Jump to content

It's Really Interesting How Some Are Ready to Replace HD83...


Recommended Posts

Every point you try and make you get OWNED repeately...if you want to bring up TDs, Jenkins has 20 in 8 years...

Year 1: He caught 7 passes for 116 yards and played in 16 games

Year 7: He had 1 TD in 16 games. Even Marty Booker had 1 TD this year and played significantly less than Jenkins.

Year 8: He missed 5 games

Do the math... :D

He's not as bad as you'd like him to be and I truly believe that he'd be the type that you want him to be in any 3WR/4WR based offense. You'd totally have a point if we put the ball in the air 30 or 40 times per game for 8 years...

Haha you're a joke. If you look, the stats that he used were from 08-10. There you go skewing the stats again. 20 in 8 years.

But let's look at the timeframe that the argument is referring to: 2008 to 2010. In that timeframe, Jenkins has 6 TDs. Period. I am not skewing any data to make me look good nor have you "owned" me an any way when I bring up facts. You just dodge them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 195
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

If the coverage was so ridiculous on Roddy, how does he manage to 4 consecutive 1000 yard season. Honestly you make it seem as if Jenkins gets a lot of balls thrown his way. Jenkins makes plays on balls more often than not.

Because Roddy is just that much better than Jenkins. Good receivers find a way to impact the game regardless of help. Calvin Johnson had no help on that Lions team that went 0-16 yet he still broke 1300yds. Good receivers find a way to get the ball and make plays.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The point being it's hard to call an "explosive" play from the coaching booth. It's much easier to get explosive players and have them turn the basic into the spectacular.

This notion tells me that the big complaint is we don't have a shifty player that can take a 2 yard pass to the house.

I say that is BS. I really think HD, Weems and Norwood can all do that.

Roddy and Jenkins can go deep on you.

Turner, TonyG and Snelling can grind you into submission.

We just need to improve our execution. Coaches and players. To me we have everything you need to get it done except an Oline that can open holes and protect a QB against the top defenses and a real Super Bowl caliber defense. I have never seen a defense like ours win a Super Bowl. Ever. Even the IND and NO teams had better defenses.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This notion tells me that the big complaint is we don't have a shifty player that can take a 2 yard pass to the house.

I say that is BS. I really think HD, Weems and Norwood can all do that.

Roddy and Jenkins can go deep on you.

Turner, TonyG and Snelling can grind you into submission.

We just need to improve our execution. Coaches and players. To me we have everything you need to get it done except an Oline that can open holes and protect a QB against the top defenses and a real Super Bowl caliber defense. I have never seen a defense like ours win a Super Bowl. Ever. Even the IND and NO teams had better defenses.

Disagree, I'm not a fan of Mularkey by any stretch, but I'm pretty sure we would've seen more of Weems if the staff think could have helped. He couldn't. I'm all about giving HD another chance, but not only was he slow and couldn't get the timing down, he looked hesitant and that don't fly in the NFL. If there is someone better than Jenkins or HD available, we need to grab them, and let the roster spots fall where they may after training camp. 8 years of Jenkins and HD coming into his 4th, we should know what we have in these players and we don't. That's a problem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Disagree, I'm not a fan of Mularkey by any stretch, but I'm pretty sure we would've seen more of Weems if the staff think could have helped. He couldn't. I'm all about giving HD another chance, but not only was he slow and couldn't get the timing down, he looked hesitant and that don't fly in the NFL. If there is someone better than Jenkins or HD available, we need to grab them, and let the roster spots fall where they may after training camp. 8 years of Jenkins and HD coming into his 4th, we should know what we have in these players and we don't. That's a problem.

I agree. Jenkins has long speed but that is if he is untouched. He probably is more of a 4.5 runner in the game. That isn't a deep threat. Look at most of his deep highlights. He is untouched.

I think HD deserves another shot. We should expect more like his rookie year than drops like last year. We know he isn't slow. So clearly it was the knee.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because Roddy is just that much better than Jenkins. Good receivers find a way to impact the game regardless of help. Calvin Johnson had no help on that Lions team that went 0-16 yet he still broke 1300yds. Good receivers find a way to get the ball and make plays.

So he's (Roddy)is not doubled as much as you want us to think. If you theory is correct about Jenkins, why wouldn't every team double Roddy and Gonzo? :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So he's (Roddy)is not doubled as much as you want us to think. If you theory is correct about Jenkins, why wouldn't every team double Roddy and Gonzo? :D

They don't have the personnel so they wait to see who gets hot throughout the game and then double who ever can't be contained with out it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They don't have the personnel so they wait to see who gets hot throughout the game and then double who ever can't be contained with out it.

So which #2WR in the NFL would you like to see come to the Atlanta Falcons? Who's your #2WR in a simular offensive scheme that you'd like to see come in and compete w/Jenkins?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So which #2WR in the NFL would you like to see come to the Atlanta Falcons? Who's your #2WR in a simular offensive scheme that you'd like to see come in and compete w/Jenkins?

I was speaking about other not having the personnel to double both Roddy and Tony.

But to answer your question, I would have loved if we got Boldin. We wouldn't have lost any blocking ability, he is one tough SOB and defenses respect him cuz he can score from anywhere.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Look, it's not the scheme. It's not the players. There are a lot of situations that contributed to our lack of big plays this season. Jenkins was slowed by injury. Douglas was rushed into the #2 role temporarily and then pushed back to #3 while recovering from injury. We played with a lead in most games and did not have to play catch up or NEED the big play, so we did not push for it as much as other teams.

2008 - Ryan (rookie), Roddy, Jenkins, Turner, Norwood, Douglas, Finneran, and Peelle were our primary offensive contributors. Mularkey was our OC. We ranked 10th in 20+ yard plays with 45 of them.

We had basically the same WR corps in 2008 and the same OC and same system as we do now. The difference was that our offensive playmakers were completely healthy, our defense was giving up more points, and we had to take more risks.

I know everybody thinks our offense was much better in 2008 than it was last season because it was more exciting and we had more explosive plays. But consider this. In 2008 we scored less points per game and our turnover margin was -3. This past season, our turnover margin was +14. Our offense was not as exciting, was not as "explosive", but it was more effective, and I'll take effective over explosive any day of the week.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was speaking about other not having the personnel to double both Roddy and Tony.

But to answer your question, I would have loved if we got Boldin. We wouldn't have lost any blocking ability, he is one tough SOB and defenses respect him cuz he can score from anywhere.

I wonder why we didn't get him. The Ravens got him for a 3rd and 4th...he's their #2WR with 64/837 and 7TDs. Now why is it that the Falcons didn't make this deal? He has consistantly produced #1WR numbers...I'm curious. What do you think?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Look, it's not the scheme. It's not the players. There are a lot of situations that contributed to our lack of big plays this season. Jenkins was slowed by injury. Douglas was rushed into the #2 role temporarily and then pushed back to #3 while recovering from injury. We played with a lead in most games and did not have to play catch up or NEED the big play, so we did not push for it as much as other teams.

2008 - Ryan (rookie), Roddy, Jenkins, Turner, Norwood, Douglas, Finneran, and Peelle were our primary offensive contributors. Mularkey was our OC. We ranked 10th in 20+ yard plays with 45 of them.

We had basically the same WR corps in 2008 and the same OC and same system as we do now. The difference was that our offensive playmakers were completely healthy, our defense was giving up more points, and we had to take more risks.

I know everybody thinks our offense was much better in 2008 than it was last season because it was more exciting and we had more explosive plays. But consider this. In 2008 we scored less points per game and our turnover margin was -3. This past season, our turnover margin was +14. Our offense was not as exciting, was not as "explosive", but it was more effective, and I'll take effective over explosive any day of the week.

MM kept everyone guessing as well. He has the notion to throw a slant pattern for Ryan's first professional pass. He knew exactly when to use the hurry-up. But this is the one the about that year the puzzled me: In the playoff, he did nothing to change up the snap count. They rattled Ryan all game long with anticipating the same snap count... :wacko: He gets way to content with being methodical when he should be thinking outside the box. Ryan is the type of QB that needs to call the shots without hinderence....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder why we didn't get him. The Ravens got him for a 3rd and 4th...he's their #2WR with 64/837 and 7TDs. Now why is it that the Falcons didn't make this deal? He has consistantly produced #1WR numbers...I'm curious. What do you think?

We both can speculate but we will never know. I can say it cost too much and try to explain it all day and you can say they value Jenkins too much and try and explain it all day but neither of us know

Link to comment
Share on other sites

MM kept everyone guessing as well. He has the notion to throw a slant pattern for Ryan's first professional pass. He knew exactly when to use the hurry-up. But this is the one the about that year the puzzled me: In the playoff, he did nothing to change up the snap count. They rattled Ryan all game long with anticipating the same snap count... :wacko: He gets way to content with being methodical when he should be thinking outside the box. Ryan is the type of QB that needs to call the shots without hinderence....

Now this is something we agree on. MM can be very good and then very bad but never in between or consistent. I think Bratkowski would be more willing to let Ryan help design the playcalling since Ryan seems to thrive in the no huddle with his own play call options.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder why we didn't get him. The Ravens got him for a 3rd and 4th...he's their #2WR with 64/837 and 7TDs. Now why is it that the Falcons didn't make this deal? He has consistantly produced #1WR numbers...I'm curious. What do you think?

It could be because Jenkins caught 7 TDs from Vick in 2006, 777 yards from Ryan in 2008, 25 20+ receptions from Ryan in 2008 and 2009 and was on pace for 60+ receptions from Ryan in 2010. That's with some bad balls.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We both can speculate but we will never know. I can say it cost too much and try to explain it all day and you can say they value Jenkins too much and try and explain it all day but neither of us know

The fact that he is still here and Boldin isn't coupled with that fact that no one has taken his position speaks volumes to me....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

MM kept everyone guessing as well. He has the notion to throw a slant pattern for Ryan's first professional pass. He knew exactly when to use the hurry-up. But this is the one the about that year the puzzled me: In the playoff, he did nothing to change up the snap count. They rattled Ryan all game long with anticipating the same snap count... :wacko: He gets way to content with being methodical when he should be thinking outside the box. Ryan is the type of QB that needs to call the shots without hinderence....

I thought in 2008/2010 the offense regressed the later stages of both seasons. Thus, partially accounting for the results in the play-offs. With the position ATL had in the standings going into the last qtr of the season, I can't understand why the offense got seemingly more conservative and tight. We should have been trying different things and sought to get HD or Weems more involved, particularly in 2010. Waiting until the play-offs, as TD put it to include HD more, still baffles me.

+1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a reason why we are close to, if not, the bottom of offensive plays that extend beyond 20+ yards...and going out to replace HD83 or Jenkins is not the answer. Just spread the ball around....

I somewhat agree. I still Think we need to replace HD's slot pos. but still use him alot

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jenkins was in a full out sprint from the line of scrimmage. To make any kind of play on the ball would result in some Barry Sanders, stop on the dime type stuff to just to get an offensive pass interference. The ball was that short.

If the pass was floated so badly then he should have had plenty of thime to stop and gather his feet. Maybe he should work on his ball recognition skills.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

stop smokin.... :D

I know we like to breakdown plays and lay blame, but in all seriousness, it's impossible for us to say who is at fault on any given play. Let's use that play as an example. Lets say the play call is a post route and Jenkins sees the back of the endzone open so he runs the route deep and the pass ends up being underthrown. From the QB perspective, he sees his 6'4" WR in one on one coverage with a 5'11" CB and no Safety help. In that situation, the QB wants to throw it high and short to make sure he doesn't overthrow the WR, and give his WR time to adjust, get position, plant, and out jump the much shorter CB for the TD.

My point is that if Jenkins didn't adjust his route pattern based on the defense, he would be at fault for over running his route. If Ryan was supposed to throw it deep and to the back of the endzone, than it was an underthrown pass. Randy Moss has gotten half of his TD's by having his QB throw it higher and shorter to let him go up and get it. The playcall is not to go downfield and stop, turn, and out jump the CB. The play call might be a corner route and both the QB and WR know if they get the matchup they want, throw it short and high so it's catchable and the WR has the size advantage to make the play. It's also why it's important for a QB and WR to play together for a long time, to build that chemistry, to know what each other are going to do when they get a certain look and reaction by a defense.

The only time we can confidently say a QB made a bad throw is if he threw into double or triple coverage. Otherwise, we can't tell if the WR ran the route properly, he could go too deep or shallow and it makes it look like a horrible throw. We can also say with confidence that if a QB throws at single coverage, it was the right decision regardless of the result. That throw by Ryan on that play was definitely the right decision. If we want to blame anybody, it's both of them, because they obviously weren't on the same page as to where the play should've been made.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought in 2008/2010 the offense regressed the later stages of both seasons. Thus, partially accounting for the results in the play-offs. With the position ATL had in the standings going into the last qtr of the season, I can't understand why the offense got seemingly more conservative and tight. We should have been trying different things and sought to get HD or Weems more involved, particularly in 2010. Waiting until the play-offs, as TD put it to include HD more, still baffles me.

+1

Sorry, but I have to call you out on this one. Our offense did not regress in the later part of the 2010 season. We scored over 30 points in 3 out of our last 4 regular season games. We scored over 30 points in only 2 out of our first 12 games. I don't know how you can say we regressed offensively in the later part of the 2010 season. That's so far from the truth. Our offense was very hot closing out the season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...