Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

MarloStanfield

Mike Vick

111 posts in this topic

Here's some quotes from the Eagles messageboards, there's lots of of back and forth, but there's a lot of posters on the eagles boards that don't like Vick or are worried about the same things I mentioned. There are from one thread, there are several like it on the board.

Why is everyone so sure that second half Vick was an anamoly

One of the big changes Vick needs to accomplish is reading defenses better to pick up the blitz

Failure to do this will not only give you a replay of the last four games of 2010,in which Vick was sacked,smashed and crushed by opposing teams blitzing him off the field,not to mention the bone crushing hits he took during that period of time.

Vick needs to be able to read blitz defenses better and be able to audible at the LOS like Peyton Manning and Brady does to beat blitzes

Look how many rushing attempts vick had and he never slid once, that's a lot of hit's that vick took that falls on his shoulders.

i personally dont think it was a coincidince that his play started slipping when games mattered most...look at his run in atlanta . how does a 7-2 team in a weak division fail to make the playoffs in 06? and as ive asked many to do please point to one playoff game where vick has played well? you cant find one because even in wins his numbers were god awful. i hope for the sake of the eagles that the vick we saw against washington,jaxonville, and detroit is the real vick....as of now there is too much history of slipping play and tendencies to rely on athleticism alone for me to that quickly jump on a bandwagon.

If you didnt see Vicks decline as the season went on then you should just stop posting now.

QB rating? How about TDs vs fumbles/ints and points scored on offense? Vick was awful down the stretch and needs to work very hard this offseason (if there is one)

Vick was terrible with blitz recognition and very reckless with the football down the stretch last season. Teams figured him out and Vick admitted he failed to adjust. The Oline wasnt great but it was good enough down the stretch and Vick made it look much much worse.

He can get better but he has a lot of work to do. Obviously Watkins and Mudd should help but that corner blitz is on Vick not the Oline. He needs to learn to step up in the pocket and read whats happening rather then try and break it outside and wait for someone to get open.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't say I agreed with the argument. I think that Ryan will have a better career than those two. I don't think Ryan has peaked at all, he'll get better the next 3-5 years. One of things that hurts Vick is he missed 48 starts in his prime due to prison and sitting behind McNabb- there is nothing so good for a QB as playing a bunch of games. Vick only has 33 more starts than Ryan in 5 more years of playing. He still get confused by blitzes because he just hasn't experienced it enough in live action.

There's hardly unanimous support for Vick on the eagles site, many of his detractors are making the exact arguments I have.

Of course Ryan hasn't peaked just like the others that have been in the league the past 2-3 years. What I meant was as of right now, should have stated that in the last post.

Now as for Vick his playing style will get him banged up but he has produced. I don't know alot of players that contribute at least 90%(pending injury) of the passing yards and at least 30% of the rushing offense. The only thing I see is that he's not effective is because he gets hurt.

In any case glad you dropped the link. From the looks of it the detractors are getting hammered just as hard as the ones here that go in on Ryan so I wouldn't say it's a 50/50 split amongst their fans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course Ryan hasn't peaked just like the others that have been in the league the past 2-3 years. What I meant was as of right now, should have stated that in the last post.

Now as for Vick his playing style will get him banged up but he has produced. I don't know alot of players that contribute at least 90%(pending injury) of the passing yards and at least 30% of the rushing offense. The only thing I see is that he's not effective is because he gets hurt.

In any case glad you dropped the link. From the looks of it the detractors are getting hammered just as hard as the ones here that go in on Ryan so I wouldn't say it's a 50/50 split amongst their fans.

Not being effective because he's hurt is huge- it's why he's a sub 500 QB in Dec/Jan. And he's always hurt with his style of play.

Didn't say it was 50 /50, but there's a solid minority that don't like Vick You said hadn't seen any criticism of Vick, I was showing you that it's out there.

Here's another thread, I 'd say 20-30% of the posts are for trading Vick.

I want Vick to be traded

First post:

I would rather we keep Kolb as our starter and our future, and trade VICK. Kolb is a good QB and i think will be an elite QB given time and experience. Vick is what 31 now? its only a matter of time before he gets seriously injured or starts declining in his play. Kolb should know this offense inside and out, has a ton of weapons, and is the better fit for our team.

flame away Vick lovers.

And like with McNabb you'll still be saying that when Vick is gone.All the athleticism in the world can't replace smarts. Vick is sorely lacking in that area.

How many play off wins did the "All-Pro game changer" win last year? Even McNabb won some play off games.

The Eagles sold me on Kolb, I was prepared and excited to have a young core of players. I get the Vick is more Dynamic but the just don't think he can win us a super bowl. I would rather have Kolb and our young offense grow together.

If Kolb is so bad why is every team in the league hot after him espcially before the draft. And Larry Fitzgerald wants him as his QB. Kolb is and will be a very good QB. And will win a lot of games and will be in the playoffs. Vick on the other hand as already seen what he is and what he can. The last 6 games of the year he was nothing special. I think Vick with the Eagles will be nothing better then last year. Only protypical QB's in this league win games and superbowls. Vick is not one of them.

Or were you talking about the Minnesota game? How he was horrible, Or the last 6 games of the year when he was a turnover machine.

Totally agree. Vick couldn't even find the 3rd receiver half the time and defenses figured him out more and more. When (NOT if) he goes down this year, it'll probably be season ending and his trade value goes way down.

Priceless is right he isnt worth a pot of crap..All you Vick lovers look back to the end of last season .teams stopped him he rolled outta the pocket EVEN WHEN THERE WAS NOT PRESURE..He looked to run FIRST..he is nothing more the a show boat that WILL NEVER take ANY TEAM to the SB.

Atlanta Vick is all he will ever be ..But this is my opinion (Im always right by the way :groovy: )

You can all love him but in the end he is what he is and thats very avg qb Vick =Vince Young he will be just a fart in the wind come mid season..You will all be hanging your heads saying Why did we keep this loser

I also think Vick is going to tank it up big time this season. He has never had back to back winning seasons an will get banged up.

The Eagles will go no where with Vick look for more missed games this season due to injury.

Listen **** you dude.. Im an idiot because i want that scumbag to be traded? Vick is a ghetto scumbag piece of ish... and people who think he changed just like that are morons. He's sorry? he saying that ish cause he was caught and lost all of his money. what do you think he's gonna do?

Lets see.. He's 31, completely threw out the gameplan halfway through the season and went back to his old ways, is not the future of our eagles team, and is on the last year of his contract. What are the eagles gonna extend him to a mega deal? No.. plus the **'er is an unethical, immoral scumbag who should not represent the philadelphia eagles. As a Eagles fan since i was born 28 years ago, he is a disgrace to the team, and all who support him are too.

i hate Vick as a person he comes off as a fraud. i personally think kolb will be no better then alex smith. i would honestly feel better about the direction of our team if we traded both got great value and started Kafka. it wouldnt put butts in seats to have a true rebuilding year, but Vick has 0 longevity. if we offer him more then a 2-3 year deal i will be heated. i expect more of the Atlanta Vick to return this season. he has not had andy to rely on or access to team aides. i felt his public image was more eagles generated then genuine. i think he has the capacity to become better but im a dog lover i will never forgive him. also i tend to wonder how long this resurgence will last. donovan went down hill after 33, i dont see why Vick will not. both Kolb and Vick both want huge paydays. i cannot think of 1 QB who actively played on a franchise tag who had a monster year. the last guy that comes to mind is Cassel but that was merely for trade purposes. i say start kafka and sign a vet backup. trade both Vick and kolb. both are out for themselves more then the team.

..as of now come playoff time im simply saying i trust mcnabb more than vick...that could change if vick puts together back to back solid years and wins a couple games where his play is good when it matters...to this date that hasnt happened yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not being effective because he's hurt is huge- it's why he's a sub 500 QB in Dec/Jan. And he's always hurt with his style of play.

Didn't say it was 50 /50, but there's a solid minority that don't like Vick You said hadn't seen any criticism of Vick, I was showing you that it's out there.

Here's another thread, I 'd say 20-30% of the posts are for trading Vick.

I want Vick to be traded

First post:

I would rather we keep Kolb as our starter and our future, and trade VICK. Kolb is a good QB and i think will be an elite QB given time and experience. Vick is what 31 now? its only a matter of time before he gets seriously injured or starts declining in his play. Kolb should know this offense inside and out, has a ton of weapons, and is the better fit for our team.

flame away Vick lovers.

And like with McNabb you'll still be saying that when Vick is gone.All the athleticism in the world can't replace smarts. Vick is sorely lacking in that area.

How many play off wins did the "All-Pro game changer" win last year? Even McNabb won some play off games.

The Eagles sold me on Kolb, I was prepared and excited to have a young core of players. I get the Vick is more Dynamic but the just don't think he can win us a super bowl. I would rather have Kolb and our young offense grow together.

If Kolb is so bad why is every team in the league hot after him espcially before the draft. And Larry Fitzgerald wants him as his QB. Kolb is and will be a very good QB. And will win a lot of games and will be in the playoffs. Vick on the other hand as already seen what he is and what he can. The last 6 games of the year he was nothing special. I think Vick with the Eagles will be nothing better then last year. Only protypical QB's in this league win games and superbowls. Vick is not one of them.

Or were you talking about the Minnesota game? How he was horrible, Or the last 6 games of the year when he was a turnover machine.

Totally agree. Vick couldn't even find the 3rd receiver half the time and defenses figured him out more and more. When (NOT if) he goes down this year, it'll probably be season ending and his trade value goes way down.

Priceless is right he isnt worth a pot of crap..All you Vick lovers look back to the end of last season .teams stopped him he rolled outta the pocket EVEN WHEN THERE WAS NOT PRESURE..He looked to run FIRST..he is nothing more the a show boat that WILL NEVER take ANY TEAM to the SB.

Atlanta Vick is all he will ever be ..But this is my opinion (Im always right by the way :groovy: )

You can all love him but in the end he is what he is and thats very avg qb Vick =Vince Young he will be just a fart in the wind come mid season..You will all be hanging your heads saying Why did we keep this loser

I also think Vick is going to tank it up big time this season. He has never had back to back winning seasons an will get banged up.

The Eagles will go no where with Vick look for more missed games this season due to injury.

Listen **** you dude.. Im an idiot because i want that scumbag to be traded? Vick is a ghetto scumbag piece of ish... and people who think he changed just like that are morons. He's sorry? he saying that ish cause he was caught and lost all of his money. what do you think he's gonna do?

Lets see.. He's 31, completely threw out the gameplan halfway through the season and went back to his old ways, is not the future of our eagles team, and is on the last year of his contract. What are the eagles gonna extend him to a mega deal? No.. plus the **'er is an unethical, immoral scumbag who should not represent the philadelphia eagles. As a Eagles fan since i was born 28 years ago, he is a disgrace to the team, and all who support him are too.

i hate Vick as a person he comes off as a fraud. i personally think kolb will be no better then alex smith. i would honestly feel better about the direction of our team if we traded both got great value and started Kafka. it wouldnt put butts in seats to have a true rebuilding year, but Vick has 0 longevity. if we offer him more then a 2-3 year deal i will be heated. i expect more of the Atlanta Vick to return this season. he has not had andy to rely on or access to team aides. i felt his public image was more eagles generated then genuine. i think he has the capacity to become better but im a dog lover i will never forgive him. also i tend to wonder how long this resurgence will last. donovan went down hill after 33, i dont see why Vick will not. both Kolb and Vick both want huge paydays. i cannot think of 1 QB who actively played on a franchise tag who had a monster year. the last guy that comes to mind is Cassel but that was merely for trade purposes. i say start kafka and sign a vet backup. trade both Vick and kolb. both are out for themselves more then the team.

..as of now come playoff time im simply saying i trust mcnabb more than vick...that could change if vick puts together back to back solid years and wins a couple games where his play is good when it matters...to this date that hasnt happened yet.

Looks like most of their opinions of the guy is centered on something else other than football. If your trying the prove that alot of people still hate him then yes they do but it's more personal than anything.

For instance:

plus the **'er is an unethical, immoral scumbag who should not represent the philadelphia eagles.

So since you quoted this I take it you support this guys opinion as well right? Is this crowd the ones you align yourself with in your views of Vick?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like most of their opinions of the guy is centered on something else other than football. If your trying the prove that alot of people still hate him then yes they do but it's more personal than anything.

For instance:

So since you quoted this I take it you support this guys opinion as well right? Is this crowd the ones you align yourself with in your views of Vick?

Quoting you doesn't mean I agree with you., quoting this guy doesn't make me a vick hater. I included this because I didn't want to be accused of cherry picking. You also have to realize they have much different moderation on that board and that's actually pretty typical rhetoric in a lot of threads. There's a group of posters on that board, including this guy, who believe in being the most bad asp negative jerk is the best way to post.

And how do you get most of their opinions are based on something other than football? There are 13 quotes, each quadruple space is a quote. 11 out of the 13 quotes are strictly about football, how you know someone who says " I also think Vick is going to tank it up big time this season. He has never had back to back winning seasons an will get banged up." has a personal grudge against Vick is beyond me- he may just be looking at Vick's track record. Because that is his track record.

And I've made my point- you claimed you hadn't seen any negative stuff about Vick except by Vick Haters. There are some football fans on the eagles board, that, just based on football, don't like Vick's game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And I've made my point- you claimed you hadn't seen any negative stuff about Vick except by Vick Haters. There are some football fans on the eagles board, that, just based on football, don't like Vick's game.

:lol: you're a true Vick fan, you know that right? :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And I've made my point- you claimed you hadn't seen any negative stuff about Vick except by Vick Haters. There are some football fans on the eagles board, that, just based on football, don't like Vick's game.

"Outside of here I have heard nothing but praise for the man throughout the league and on other boards, with the exception of select few for obvious reasons."

Yep I did say that and I am wrong but not by much. I also said that some of his critics are against him for other reasons which you proved true with some of the quotes you posted. It's kind of hard to tell if there opinions are based on pure football or personal grudge since some can hide it more than others.

Anyways, since that is settled can you tell me how Ryan is better than Flacco and Sanchez when both have been more successful?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Outside of here I have heard nothing but praise for the man throughout the league and on other boards, with the exception of select few for obvious reasons."

Yep I did say that and I am wrong but not by much. I also said that some of his critics are against him for other reasons which you proved true with some of the quotes you posted. It's kind of hard to tell if there opinions are based on pure football or personal grudge since some can hide it more than others.

Anyways, since that is settled can you tell me how Ryan is better than Flacco and Sanchez when both have been more successful?

You're wrong by a wider margin than you care to admit- lots of folks aren't impressed by Vick's team's results.

I assume you mean playoff success, and it's simple- Flacco and Sanchez both have been backed up by much better Ds.

Here's Flacco's numbers from a couple of his playoff wins:

9 of 23 / 135 yards/ 0 / 0 59 QB rating / D allowed 9 points

4 of 10 34 yards 1 INT 10 QB rating / D allowed 14 points, it was 24-0 before NE scored.

He won a playoff game with 4 completions, an INT and a QB rating of 10, tell me the D didn't have anything to do with it. In Flacco's 4 playoff victories, the most the D allowed was 14 points, they averaged giving up 10 points a game in his wins.

Same with Sanchez- in his four playoff victories, his D averages allowing 16 points a game. 2 of his playoff victories came with 60 QB ratings

In Ryan's two playoff losses, his D has allowed 30 and 48 points[ or 41 points]. He actually had much better numbers than Flacoo/Sanchez [in the games I pointed out] If his D had given up 10 or even 16 points a game, Ryan has 2 playoff victories.

And, yes, he might have lost the games anyway, no telling they would have turned out, but point is , Ryan had a much more difficult task winning a playoff game than Flacco or Sanchez.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're wrong by a wider margin than you care to admit- lots of folks aren't impressed by Vick's team's results.

I assume you mean playoff success, and it's simple- Flacco and Sanchez both have been backed up by much better Ds.

Here's Flacco's numbers from a couple of his playoff wins:

9 of 23 / 135 yards/ 0 / 0 59 QB rating / D allowed 9 points

4 of 10 34 yards 1 INT 10 QB rating / D allowed 14 points, it was 24-0 before NE scored.

He won a playoff game with 4 completions, an INT and a QB rating of 10, tell me the D didn't have anything to do with it. In Flacco's 4 playoff victories, the most the D allowed was 14 points, they averaged giving up 10 points a game in his wins.

Same with Sanchez- in his four playoff victories, his D averages allowing 16 points a game. 2 of his playoff victories came with 60 QB ratings

In Ryan's two playoff losses, his D has allowed 30 and 48 points[ or 41 points]. He actually had much better numbers than Flacoo/Sanchez [in the games I pointed out] If his D had given up 10 or even 16 points a game, Ryan has 2 playoff victories.

And, yes, he might have lost the games anyway, no telling they would have turned out, but point is , Ryan had a much more difficult task winning a playoff game than Flacco or Sanchez.

See this is what I'm talking about when I said you can't have it both ways. If it's about what the team does then go by wins/losses only and give credit to the quarterback. Since those two obviously had more success now you want to use individual performance.

In Vick's case since they lost in the first round you said that proves he's not effective because of the teams success. When I bring up the fact that he had a pro bowl and near MVP year you say that what he did on the field is not as important.

I bring up two guys that are on par with Ryan with team success(Flacco, Sanchez) and now all of sudden it matters what each do individually.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

See this is what I'm talking about when I said you can't have it both ways. If it's about what the team does then go by wins/losses only and give credit to the quarterback. Since those two obviously had more success now you want to use individual performance.

In Vick's case since they lost in the first round you said that proves he's not effective because of the teams success. When I bring up the fact that he had a pro bowl and near MVP year you say that what he did on the field is not as important.

I bring up two guys that are on par with Ryan with team success(Flacco, Sanchez) and now all of sudden it matters what each do individually.

You keep trying to twist what I say. Never said individual stats didn't matter- just that team stats are more important. Never said individual stats didn't show useful information. Never said what Vick does on the field wasn't important- it's very important- the reason he doesn't win enough games is because he makes way too many mistakes. He often makes up for it with a spectacular play, but too many times he doesn't.

Vick did a lot of impressive individual things last year, and they just didn't translate into team success. You apparently don't think it's too important to win games or to win playoff games- you're OK with a couple of good games and some amazing plays in the regular season. That's fine, I disagree.

And if you don't think that D wasn't important in Flacco's and Sanchez's playoff wins, you're in serious denial.

In 5 playoff games started, Vick has scored 5 TDs total. Total, in five games, tell me his D hasn't helped him win a couple of games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You keep trying to twist what I say. Never said individual stats didn't matter- just that team stats are more important. Never said individual stats didn't show useful information. Never said what Vick does on the field wasn't important- it's very important- the reason he doesn't win enough games is because he makes way too many mistakes. He often makes up for it with a spectacular play, but too many times he doesn't.

Vick did a lot of impressive individual things last year, and they just didn't translate into team success. You apparently don't think it's too important to win games or to win playoff games- you're OK with a couple of good games and some amazing plays in the regular season. That's fine, I disagree.

And if you don't think that D wasn't important in Flacco's and Sanchez's playoff wins, you're in serious denial.

In 5 playoff games started, Vick has scored 5 TDs total. Total, in five games, tell me his D hasn't helped him win a couple of games.

[random]Don't drive on 285 without air conditioning in the middle of the afternoon, It sucks!!![/random]

Anyways, I'm not twisting anything. Your the one that stated that even though Vick plays great he doesn't lead to team success because he missed some games and lost in the first round. Flacco and Sanchez do not get credit for there success in your view even though they have about as much or even more than our very own quarterback do to there poor play.

What you don't seem to understand is that I look at each player individually rather than in units. first thing I look at in a game is if a team won or not. After that I'll look at what one particular player did in that game to determine his worth.

If you play well and win...then you deserve praise.

If you play well and lose...well **** happens.

If you play poorly and win...you shouldn't get to much credit.

If you play poorly and lose...you deserve all the hate you get.

You blame his team losing games solely on Vick, and say that the two other qbs in discussion win in spite of their play. That's fine but from what I read on TAFT when anyone brings up Ryan's poor play against GB you start deflecting blame. If your going to place most of the blame on the quarterbacks of other teams then you should be consistent with everyone instead of a select few.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[random]Don't drive on 285 without air conditioning in the middle of the afternoon, It sucks!!![/random]

Anyways, I'm not twisting anything. Your the one that stated that even though Vick plays great he doesn't lead to team success because he missed some games and lost in the first round. Flacco and Sanchez do not get credit for there success in your view even though they have about as much or even more than our very own quarterback do to there poor play.

What you don't seem to understand is that I look at each player individually rather than in units. first thing I look at in a game is if a team won or not. After that I'll look at what one particular player did in that game to determine his worth.

If you play well and win...then you deserve praise.

If you play well and lose...well **** happens.

If you play poorly and win...you shouldn't get to much credit.

If you play poorly and lose...you deserve all the hate you get.

You blame his team losing games solely on Vick, and say that the two other qbs in discussion win in spite of their play. That's fine but from what I read on TAFT when anyone brings up Ryan's poor play against GB you start deflecting blame. If your going to place most of the blame on the quarterbacks of other teams then you should be consistent with everyone instead of a select few.

"What you don't seem to understand is that I look at each player individually rather than in units. first thing I look at in a game is if a team won or not. After that I'll look at what one particular player did in that game to determine his worth.

If you play well and win...then you deserve praise.

If you play well and lose...well **** happens.

If you play poorly and win...you shouldn't get to much credit.

If you play poorly and lose...you deserve all the hate you get."

This is exactly what I've been doing- only difference is you won't apply this when Vick has a bad game. Vick destroyed the eagles chances for a playoff bye, that they desperately needed, by playing a horrible game against Minn. You have never acknowledged that, I have, only differences in our points of view.

Same with the playoff game- Vick had to make one more play to win, he didn't make the play, and his play was the definition of mediocre- 5 of 13 on 3rd down, 55% completion, 1 TD, 1INT, 79 QB rating, 32 yards on 8 carries. He didn't play well- that's what you never admit.

Using your standards, Vick falls under the "deserve all the hate" for his last 2 games of the year and you never admit it.

You tell me how Sanchez and Flacco don't fall under the "you shouldn't get too much credit" category for their playoff wins. Which is exactly what I said.

And I have repeatedly stated that there was plenty of blame for Ryan- that night and ever since then, only thing I've claimed is that he doesn't deserve all of the blame.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a couple of typical posts from me on Ryan:

....

Ryan lost the game? So, explain to me how Owens meltdown is Ryan's fault, how Abe missing a sack is Ryan's fault, how the D not being able to ever force a punt is Ryan's fault, how Jenkins dropping a 3rd down pass and fumbling away a possession is Ryan's fault? How lofton not being to make a tackle is Ryan's fault, how Grimes not making a play or Turner's lack of production is Ryan's fault?

.....

Ryan certainly gets his share of the blame, but to say he lost the game by himself is just silly. He would have had to lead the team to at least 42 points to win the game. Yes he threw a pick 6, but it was only a two score game at half- if the D could have made a play, it would have helped considerably.

In response to a thread about the losses of the year:

Think you have to give Ryan more blame than you have FFS70. He had about half a dozen chances to make the big throw to win the pittsburgh game, missed some downfield shots in the Eagle game that would have changed it into a shootout, couldn't make the big play in the 2nd NO game and couldn't get anything going in the playoff game. He had a great year, those weren't his shining moments.

As far as the playoff game, I think Falcon fans will threaten their children with forced viewing of the tape of said game as punishment for generations. [...eat your spinach or you have to watch the 10 playoff game...]

Think he and Jenkins have to split the blame for the end zone interception and the pick 6 was just horrible. Worse was that he couldn't rally the team in the second half.

There's a difference between really good and elite, I'm expecting Ryan to become an elite QB next year. Figure that's 12 regular season wins and a deep playoff run.

Think Falcons were a 10 win team that won 13 by maxing out their talent, scheme and luck. I think the talent and scheme will be improved next year, don't know about the luck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a couple of typical posts from me on Ryan:

In response to a thread about the losses of the year:

Difference between sharing blame and putting all the blame on said player

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Difference between sharing blame and putting all the blame on said player

If you're talking about Ryan, that's what I said, if you're talking about Vick, never said he was solely responsible for losses. However, since you absolutely refuse to admit that Vick has flaws in his game, I have been emphasizing them in this conversation.

So, on your scale, where do you rank Vick's last two games of the season?, The Minn game and the playoff loss to GB?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you're talking about Ryan, that's what I said, if you're talking about Vick, never said he was solely responsible for losses. However, since you absolutely refuse to admit that Vick has flaws in his game, I have been emphasizing them in this conversation.

So, on your scale, where do you rank Vick's last two games of the season?, The Minn game and the playoff loss to GB?

You did put all the blame on Vick when you said he was not effective in the teams success. If he isn't then Ryan shouldn't be either in your view.

And how did I refuse to ignore Vick's flaws when I have been asking you questions the past couple of days?

Does he have flaws? yes I think he still has trouble reading defenses before the snap which showed in the Vikings game. He does put himself in situations to get hurt but that's what make Vick...Vick. We all know that Vick did not prepare here but if he pulls off what he did last year while staying healthy It's going to be a problem.

My scale of the last two games of his...He did not play well in the Vikings game, and the playoff game I think he played ok but the game was lost on the int in the endzone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You did put all the blame on Vick when you said he was not effective in the teams success. If he isn't then Ryan shouldn't be either in your view.

And how did I refuse to ignore Vick's flaws when I have been asking you questions the past couple of days?

Does he have flaws? yes I think he still has trouble reading defenses before the snap which showed in the Vikings game. He does put himself in situations to get hurt but that's what make Vick...Vick. We all know that Vick did not prepare here but if he pulls off what he did last year while staying healthy It's going to be a problem.

My scale of the last two games of his...He did not play well in the Vikings game, and the playoff game I think he played ok but the game was lost on the int in the endzone.

Where did I put all the blame on Vick? Never said it was all his fault. What I was doing was talking about what is his fault.

And where did I say Ryan was effective in the playoffs? He was in the regular season, not in the playoffs. You'll note I said Ryan was a good QB not an elite one [ it's implied, when I said that I expect him to become an elite QB next year]

And we weren't talking about Ryan, but since you seem to need everything spelled out for you:

In very different ways, both Ryan and Vick had great regular seasons [something I've told you before], but the things they didn't do mean that neither of them ultimately had a great season. Got to win in the playoffs.

When you assume criticism of Vick only comes from people with a personal grudge against him, you refusing to admit flaws. When you keep asking me how Vick isn't effective , you're refusing to admit his flaws. When you say you look at team results first and don't admit that he hurt his team by not playing and by losing to horrible teams, you're refusing to admit his flaws.

I've exchanged dozens of posts with you, this is the first time you've admitted he has flaws in his game. He's been playing since 2001, he shouldn't be confused by Ds- surprised occasionally, but not confused. That's what happens when you don't spend time in the film room. No way to prove it, but I'm sure Ryan has studied more film in 3 years than Vick has in 8. P Manning spends a month each off season reviewing every single throw he made that season.

I'm not saying he should be Manning, but Manning's work habits wouldn't hurt him any.

"if he pulls off what he did last year while staying healthy It's going to be a problem." It would be but he can't. Vick being Vick means he takes too many hits and will be beat up by the end of the year. He's had 5 years where he played more than a few games, same thing happened every year. He fades down the stretch, and doesn't have enough juice left to beat good Ds in the playoffs.

And how do rank Vick's games on your own scale? Where do they fit?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to NFL players Vick is ranked at # 20 and Ryan #52

According to fans Vick is ranked at #11 and Ryan #28

http://top100.nfl.com/

Both fans and players feel that Vick is better.. Fans seem to think both of them are better than their peers do...

The consensus seems to be outside of this message board that Vick>>Ryan

The top 10 looks pretty accurate..I personally feel that Brady should be #1 over Manning...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who cares in 3 years Vick will be out of the NFL due to sustained injuries while Ryan will be entering his prime.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who cares in 3 years Vick will be out of the NFL due to sustained injuries while Ryan will be entering his prime.

Oh yeah!!!! (Kool Aid man burta through a wall)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At the end of the day I wouldn't want Vick on my team. The disgusting morals, poor decision making, and baggage alone are enough to make me stay far away. Not to mention the fact that he can't stay healthy for an entire season, has poor leadership, and is very inconsistent.

kane#7 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"What you don't seem to understand is that I look at each player individually rather than in units. first thing I look at in a game is if a team won or not. After that I'll look at what one particular player did in that game to determine his worth.

If you play well and win...then you deserve praise.

If you play well and lose...well **** happens.

If you play poorly and win...you shouldn't get to much credit.

If you play poorly and lose...you deserve all the hate you get."

This is exactly what I've been doing- only difference is you won't apply this when Vick has a bad game. Vick destroyed the eagles chances for a playoff bye, that they desperately needed, by playing a horrible game against Minn. You have never acknowledged that, I have, only differences in our points of view.

Same with the playoff game- Vick had to make one more play to win, he didn't make the play, and his play was the definition of mediocre- 5 of 13 on 3rd down, 55% completion, 1 TD, 1INT, 79 QB rating, 32 yards on 8 carries. He didn't play well- that's what you never admit.

Using your standards, Vick falls under the "deserve all the hate" for his last 2 games of the year and you never admit it.

You tell me how Sanchez and Flacco don't fall under the "you shouldn't get too much credit" category for their playoff wins. Which is exactly what I said.

And I have repeatedly stated that there was plenty of blame for Ryan- that night and ever since then, only thing I've claimed is that he doesn't deserve all of the blame.

Vick also played with 2nd and 3rd stringers on his Oline , basically he didnt have one, and the Eagles defense sucked last season. Vick and the Eagles are gonna crush the Falcons this year. They sured up their Oline and have an all star dream team defense. Vick was a major influence of those FA's signing. Other teams offered them more but they wanted to play with Vick. Hmmm Nobody seems to want to join the Falcons because of poor little, matty ice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites