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Switch to the 3-4


ru_serious
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First I would like to say that I think BVG has done what he can with what he has been given to work with. I think we have the personell to run the 3-4 already in place. The only issue I would see is what to do with JA55. I see him as the only piece that doesn't fit. I don't know if he has any trade value, but he doesn't have a whole lot left in the tank.

Looking back ar Kroy when he first came in the league 20 lbs lighter he was much more athletic and explosive. He has put on weight to try and play a 4-3 end and it's not working out. JA98 is more of a 3-4 end than a 4-3 end. Walker is one heck of a run stuffer(nose). He or Peters or Lewis could battle it out for the starting spot and of course we would still rotate. Babs and Peria at the ends with Davis and JA98 rotating.

We could move Peterson to an ILB and get a couple more years out of him while cutting down on his coverage responsibilities, or we could move Spoon (I heard someone at the senior bowl mention he wanted to play on the inside...don't know it for a fact)inside and go after another edge rusher like a Justin Houston. I would prefer more of an all around athlete though. Someone qbs wouldn't know is rushing all of the time, but isn't just lost if we do drop him in coverage like JA55.

DE:Babs, Peria, JA98, Davis

DT or Nose: Vance, Peters, Lewis

MLB:Lofton, Pete or Spoon

OLB:Kroy(a slimmer more athletic Kroy), Spoon or FA/draft pick, Nicholas?(he can rush and isn't completely inept at coverage) Nicholas as possibly an ILB also

or we could just go out and find a 4-3 DE and leave the rest alone....i hate the offseason

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First I would like to say that I think BVG has done what he can with what he has been given to work with. I think we have the personell to run the 3-4 already in place. The only issue I would see is what to do with JA55. I see him as the only piece that doesn't fit. I don't know if he has any trade value, but he doesn't have a whole lot left in the tank.

Looking back ar Kroy when he first came in the league 20 lbs lighter he was much more athletic and explosive. He has put on weight to try and play a 4-3 end and it's not working out. JA98 is more of a 3-4 end than a 4-3 end. Walker is one heck of a run stuffer(nose). He or Peters or Lewis could battle it out for the starting spot and of course we would still rotate. Babs and Peria at the ends with Davis and JA98 rotating.

We could move Peterson to an ILB and get a couple more years out of him while cutting down on his coverage responsibilities, or we could move Spoon (I heard someone at the senior bowl mention he wanted to play on the inside...don't know it for a fact)inside and go after another edge rusher like a Justin Houston. I would prefer more of an all around athlete though. Someone qbs wouldn't know is rushing all of the time, but isn't just lost if we do drop him in coverage like JA55.

DE:Babs, Peria, JA98, Davis

DT or Nose: Vance, Peters, Lewis

MLB:Lofton, Pete or Spoon

OLB:Kroy(a slimmer more athletic Kroy), Spoon or FA/draft pick, Nicholas?(he can rush and isn't completely inept at coverage) Nicholas as possibly an ILB also

or we could just go out and find a 4-3 DE and leave the rest alone....i hate the offseason

Babs is a good size for a 3-4 DE, so is Jerry. But Peters is too small to be a NT. I think that Spoon would fit well at an OLB. ILB would probably have to be Lofton and Nicholas. But I would rather just stay 4-3.

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Babs is a good size for a 3-4 DE, so is Jerry. But Peters is too small to be a NT. I think that Spoon would fit well at an OLB. ILB would probably have to be Lofton and Nicholas. But I would rather just stay 4-3.

I think Vance and Lewis would be a good rotation at the nose. If we wanted to make Peters fit then we would definitely put 20 or so lbs on him. Just wouldn't want him to lose too much penetration ability. If not he could play the DE spot also.

The only problem I have with the 4-3 is in a year or so we are going to need 2 DEs. Kroy just isn't cutting it and Abe isn't getting any younger. But, a switch to the 3-4 means we won't have as many holes to fill. Maybe a true nose, but I think Vance could stand up to the challenge.

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Probably means a new HC as well. BVG is running what Mike Smith wants to run defensively. If Smith had wanted to run the 3-4, he would have brought in a 3-4 DC not a 4-3 one.

True, but a lot of our front 7 personell just don't fit the 4-3 as well as . As a coach you need to adapt to what you have. Especially when your window of opportunity is open.

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You left out the player the fit the scheme the most witch is Sid he fits the bill as 34 OLB. But a 43 can beat the best teams if you have the right players Giants vs Pats.

I don't really know what to think of Sid right now. I do think a 4-3 can beat anyone, but we don't have those players. I just think a lot of our players would flourish in a 3-4.

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Bierman, Nicholas, and Peterson

Peterson fit the scheme he is just getting older. Nick should be playing weak instead of strong. And Bierman fits a 43 better then a 34 just because hes a undersize pass rusher dosent make him a 34 LB. He is the last person I would want to see covering TE's and Rb's every other play.

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Peterson fit the scheme he is just getting older. Nick should be playing weak instead of strong. And Bierman fits a 43 better then a 34 just because hes a undersize pass rusher dosent make him a 34 LB. He is the last person I would want to see covering TE's and Rb's every other play.

Not weighing 270 like he does now.(he beefed up a lot to play with his hand in the dirt) Get him back down to his weight he came in as and stand him up and he is much more athletic. He would be much better at it I think. Check out his college tapes. Not necessarily the plays, but they way he moved.

Also run it correctly and most of the time running backs and TEs will have to stay in to protect.

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we dont have the best personnel for it really.

Our DL would be OK, but would need a top NT. Peters is actually physically OK for it, but NT is the most important spot on the line in a 3-4.

Our LBs on the other hand, not so hot. Abe 5 years ago maybe, but not now. Kroy and Sid maybe, but not in coverage.

The ILB spot is where we would be best. Lofton, Weatherspoon would both be very good ILB's in the scheme.

with that said, we still need a LOT less for s top 4-3. We need a stud LE, and it is done!

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we dont have the best personnel for it really.

Our DL would be OK, but would need a top NT. Peters is actually physically OK for it, but NT is the most important spot on the line in a 3-4.

Our LBs on the other hand, not so hot. Abe 5 years ago maybe, but not now. Kroy and Sid maybe, but not in coverage.

The ILB spot is where we would be best. Lofton, Weatherspoon would both be very good ILB's in the scheme.

with that said, we still need a LOT less for s top 4-3. We need a stud LE, and it is done!

For next year maybe. But then we need a replacement for abe and another OLB. In base package we would be fine. Most elite teams rarely come out in their base offense except the Falcons though.

How about Kroy and Spoon at OLB and Lofton and Nicholas at inside? or Lofton and Pete at ILB and Spoon and Kroy/Nicholas/Sid at OLB?

Edited by ru_serious
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I'm ready for a move back to the 3-4.

Bring Wade back for a couple years. He can work smoke and mirrors with undersized DTs.

3-4s rule the NFL. Can stop the run and make most good QBs' lives miserable.

Why did we stop running it after Wade left?

Was it the new coaches or changes in player personnel?

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Just wondering. Why would we switch schemes? Ignoring the inherent problems of our current coaching, drafting the past years, our roster, etc., I don't see why we would switch at this point. I don't think we would gain much of anything out of it.

If there are all of those problems then the question is why would we stay the same?

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Switching to the 3-4 isn't a magic bullet that's all of a sudden going to make the Falcons better. Within every defensive alignment, the inherent effectiveness comes from the available pieces and the way they are deployed -- i.e. philosophy. When Green Bay went to a 3-4, they didn't automatically become better because of it. The transition was made seamless because the move coincided with the acquiring of the two parts you have to have -- a NT and a premium pass rushing LB (Raji/Matthews). If they don't scoop those guys up in the same draft the move would have been doomed.

Philosophically, the move to a 3-4 doesn't make you better, either. You can switch to a 3-4 and be just as stale as a vanilla 4-3. The Bills didn't become a more dynamic defense when they went to a 3-4, neither did the Jags, Cardinals, etc.

Like offensive schemes, it's all about your mindset, how aggressive your playcalling is. The Parcells version of the 3-4 for instance relied on BIG players that lined up and beat the **** out of you. It was a 2 gap scheme. It was pretty straightforward. The coverages were fairly basic -- an almost bend-but-don't-break. There was no zone-blitz magic to it, no Troy Polamalu's coming out of nowhere. It was Lawrence Taylor outmanning anyone in front of him and destroying the other team's quarterback.

At the other end of the spectrum is the Wade Phillips version. His fronts can actually look a lot like the 4-3. In Dallas he used more of a one gap scheme that relied on quickness not size. There was more blitzing from the secondary, etc.

Don't get too caught up in 3-4/4-3. The alignment that the Falcons is running is just fine. It just needs more bite to it, ie. more effective parts. You could go to a 3-4 tomorrow and there wouldn't be any more pressure or chaos.

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Switching to the 3-4 isn't a magic bullet that's all of a sudden going to make the Falcons better. Within every defensive alignment, the inherent effectiveness comes from the available pieces and the way they are deployed -- i.e. philosophy. When Green Bay went to a 3-4, they didn't automatically become better because of it. The transition was made seamless because the move coincided with the acquiring of the two parts you have to have -- a NT and a premium pass rushing LB (Raji/Matthews). If they don't scoop those guys up in the same draft the move would have been doomed.

Philosophically, the move to a 3-4 doesn't make you better, either. You can switch to a 3-4 and be just as stale as a vanilla 4-3. The Bills didn't become a more dynamic defense when they went to a 3-4, neither did the Jags, Cardinals, etc.

Like offensive schemes, it's all about your mindset, how aggressive your playcalling is. The Parcells version of the 3-4 for instance relied on BIG players that lined up and beat the **** out of you. It was a 2 gap scheme. It was pretty straightforward. The coverages were fairly basic -- an almost bend-but-don't-break. There was no zone-blitz magic to it, no Troy Polamalu's coming out of nowhere. It was Lawrence Taylor outmanning anyone in front of him and destroying the other team's quarterback.

At the other end of the spectrum is the Wade Phillips version. His fronts can actually look a lot like the 4-3. In Dallas he used more of a one gap scheme that relied on quickness not size. There was more blitzing from the secondary, etc.

Don't get too caught up in 3-4/4-3. The alignment that the Falcons is running is just fine. It just needs more bite to it, ie. more effective parts. You could go to a 3-4 tomorrow and there wouldn't be any more pressure or chaos.

The vision would definitely be more of an agressive zone-blitzing 3-4. I understand that there are only so many coaches out there that have the right scheme for it. The same can be said for the 4-3, as far as GREAT scheming goes. The only thing that I'm really thinking would make it easier for us to do is that Kroy could get back down around his rookie weight and be able to be more effective off of the edge instead of having to strike gold on a 4-3 end. Not only that but we're going to have to turn around and get another one possibly the next year to replace Abe. If not, even if we do strike gold on one of those we will be right back where we were on the d-line again. 1 good DE and a play here and there from everyone else. As opposed to already possibly having those edge rushers on the team in Spoon and Nicholas.

A lighter Bierman (if that's the route chosen)won't necessarily mean we will be getting softer on the run because of the balance the 3-4 alignment can give you against the run with an ILB closer in pursuit to set a wider or shorter edge depending on the matchup with the TE. Like you said we have to have the right NT to do that. I think we might have the all around talent at the DT position that if we get 3 at a time on the field we can be serviceable until we find that piece. To me that's the only piece we are missing. When I think about how good that D made guys like Hartwell look then I'm not too worried about the next hole to open up at ILB when Peterson hangs it up. Oh and the most important hole of all. The DC. Did I mention I hate the off-season?

Edited by ru_serious
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Those are problems that come up if we switch schemes.

What is there to gain by moving to a 3-4?

I misread what you said the first time. I thought you were saying that the current staff is the problem now in the 4-3.

I think the main defensive picks over the last few years have been just as good a fit in a 3-4 as in a 4-3. Moore wouldn't be effected. Peria (another year removed form injury)as an athletic DT could do well as 3-4 end imo. I think it could possibly maximize Spoon's effectiveness.

As far as the main pieces already in place other than Abe the transition would be pretty seamless. He could still be used on obvious passing situations and possibly lengthen his career. If not I don't see him being productive as he gets older and injuries start to linger.

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