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FalconFanatic304

Why do some want a WR in the 1st round so bad?

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I fully understand we need another playmaking WR opposite Roddy White but we have much more pressing needs on the defensive side of the ball.

It is a lot easier to find a good WR in rounds 3-7 than a good DE, OLB, CB.

Look at the WRs in the first round and second round of last year draft:

Demaryius Thomas- 22 catches 283 yards 2 TDs

Dez Bryant- 45 catches 561 yards 6 TDs

Arrelious Been- 25 catches 395 yards 2 TDs

Golden Tate- 21 catches 227 yards 0 TDs

Look at some of the WRs that went from 3-7:

Jordan Shipley- 52 catches 600 yards 3 Tds

Mike Williams- 65 catches 964 yards 11 Tds

Brandon LaFell- 38 catches 468 yards 1 Tds

David Gettis- 37 catches 508 yards 3 Tds

Blair White- 36 catches 355 yards 5 Tds

David Nelson- 31 catches 353 yards 3 Tds

Emmanuel Sanders- 28 catches 376 yards 2 Tds

So my point is we can find a good WR in the 3rd Round or later such as:

Titus Young

Leneord Hankerson

Greg Little

Dwayne Harris

Darvin Adams

Randall Cobb

Ronald Johnson

Tandon Doss

Terrance Tolliver

Austin Pettis

You just cant find pass rushers as good as: Kerrigan, Houston, Bailey, Watt, and Heyward in the later rounds.

I think we def go defense in the 1st round with a DE or Rush OLB.

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I fully understand we need another playmaking WR opposite Roddy White but we have much more pressing needs on the defensive side of the ball.

It is a lot easier to find a good WR in rounds 3-7 than a good DE, OLB, CB.

Look at the WRs in the first round and second round of last year draft:

Demaryius Thomas- 22 catches 283 yards 2 TDs

Dez Bryant- 45 catches 561 yards 6 TDs

Arrelious Been- 25 catches 395 yards 2 TDs

Golden Tate- 21 catches 227 yards 0 TDs

Look at some of the WRs that went from 3-7:

Jordan Shipley- 52 catches 600 yards 3 Tds

Mike Williams- 65 catches 964 yards 11 Tds

Brandon LaFell- 38 catches 468 yards 1 Tds

David Gettis- 37 catches 508 yards 3 Tds

Blair White- 36 catches 355 yards 5 Tds

David Nelson- 31 catches 353 yards 3 Tds

Emmanuel Sanders- 28 catches 376 yards 2 Tds

So my point is we can find a good WR in the 3rd Round or later such as:

Titus Young

Leneord Hankerson

Greg Little

Dwayne Harris

Darvin Adams

Randall Cobb

Ronald Johnson

Tandon Doss

Terrance Tolliver

Austin Pettis

You just cant find pass rushers as good as: Kerrigan, Houston, Bailey, Watt, and Heyward in the later rounds.

I think we def go defense in the 1st round with a DE or Rush OLB.

100% agree.

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God I hate these threads.

So don't reply to it <_<

Sure you can't compare one draft to another, but it's not a myth that it's easier to find WR who can make an impact lower in the draft than it is to find an impact DE.

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Given the way the first round should break, with us picking at #27, getting a top DE is not realistic. The value at #27 is also a tad high for this year's TE class. I don't think we'll spend a high pick a OLB and a player like Wisconsin OT Gabe Carimi, good value at #27, is just another Sam Baker. Some on this MB like Pittsburgh WR Jon Baldwin at #27 because his value is rising with the news that Ryan Broyles and Justin Blackmon returning to school.

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WR is simply the best value at pick #27. The odds of a good DE falling to us is pretty slim and there just simply aren't any decent LBs outside of Akeem Ayers and Von Miller worth taking in the 1st round. We could probably grab an OT or a CB with our pick, but like I said earlier WR will probably be the best value.

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WR is simply the best value at pick #27. The odds of a good DE falling to us is pretty slim and there just simply aren't any decent LBs outside of Akeem Ayers and Von Miller worth taking in the 1st round. We could probably grab an OT or a CB with our pick, but like I said earlier WR will probably be the best value.

I guarantee that draft stock will change a lot between now and the draft. You are also ruling out the chance of TD trading up, which I think is likely if there is a run on DE's.

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I guarantee that draft stock will change a lot between now and the draft. You are also ruling out the chance of TD trading up, which I think is likely if there is a run on DE's.

Well, I know draft stock will definitely change from now until then and I did not rule out trading up... I'm just speaking of what's current, and as of right now we still have the #27th pick of the 1st round and the players that I discussed still have similar stocks.

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Of course it changes from one draft to another but its common sense its easier to find a good WR in the later rounds than it is to find a great DE in the later rounds. I previewed last years draft.

I will take a look at the 2009 draft

In the later rounds 3-7:

Austin Collie

Mike Wallace

Mike Thomas

Brian Hartline

Louis Murphy

Brandon Tate

Johnny Knox

Brandon Gibson

Julian Edelman

Now lets look at some DE that made an impact in rounds 3-7(stats are combine 09&10:

Michael Johnson- 5.5 sacks

Matt Shaugnessy- 11.0 sacks

Henry Melton- 2.0 sacks

Jarius Wynn- 1.5 sacks

Heck that is the only guys from the 2009 draft that even registered a sack. Half of them didnt make the team or are on the PS.

Now lets look at the DE from 2009 and 2010 taken in Rounds 1-2 and see the impact they have had:

Brian Orakpo- 19.5

Larry English- 5.0

Everette Brown- 6.0

Jason Peirre-Paul- 4.5

Derrick Morgan- 1.5- was having a good season until injured.

Carlos Dunlap- 9.5 sacks

Koa Misi- 4.5 sacks

Clay Mattews: 23.5 sacks

Granted some of them play OLB in the 3-4 but they would be DE in our 4-3.

Snelling44 do you still want to argue with me. I can go back to 2008 if you want?

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I guarantee that draft stock will change a lot between now and the draft. You are also ruling out the chance of TD trading up, which I think is likely if there is a run on DE's.

I think Dimitroff has a good chance of moving up, but I think it'll be for Julio, Ingram, or Kerrigan. We have to have an impact guy in the first round. We haven't had one since Ryan/Baker.

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Given the way the first round should break, with us picking at #27, getting a top DE is not realistic. The value at #27 is also a tad high for this year's TE class. I don't think we'll spend a high pick a OLB and a player like Wisconsin OT Gabe Carimi, good value at #27, is just another Sam Baker. Some on this MB like Pittsburgh WR Jon Baldwin at #27 because his value is rising with the news that Ryan Broyles and Justin Blackmon returning to school.

I just don't see the Falcons making a move for Baldwin. I think he's going to run a horrible 40 and with our team so concerned about character: "Scouts will have questions about his attitude and maturity. Charged with misdemeanor indecent assault, harassment and disorderly conduct in May 2009 after an incident involving a female student on campus shuttle bus."

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WR is simply the best value at pick #27. The odds of a good DE falling to us is pretty slim and there just simply aren't any decent LBs outside of Akeem Ayers and Von Miller worth taking in the 1st round. We could probably grab an OT or a CB with our pick, but like I said earlier WR will probably be the best value.

Very true. it could happen, but guys with pass rushing ability go quick. Houston, IMO, will not go any lower than #15 if he has a good combine, for example. Don't really know that we would go LB again in the first, but i see your point. CBs in first round are similar--at the point we are picking they tend to not be elite. WR, TE, G, DT are all really easy to get positions. HB is another one.

Btw, 7 of the top 10 wrs in terms of yards were first round picks.

1) Brandon Lloyd: (4th round) * Note: 8 years in league and got first over 1000 yd rec. year

2) Roddy White (1st round #27 overall--can we hit paydirt again?)

3) Reggie Wayne (1st round #30 overall)

4) Greg Jennings (2nd round #52 overall)

5)Mike Wallace (round 3 #84 overall)

6) Andre Johnson (1st round #3 overall)

7) Dwayne bowe (1st round #23 overall)

8) Larry Fitzgerald (1st round #3 overall)

9)Calvin Johnson (1st round #2 overall)

10) Santana Moss (1st round #16 overall)

Since brandon lloyd is far from a model of consistency, I think it's safe to say that the first round has the best shot to find a stud wr. Notice that the middle and late part of first round still produced 4 of the top 10 wrs. Jennings should have been a first rounder, and carried that grade. Wallace--great scouting on the steelers part

You say that we don't need a stud, just a #2 overall well let's look at 11-20

11)Steve Johnson (7th round * had 102 yds his rookie season, and 10 yds in his second)

12) Desean Jackson (2nd round #49 overall) * NOte carried first round grade, knock on him was size

13)Hakeem Nicks (1st round #29 overall)

14) Miles Austin (UDFA)

15)Marques Colston (7th round)

Both Miles Austin and Colston are outstanding examples of team development, so lower picks can work. I bring these two up, because unlike Johnson they have achieved a level of consistency in terms of production

16)Brandon Marshall (4th round) * DISCIPLINE & PERSONAL CONDUCT WERE ISSUES AT UCF

17) Jason Witten (TE, found in 3rd round)

18)Terrell Owens (3rd round)

19) Jeremy Maclin (1st round #19 overall)

20) Mike Williams (4th round #101 overall) * DISCIPLINE & PERSONAL CONDUCT WERE ISSUES AND QUIT SYRACUSE TEAM

So 2 first rounders, an early 2nd rounder were in #11-20. But also note, both Marshall and Williams were considered first to second round talents who dropped to character concerns. Scouting has improved immensely since Owens draft. Bottom line Austin and COlston were great scouting.

So as you can see of the top 20 WRs, 9 first rounders, 2 second rounders, 2 3rd rounders (one was a TE), and 3 4th rounders (of whom 2 were bad character guys) are on the list. Plus 2 7th rounders and an UDFA round out list.

So just less than half of the top 20 wrs were first round picks. Plus at least 4 who went later were rated as first round picks, but dropped due to disciplinary (2 of them) and size (1) and small college (1). So tell me again, how that the first round is not a good spot to grab a WR? Do you suddenly think that TD is going to grab discipline cases?

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I fully understand we need another playmaking WR opposite Roddy White but we have much more pressing needs on the defensive side of the ball.

It is a lot easier to find a good WR in rounds 3-7 than a good DE, OLB, CB.

Look at the WRs in the first round and second round of last year draft:

Demaryius Thomas- 22 catches 283 yards 2 TDs

Hurt. Injury concerns in draft

Dez Bryant- 45 catches 561 yards 6 TDs

Bad example. He was outstanding until he got hurt

Arrelious Been- 25 catches 395 yards 2 TDs

Golden Tate- 21 catches 227 yards 0 TDs

Benn came along, but Williams (who was a first round talent) was outstanding. Tate, i can't explain. Just didn't look very good

Look at some of the WRs that went from 3-7:

Jordan Shipley- 52 catches 600 yards 3 Tds

#3 WR flanked by Ocho Cinco and Terrell Owens

Mike Williams- 65 catches 964 yards 11 Tds

Discipline case. Would have been a first or second rounder

Brandon LaFell- 38 catches 468 yards 1 Tds

David Gettis- 37 catches 508 yards 3 Tds

Blair White- 36 catches 355 yards 5 Tds

David Nelson- 31 catches 353 yards 3 Tds

Emmanuel Sanders- 28 catches 376 yards 2 Tds

None of these players were intended to be several like Sanders and White are on teams with deep wr corpsPlus why you put Dez Bryant on list is beside me, as he is exactly the type threat that folks on here would love next to Roddy White.

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Last year was also one of the Deepest drafts in years.. moving on.

Yup. Didn't even get into that fact, but you're right. Many of those guys would have went higher in previous years. Not to keep this thread alive forever, but I am a bit puzzled why we didn't grab a wr earlier last year. Hopefully Meir is something. But even if he is, we could still use some speed and explosiveness in the rotation.

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Very true. it could happen, but guys with pass rushing ability go quick. Houston, IMO, will not go any lower than #15 if he has a good combine, for example. Don't really know that we would go LB again in the first, but i see your point. CBs in first round are similar--at the point we are picking they tend to not be elite. WR, TE, G, DT are all really easy to get positions. HB is another one.

Btw, 7 of the top 10 wrs in terms of yards were first round picks.

1) Brandon Lloyd: (4th round) * Note: 8 years in league and got first over 1000 yd rec. year

2) Roddy White (1st round #27 overall--can we hit paydirt again?)

3) Reggie Wayne (1st round #30 overall)

4) Greg Jennings (2nd round #52 overall)

5)Mike Wallace (round 3 #84 overall)

6) Andre Johnson (1st round #3 overall)

7) Dwayne bowe (1st round #23 overall)

8) Larry Fitzgerald (1st round #3 overall)

9)Calvin Johnson (1st round #2 overall)

10) Santana Moss (1st round #16 overall)

Since brandon lloyd is far from a model of consistency, I think it's safe to say that the first round has the best shot to find a stud wr. Notice that the middle and late part of first round still produced 4 of the top 10 wrs. Jennings should have been a first rounder, and carried that grade. Wallace--great scouting on the steelers part

You say that we don't need a stud, just a #2 overall well let's look at 11-20

11)Steve Johnson (7th round * had 102 yds his rookie season, and 10 yds in his second)

12) Desean Jackson (2nd round #49 overall) * NOte carried first round grade, knock on him was size

13)Hakeem Nicks (1st round #29 overall)

14) Miles Austin (UDFA)

15)Marques Colston (7th round)

Both Miles Austin and Colston are outstanding examples of team development, so lower picks can work. I bring these two up, because unlike Johnson they have achieved a level of consistency in terms of production

16)Brandon Marshall (4th round) * DISCIPLINE & PERSONAL CONDUCT WERE ISSUES AT UCF

17) Jason Witten (TE, found in 3rd round)

18)Terrell Owens (3rd round)

19) Jeremy Maclin (1st round #19 overall)

20) Mike Williams (4th round #101 overall) * DISCIPLINE & PERSONAL CONDUCT WERE ISSUES AND QUIT SYRACUSE TEAM

So 2 first rounders, an early 2nd rounder were in #11-20. But also note, both Marshall and Williams were considered first to second round talents who dropped to character concerns. Scouting has improved immensely since Owens draft. Bottom line Austin and COlston were great scouting.

So as you can see of the top 20 WRs, 9 first rounders, 2 second rounders, 2 3rd rounders (one was a TE), and 3 4th rounders (of whom 2 were bad character guys) are on the list. Plus 2 7th rounders and an UDFA round out list.

So just less than half of the top 20 wrs were first round picks. Plus at least 4 who went later were rated as first round picks, but dropped due to disciplinary (2 of them) and size (1) and small college (1). So tell me again, how that the first round is not a good spot to grab a WR? Do you suddenly think that TD is going to grab discipline cases?

I don't get your point with Marshall and Mike Williams? They got drafted later thats nobodys fault but there own. Thats how the draft works.

Also don't get your point with DeSean Jackson? He didn't go in the first because of size, thats the draft for you.

We already have a great WR in White and a good option in Jenkins.

We don't need A.J. Green, Julio Jones, or Baldwin right now we have more pressing needs on defense.

Of course if we were looking for a franchise WR to come in we would go and get one in round 1.

We just need a solid dependable WR to push Jenkins and be our #2 or #3. So therefore I think it would be better to go Defense in the 1st and go WR in round 2-3.

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Yall can make all the excuses you want. But POINT BEING IT IS EASIER TO FIND A SOLID #2 OPTION IN ROUND 3 THAN THERE IS TO FIND THE NEXT JULIUS PEPPERS, DEMARCUS WARE, JOHN ABE, JARRED ALLEN, TAMBA HALI IN ROUND 3 THAT IS ALL I AM SAYIN.

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I think Dimitroff has a good chance of moving up, but I think it'll be for Julio, Ingram, or Kerrigan. We have to have an impact guy in the first round. We haven't had one since Ryan/Baker.

I agree with Julio and Kerrigan, but no way Ingram. He's a great prospect, but RB isn't a huge need and considering we are looking for 3rd down, change of pace back, I think we can get one later in the draft. Ryan Williams in the 2nd is better value.

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I don't get your point with Marshall and Mike Williams? They got drafted later thats nobodys fault but there own. Thats how the draft works.

Also don't get your point with DeSean Jackson? He didn't go in the first because of size, thats the draft for you.

We already have a great WR in White and a good option in Jenkins.

We don't need A.J. Green, Julio Jones, or Baldwin right now we have more pressing needs on defense.

Of course if we were looking for a franchise WR to come in we would go and get one in round 1.

We just need a solid dependable WR to push Jenkins and be our #2 or #3. So therefore I think it would be better to go Defense in the 1st and go WR in round 2-3.

These are your words

I fully understand we need another playmaking WR opposite Roddy White

Playmaking WRs are not just good solid WRs. And, if you read the post, it wasn't to defend why first round talents dropped--it was to illustrate that it's not that easy to find WRs in the late rounds.

Also your original words:

"It is a lot easier to find a good WR in rounds 3-7 than a good DE, OLB, CB. "

Big difference from your current words of now you say go WR in rounds 2-3. The point of my reply, is simply this to draft a playmaking WR you generally are going to have to do so in the first round. You can get lucky in the second round on occasion. But to get great value, like a Williams or Marshall (from talent/draft ratio perspective) you have to risk that the character concerns are resolved.

Did that clear it up?

And I disagree with you that it's easy to find a playmaking cb or DE in the latter part of first round. OLB, perhaps? But that is a position that can be found in rounds 3 through 6. And, signing a vet FA in any of these positions tends to yield far greater returns early on--critical on a team on the rise. We are not rebuilding.

Bottom line, our wr corps is adequate, but lacks explosiveness and consistency outside of Roddy White--and i think many posters and analysts share that opinion with me.

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Yall can make all the excuses you want. But POINT BEING IT IS EASIER TO FIND A SOLID #2 OPTION IN ROUND 3 THAN THERE IS TO FIND THE NEXT JULIUS PEPPERS, DEMARCUS WARE, JOHN ABE, JARRED ALLEN, TAMBA HALI IN ROUND 3 THAT IS ALL I AM SAYIN.

We have to remember that we haven't had a play over 50 yds and we were the 2nd worst team behind the Panthers in 20+ yrd plays. We were also at the bottom of the league in YAC. Our Offense needs work.

You talked about finding these next superstar guys like Peppers or Ware, but for every one of those guys, its 5 or 6 other guys who have done very little in the league. We don't need a another rookie DE. We need somebody who is proven.

You also have to consider the fact that it will probably be much easier to find a very good WR in the late 1st as opposed to a DE.

The best scenario in my eyes is to address DE in FA and draft a playmaking weapon on offense with our first pick.

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If we were looking for a number 1 type receiver, then I agree we should look that way in the first, but considering we need a number 2 receiver and that we are still a run first offense, then I think we can pick up a good WR in rounds 2-4. The only way I think we go WR first is if a great talent like Julio is there, or if we pick up a DE in FA.

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If we were looking for a number 1 type receiver, then I agree we should look that way in the first, but considering we need a number 2 receiver and that we are still a run first offense, then I think we can pick up a good WR in rounds 2-4. The only way I think we go WR first is if a great talent like Julio is there, or if we pick up a DE in FA.

Agree 100% thats all I am trying to get across.

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Yall can make all the excuses you want. But POINT BEING IT IS EASIER TO FIND A SOLID #2 OPTION IN ROUND 3 THAN THERE IS TO FIND THE NEXT JULIUS PEPPERS, DEMARCUS WARE, JOHN ABE, JARRED ALLEN, TAMBA HALI IN ROUND 3 THAT IS ALL I AM SAYIN.

Why not just sign a Hali? Or a Johnson? Or a kiawanuka (MSP?)? And just how many of those DEs (other than allen who was a great find) would be available at the #27 overall?

Hali: #20 overall (struggled with consistency)

Abraham: #13 overall; cost us a #29 overall to get a pis sed off abe from the NYJ who were gonna lose him

Peppers: #2 overall

Ware: #11 overall.

So all of your examples would require us to put up a heckuva trade package to acquire the type of DEs that you are saying that you can't find unless you use the #27 overall pick on a DE. Think about what you are arguing. You are saying at the #27 position we can get a playmaking DE, yet 4 of the 5 examples you listed ranged being drafted in the #2 overall spot to the #20 overall pick. 3 of your examples were top 15 picks and one of those was traded again for a #29 overall because he didn't fit a 34 defense!

And then you argue in one vein that we can get a playmaking wr in rounds 3-7, but then change to ok "we need to get a playmaking wr in round 2," then you argue that the #27 overall does not stand out as the "necessary spot to grab a playmaking wr" yet multiple examples of the current top 20 wrs (including Roddy White who went #27 overall) were plucked in our position.

Your arguments are seriously flawed

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First off, Free Agency hasn't even happened. Holes will be filled then as well as draft stocks will be rising with the Combine and Pro Days. We will be in prime position for a DE to fall to us. There are too many with first round talent for all of them to be gone. Bowers, Jordan, Quinn, Smith, Kerrigan, Bailey, Houston, Heyward and Clayborn.

If all 9 are miraculously gone, that means that nobody signed a FA DE and serious talent is available at another position, most likely corner since they have the next most talent: Peterson, Amukamara, Harris, Williams, Burton, Smith, Dowling.

I don't think we NEED to take a WR in the first. But I wouldn't be mad if we did. I would rather see us take Murray to give us a better version of Bush.

But I would like to see us get a FA DE to give us an immediate spark and allow us to solve our explosion issues on offense. If we could make our first 3 picks offense, that would be really great. We need another explosive WR, an explosive RB, and a TE to groom.

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