The Birds are the truth Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 If they didn't live the way they got paid, they wouldn't have anything to complain about. I find it funny when a guy that makes more than 2 million a year says he can't afford to feed his family.OK! +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texas falcon Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 OK, so what is your point here? These guys work for owners of teams who have built an empire that employs thousands of good people. No matter what sport you play, you are playing a game that pays an incredible wage. A game! These guys are blessed beyond measure and when compared to private enterprise business, get paid light years more money. They are put on a pedestool and looked up to by millions who admire them. Very few of them, outside of just showing up for practice and games, have anything to do with the business model. Stadiums, clubhouses, financial risk, capital investment, oversight, insurance, etc. etc. etc. etc.Where do some of these players get such of sense of entitlement? Of course the league needs its players, popular ones or nobodies, but just because your in a union does not give you THE RIGHT to have another persons wealth. Its why America is divided 50/50. 50% think they have a right to the paychecks of hard working american citizens who are getting raped by the government. Of course the other 50% doesn't give a rats azz about how much tax is being taken out of the other guys paycheck cuz they don't have to feel the pain that goes along with wondering if a guy can keep his family fed, insured, schooled, clothed, protected, housed, driven, and 1000 other things.HERE HERE I AM WITH, BY 1000000 %There are always those who deserve help. And I mean real help, not this arrogant "you owe me a living" crock of $hit. The players need to do some soul searching. The owners should be willing to offer insurance and benefits and take care of their own. But they are being asked to nearly share their ownership with people who take none of the financial burdens or risks themselves. All of them are soaked w/ greed and that is what is clouding this thing. There is no reason in creation that both sides couldn't find a reasonable solution and I am beginning to dislike them all. Just like when I pay taxes and it goes for supporting people who think they are entitled to it, I get resentful. When is the last time you got a thank you card from anyone who chooses to do nothing to find real employment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
van note Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 The players are not asking for more money, they are asking to keep the share the same or have the owners justify why they should take less share by opening the books. The owners are wholly responsible for the lockout and no one else. This can be settled on the sidelines as football goes on.The owners are having a hissy fit because they aren't getting their way and making you and I pay for it.True. The owners are the ones wanting to take an additional billion dollars off the top. The players are saying no, keep it the same as before. The owners claim they need more money while making revenue from stadiums that are payed for by tax payers. As far as I'm concerned, from a tax payers point of view, let the owners skim the billion only if they pay for their own stadiums. Of course, if they had to pay for them, buying concessions would require a 2nd mortgage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birds_till_death Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 True. The owners are the ones wanting to take an additional billion dollars off the top. The players are saying no, keep it the same as before. The owners claim they need more money while making revenue from stadiums that are payed for by tax payers. As far as I'm concerned, from a tax payers point of view, let the owners skim the billion only if they pay for their own stadiums. Of course, if they had to pay for them, buying concessions would require a 2nd mortgage.That's my whole problem with this. The players keep saying they don't want to give up any money, but they want better health care, retirement plans, post career benefits, etc.....The owners are saying, we will offer you these things, lower the amount of practices during the season, reduce offseason workouts by FIVE WEEKS, limit padded practices during the season, and provide lifetime health insurance, increase retirement benefits by up to 60% for many players, etc...; but to get these things, we will have to lower your profit share so it can be spent on the other ancillary things you want.I see it as the players want to have their cake and eat it too. They really don't care about the retirement packages and longterm health care because they are still playing, it's not a true concern to them. So they want all the money they can get NOW, and don't realize or think about the fact that giving up a share of the cash and profit from the league now will go a long way to their future post NFL with the offers the NFL put on the table.Everyone is talking about the owners greed b/c they are locking out, but the owners are trying to offer all of the things the players keep saying they want more of. The players aren't willing to give up anything to get it the extra post career benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ransack Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 NFL makes more money than NBA and MLB and on average, NFL players get paid less than NBA and MLB.There are also twice to three times as many players to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dem Birds Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 NFL makes more money than NBA and MLB and on average, NFL players get paid less than NBA and MLB.There are a lot more players on a roster for football though. So the owners probably end up spending around the same in salaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miller2Rison Posted April 7, 2011 Author Share Posted April 7, 2011 That's my whole problem with this. The players keep saying they don't want to give up any money, but they want better health care, retirement plans, post career benefits, etc.....The owners are saying, we will offer you these things, lower the amount of practices during the season, reduce offseason workouts by FIVE WEEKS, limit padded practices during the season, and provide lifetime health insurance, increase retirement benefits by up to 60% for many players, etc...; but to get these things, we will have to lower your profit share so it can be spent on the other ancillary things you want.I see it as the players want to have their cake and eat it too. They really don't care about the retirement packages and longterm health care because they are still playing, it's not a true concern to them. So they want all the money they can get NOW, and don't realize or think about the fact that giving up a share of the cash and profit from the league now will go a long way to their future post NFL with the offers the NFL put on the table.Everyone is talking about the owners greed b/c they are locking out, but the owners are trying to offer all of the things the players keep saying they want more of. The players aren't willing to give up anything to get it the extra post career benefits.Amen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chitown2ATL_Falcon Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Honestly, we all can make that argument. The way I see it, if I'm an owner and you and I have a contract then why would you as a player be worried about what I have as an owner?I don't until you renege on our agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bubba Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 NFL makes more money than NBA and MLB and on average, NFL players get paid less than NBA and MLB.How many games are in a regular NBA and MLB season compared to a regular nfl season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulitik Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 How many games are in a regular NBA and MLB season compared to a regular nfl season?Good point, but the practice and film study time probably makes up for it. I'd like to see the revenue brought in one MLB, NBA, NHL, and NFL season. MLB probably wins in ticket sales and concessions, but the NFL banks in TV revenue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarterback Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 I don't until you renege on our agreement.Once again, the owners did not renege (to fail to carry out a promise or commitment). They exersized their mutually agreed upon option to end the 5 year CBA agreement. They honored the 5 year agreement for all 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrobinson3803 Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Stop posting BS when you don't know what your talking about. The players have not asked for more money. They just want justification as to why the should take less of a share when the league is still growing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karst41 Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 As a business owner,, I will say this.After all expenses are paid, I am left with a net Profit andthen pay taxes on that.On your net, you want that to be 35%,, but I deserve better than that.The goal is after taxes you want 35%.That is a Healthy and profitable business that investors love to eitherbuy or buy into.If the players want 65% of the net Profit, they can go fark them self's !The court will rule that a business owner has rights to his net profitsbefore and after taxes.IMO this would be 60% of the Net to the players and player funding accounts.For perspective, the Old and true saying goes like this."Making a Million Dollars is the easy part. Keeping it is the hard part." Frank Osborne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanINT+1 Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 all these people bitching about the players side of things, I'd laugh to see how pissed you'd be if your employer cut your 10 dollar an hour pay down to min wage, bet you'd be complaining then.you guys don't really understand, Veteran guys that are fighting for a good deal for the NPA aren't really fighting for thier money, Guys like Brady, manning, Brees, etc.. They already have thier millions and will be paid regardless, these guys are fighting for the players that get paid very little in comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Falcon Jedi Knight Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 roddywhiteTV Roddy White @ @JediFalcon1 I aint bitching I'm richer than a ma f**ker I got enough money to kick back and put my feet up for the rest of my life 17 hours ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribal Chief Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 roddywhiteTV Roddy White @ @JediFalcon1 I aint bitching I'm richer than a ma f**ker I got enough money to kick back and put my feet up for the rest of my life 17 hours ago At least he kept it real. I saw that tweet last night lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lufgow Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 If the fans don't like it, they need to stop buying tickets and merchandise. If enough do this then both the NFL owners and the players will find ways to earn back the trust of the people. Right now, we are Rome. Our Gladiators entertain us therefore we pay a high price for said entertainment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isproab Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Why are we still having this argument? Let it work itself out. No amount of argument and taking one side or the other is going to fix the situation.I find it so funny that so many on this board are so concerned with other people’s wallets and bank accounts. Many of us will raise **** if we go to buy a product at a local retailer and it is displayed at one priced but rings up $3 too much at the register. It’s about the principal and getting a good at the price it is advertised for. Honestly, when you are talking about millions and hundreds of thousands, the small change is more than a lot of us will ever see at one time.I don’t begrudge the players for wanting the owners to prove that they are struggling, especially since they agreed to a deal and now want money back. Owners do take a lot of risk and put up a lot of money, but the teams are only as good as the players. If you don’t have good players you don’t have a good product. No fan is going to come support a bad team and bad teams don’t typically have large revenue streams.Every day I hear someone complaining about government and taxes. How small businesses should be able to keep even more of their money because it is their s and they earned it. I ask myself, why does this not apply to athletes? I see so much ill will directed towards them because they have the ability to make millions in just a few short years. Everybody wants to burn them at the stake for fighting for their earning potential but it’s ok for the local mom and pop store to moan and groan and fight about taxes??? I call that a double standard. Let the involved parties work it out, we will have football when people start being reasonable and logical about the situation and work on a compromise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLfanintheROC Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Why are we still having this argument? Let it work itself out. No amount of argument and taking one side or the other is going to fix the situation.I find it so funny that so many on this board are so concerned with other people’s wallets and bank accounts. Many of us will raise **** if we go to buy a product at a local retailer and it is displayed at one priced but rings up $3 too much at the register. It’s about the principal and getting a good at the price it is advertised for. Honestly, when you are talking about millions and hundreds of thousands, the small change is more than a lot of us will ever see at one time.I don’t begrudge the players for wanting the owners to prove that they are struggling, especially since they agreed to a deal and now want money back. Owners do take a lot of risk and put up a lot of money, but the teams are only as good as the players. If you don’t have good players you don’t have a good product. No fan is going to come support a bad team and bad teams don’t typically have large revenue streams.Every day I hear someone complaining about government and taxes. How small businesses should be able to keep even more of their money because it is their s and they earned it. I ask myself, why does this not apply to athletes? I see so much ill will directed towards them because they have the ability to make millions in just a few short years. Everybody wants to burn them at the stake for fighting for their earning potential but it’s ok for the local mom and pop store to moan and groan and fight about taxes??? I call that a double standard. Let the involv ed parties work it out, we will have football when people start being reasonable and logical about the situation and work on a compromise.Its b/c they play a game for millions & most of us have to usually settle for an ugly wife, annoying kids, a job we h8 & have to huuf it the hard way @ college in 100k of debt while the "chosen" 1s get a free education, millions of $$$, sexy wife & don't have to scrap by. Yet they complain about paying insurance lol. It about the fact the rich always seem to coast by in everything while we continually get shafted by the rich all the while we argue amongst ourselves choosing "sides". I jst have 1 question for them:how would you feel if you were the avg joe, cuz for the most part we would all trade for you lives in a 1/2 a second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribal Chief Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Its b/c they play a game for millions & most of us have to usually settle for an ugly wife, annoying kids, a job we h8 & have to huuf it the hard way @ college in 100k of debt while the "chosen" 1s get a free education, millions of $$$, sexy wife & don't have to scrap by. Yet they complain about paying insurance lol. It about the fact the rich always seem to coast by in everything while we continually get shafted by the rich all the while we argue amongst ourselves choosing "sides". I jst have 1 question for them:how would you feel if you were the avg joe, cuz for the most part we would all trade for you lives in a 1/2 a second.I take it things didn't work out as planned. lol j/k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miller2Rison Posted April 10, 2011 Author Share Posted April 10, 2011 Why are we still having this argument? Let it work itself out. No amount of argument and taking one side or the other is going to fix the situation.I find it so funny that so many on this board are so concerned with other people’s wallets and bank accounts. Many of us will raise **** if we go to buy a product at a local retailer and it is displayed at one priced but rings up $3 too much at the register. It’s about the principal and getting a good at the price it is advertised for. Honestly, when you are talking about millions and hundreds of thousands, the small change is more than a lot of us will ever see at one time.I don’t begrudge the players for wanting the owners to prove that they are struggling, especially since they agreed to a deal and now want money back. Owners do take a lot of risk and put up a lot of money, but the teams are only as good as the players. If you don’t have good players you don’t have a good product. No fan is going to come support a bad team and bad teams don’t typically have large revenue streams.Every day I hear someone complaining about government and taxes. How small businesses should be able to keep even more of their money because it is their s and they earned it. I ask myself, why does this not apply to athletes? I see so much ill will directed towards them because they have the ability to make millions in just a few short years. Everybody wants to burn them at the stake for fighting for their earning potential but it’s ok for the local mom and pop store to moan and groan and fight about taxes??? I call that a double standard. Let the involved parties work it out, we will have football when people start being reasonable and logical about the situation and work on a compromise.This brings my point back up on the orignal comparison to the Arena League, players that once grossed 100k in a year came back to the league after the 2008 defunct year to play for $400 a game (about 8k a year) simply bc they love the game and they loved playing in the league they played in. a lot of you say if these millionaire F**s were not NFL players no body would watch the NFL, i beg to differ. If semi-pro players happened to take over the NFL cuz Manning and Brees "were not being paid fairly" i would still support the NFL in a heart beat. I sometimes question if some of these players truly do love the game, if they are so worried about what the owners are making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isproab Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 This brings my point back up on the orignal comparison to the Arena League, players that once grossed 100k in a year came back to the league after the 2008 defunct year to play for $400 a game (about 8k a year) simply bc they love the game and they loved playing in the league they played in. a lot of you say if these millionaire F**s were not NFL players no body would watch the NFL, i beg to differ. If semi-pro players happened to take over the NFL cuz Manning and Brees "were not being paid fairly" i would still support the NFL in a heart beat. I sometimes question if some of these players truly do love the game, if they are so worried about what the owners are making.The nature of how the money is handed out is part of the problem. In the corporate world, we don't talk about salary. I don't know what my teammates make and they don't know what I make. If everybody talked about their salary, I'm sure there would be some unhappy people. It makes a difference if you came to a company from outside vs working your way up. That person that worked their way up may be making less than somebody off the street who may have likely gotten what the market pays. Somebody in housed for years and promoted into a position may not really have a clue as to what the market rate is. Companies also tend to cap the amount you can be given for raises and promotions.I say that to point out that money always matters. People are always concerned what they are making compared to someone else, especially when you can see tangible evidence that you may be better than someone else that makes more than you.I know this is players vs owners and not player vs player (except for maybe rookie scale), but I can see players saying no to giving money back to the owners when the owners are not showing the books. We know they are already loaded. I've run into a lot of people that are just money driven. Never satisfied and always want more. I don't know if the owners are justified in this case. Players make a lot too, but when you look at the NFL and how much they bring in vs. MLB and NBA, why do NFL players generally make less and have the most to lose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lufgow Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 The nature of how the money is handed out is part of the problem. In the corporate world, we don't talk about salary. I don't know what my teammates make and they don't know what I make. If everybody talked about their salary, I'm sure there would be some unhappy people. It makes a difference if you came to a company from outside vs working your way up. That person that worked their way up may be making less than somebody off the street who may have likely gotten what the market pays. Somebody in housed for years and promoted into a position may not really have a clue as to what the market rate is. Companies also tend to cap the amount you can be given for raises and promotions.I say that to point out that money always matters. People are always concerned what they are making compared to someone else, especially when you can see tangible evidence that you may be better than someone else that makes more than you.I know this is players vs owners and not player vs player (except for maybe rookie scale), but I can see players saying no to giving money back to the owners when the owners are not showing the books. We know they are already loaded. I've run into a lot of people that are just money driven. Never satisfied and always want more. I don't know if the owners are justified in this case. Players make a lot too, but when you look at the NFL and how much they bring in vs. MLB and NBA, why do NFL players generally make less and have the most to lose?Smaller rosters. The NFL have a 53 man roster then you factor in practice squad. They are all greedy and petty. Right now their biggest argument is where to have negotiation held. That's petty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarterback Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 ...but I can see players saying no to giving money back to the owners when the owners are not showing the books. Uh, hello?The players are paid by the owners.The players are not partners or stock holders thus the owners are not compelled to open their books to the players (employees). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karst41 Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Uh, hello?The players are paid by the owners.The players are not partners or stock holders thus the owners are not compelled to open their books to the players (employees).If the players were paid on a Percentage basis then that would entitle them to look at the books.But, the players want contracts with guaranteed money.So if they want guarantees, along with a percentage, the end result will be no more NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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