally think we are going to unload a few players like Norwood, If JPWilson has developed and the coaches are comfortable with him, we might get something for Redman, Weems and Douglas are huge possibilities, among a few other moves that will allow us to make big FA signs, I hope we get the best corner we can get and the best DE we can get because I personally think with the addition of Dent, our LB corp is going to be very good if healthy.

We have enough exp. players that teams will take a chance on and we can either free up some money or build our 2012 draft up. Once this lockout bs gets out of the way I think TD and company are going to be very agressive with the pressure they have on them from making the move for Julio(In which I Love)

Edited May 5, 2011 by kierstendawg

[Knight of God]

Exactly what I said, but to blitz more, you have to have more corners you trust one on one. Oak Raid FA corner would allow us to bring the house a lot more. I personally think we are going to unload a few players like Norwood, If JPWilson has developed and the coaches are comfortable with him, we might get something for Redman, Weems and Douglas are huge possibilities, among a few other moves that will allow us to make to big FA signs, the best corner we can get and the best DE we can get. We have enough players that teams will take a chance on and either free up some money or build our 2012 draft up. Once this lockout bs gets out of the way I think TD and company are going to be very agressive with the pressure they have on them from making the move for Julio(In which I Love)

+1 about the corners. I love what the Jets attempted in bringing Kyle Wilson.

[raysnill1]

They are getting worn down. Staying on the field too long and having to consistantly try and fight guys who outweight everyone but no less than 20lbs and moving forward. Even in a rotation that turns arms and legs into wet noodles.

the game plan is allowing them to get worn down. the first half they're hitting hard making plays and playing aggressive. second half we're playing zone and letting teams pick up first downs and drive the field, only to clamp down in the red zone and hold most teams from scoring TDs. why not continue to play aggressive and keep teams from getting into a rhythm? it's kinda hard to get worn down when you're not on the field. but on the flip side of that coin, our offense never put together a solid 3rd quarter all season either, trying to play conservative. with a more explosive offense maybe it helps out the defense a little more than we know.

[Knight of God]

the game plan is allowing them to get worn down. the first half they're hitting hard making plays and playing aggressive. second half we're playing zone and letting teams pick up first downs and drive the field, only to clamp down in the red zone and hold most teams from scoring TDs. why not continue to play aggressive and keep teams from getting into a rhythm? it's kinda hard to get worn down when you're not on the field. but on the flip side of that coin, our offense never put together a solid 3rd quarter all season either, trying to play conservative. with a more explosive offense maybe it helps out the defense a little more than we know.

I agree, but if this double inside DE (LOL!!! J/K) approach still doesn't work we need to cut Trey Lewis and get real.

[Nono]

Key to the pass rush, no matter who they bring in as a DE, is for Peters and/or Jerry to play well enough to demand double teams. If that happens, everything else works better. So tired of hearing the phrase " He steps up in the pocket" about opposing QBs.

Effective pressure up the middle makes those pressures that Biermann got last year into sacks because the QB has nowhere to go. Also makes blitzes more effective, because someone has to be one on one.

I think that if Smith & BVG wanted a 330 LB Dtackle, they'd have one by now. Seems like a decision to trade bulk for quickness, trade effectiveness against the run for a better pass rush up the middle. That hasn't happened yet, but seems to be the idea.

If Jerry has that incredible first step after recovering from his knee injury, this Dline will be fine. IF he doesn't, may be another long night in the playoffs.

All true but someone has to bring consistent pressure from both sides to make that QB step forward against his will and that hasn't happened for a while--not knocking Abe's talents or Kroy---but it has to be on every down and go through the QB's mind that he has 3 seconds or be hit, not 5 or 6 seconds

Edited May 5, 2011 by Nono

[Knight of God]

All true but someone has to bring consistent pressure from both sides to make that QB step forward against his will and that hasn't happened for a while--not knocking Abe's talents or Kroy---but it has to be on every down and go through the QB's mind that he has 3 seconds or be hit, not 5 or 6 seconds

They have forced the QB inside consistantly, but there has been no consistant move from the middle which is pretty rare in the NFL unless the DT is playing 3 technique which is almost like having a DE come through on a constant stunt and keeping your DE's on the edge. TBH it just didn't work as planned.

[raysnill1]

I agree, but if this double inside DE (LOL!!! J/K) approach still doesn't work we need to cut Trey Lewis and get real.

actually we can get to the QB. but for some reason we kept rushing 3 or 4 and playing zone, which gave average & below average QBs time to find receivers who found soft spots in the zone. plus we have pretty good cover corners, we had a LB that was a pretty good pass rusher, we had a nickle who was also pretty good at rushing the QB. we have a safety that is hard hitting, quick and also pretty good at getting to the QB. I liked BVG, but I've yet to see the defense he ran at UGA. I would sure like to see it

[215FalconsFanatic]

I didnt know Cliff Matthews was regarded as one of the top 40 prospects for 2011 draft

20) Cliff Matthews/DE-OLB/South Carolina: Matthews is similar to many of the defensive players selected in this year's draft: A terrific pass rushing defensive end many project to outside linebacker.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/football/nfl/draft-2010/04/26/2011.prospects/1.html#ixzz1LVjLG18k