Jump to content

Ryan is Top 10 QB


helmsman
 Share

Recommended Posts

I agree theres only two elite, but what has Ryan or Flacco done to be above Romo? Or what has Rodgers done?

If I made your list, I would put pretty much all of those guys in the same tier and Vick, over a career would be on the 5th or 6th. For this year alone, Freeman would be a;ongside Rodgers, Romo Ryam etc. but one year doesn't really prove anything.

\

Please guys, I have stated over and over again that his ENTIRE THREAD IS ONLY TALLIED FOR THIS SEASON ALONE. NO OTHER SEASON, PRE, REGULAR, or POST HAS BEEN COUNTED OR EVEN CONSIDERED. THIS THREAD APPLIES ONLY TO WEEK 1 THRU WEEK 17 of the 2010 REGULAR SEASON.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 77
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

If your going to include Vick's running stats with his passing, and lump his running touchdowns with his passing, you absolutely have to include his running turnovers with his passing turnovers.

The only reason i say this i because i think that the fumbles are a huge weakness for him. Just as much as his indecision and inability to read blitzes and throw the ball hot, his method for carrying the ball is a flaw. I also happen to believe after watching him all those years in Atlanta that the way that he extends his arms while making moves with the ball is part of his effort to keep his balance. He is moving so fast and changing directions so quickly that he might have to leave the vulnerable ball out there for grabs while he maintains his balance.

If that where not true then i just dont understand why with all the coaching he has received on how to carry the ball by now, would he still be just dangling that ball out there so precariously time and time again.

Its all part of the package deal you get with Vick.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree theres only two elite, but what has Ryan or Flacco done to be above Romo? Or what has Rodgers done?

If I made your list, I would put pretty much all of those guys in the same tier and Vick, over a career would be on the 5th or 6th. For this year alone, Freeman would be a;ongside Rodgers, Romo Ryam etc. but one year doesn't really prove anything.

Within the criteria I'd set out, Romo's numbers are very comparable to Ryan and Flacco, however he has plateaued somewhat, played only six games this year and has a history of weak playoff performance, while Ryan and Flacco have yet to find their ceiling. Rodgers has consecutive seasons of 100+ passer ratings and brings a running component that's 2nd only to Vick.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Call me old-fashioned, but I don't think you're "elite" until you've tasted the champagne in February. Lot of names I'd put in the mix before Carson Palmer. Rodgers has a QB rating 10 points higher than Matt Ryan, despite losing Ryan Grant in week one and Jermichael Finlay a few weeks later, so to rank him behind Ryan and Flacco seems out of whack. If I were rating it would go some thing like this based on current, past and next seasons expectations:

Elite: Brady and Peyton

2nd Tier: Rivers, Brees and Rodgers

3rd Tier: Roethlisberger, Ryan, Flacco and Vick

4th Tier: Romo, Cassel, Schaub and Eli

5th Tier: Cutler, Freeman, Sanchez, Orton

Freeman and Ryan had pretty similar seasons, and he is in your bottom tier while Ryan is in your mid-tier?

Cmp 357 291

Att 571 474

Cmp% 62.5 61.4

Yds 3705 3451

TD 28 25

TD% 4.9 5.3

Int 9 6

Int% 1.6 1.3

Lng 46 64

Y/A 6.5 7.3

AY/A 6.8 7.8

Y/C 10.4 11.9

Y/G 231.6 215.7

Rate 91 95.9

Age 25 22

(Let me guess, you're going to defer to team records?)

Meanwhile Brees isn't elite even though he's thrown for over 4,000 yards 5 or 6 years in a row. (once over 5,000 yards) He regularly has a season rating in the mid 90s...twice over 100. He regularly completes upper 60 percent of his passes (one year topping 70 percent) He has a ring and is a model of consistency. His name easily goes next to Manning and Brady in these conversations.

Brady has never hit 5,000 yards. He's typically in the upper 3,000 lower 4,000 range. He's never touched 70 percent, but is consistenly in the mid 60s. But he does have a ton of rings.

Manning is always throwing for 4,000 yards...has never touched 5,000. Never touched 70 percent but is always upper 60s.

All three of them typically throw TDs in the upper 20s to lower 30s. (Brady hit 50 once). And their INT% is typically about the same (about 2).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ryan isn't elite as yet ELITE is a word that has bandied around to much.His numbers this year may match other top QB's in the league but for me Elite is a word that should be attached to a QB that has been consistently putting up good numbers over his whole career and to me Ryan just hasn't been around long enough to be thrown in the elite class of QB.He is no where near Brady or P.Manning purely because he doesn't own a Ring and hasn't won enough big play-off games as yet.

On the positive side Ryan has taken a huge step this year and as mentioned the arrow is defintely pointing up with him so maybe in another 2-3 seasons if he keeps developing at the same rate keeps winning on a consistent basis and throw in play-off wins and maybe a Ring then he's definitely put him in that ELITE class but until then guys I think not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Freeman and Ryan had pretty similar seasons, and he is in your bottom tier while Ryan is in your mid-tier?

Cmp 357 291

Att 571 474

Cmp% 62.5 61.4

Yds 3705 3451

TD 28 25

TD% 4.9 5.3

Int 9 6

Int% 1.6 1.3

Lng 46 64

Y/A 6.5 7.3

AY/A 6.8 7.8

Y/C 10.4 11.9

Y/G 231.6 215.7

Rate 91 95.9

Age 25 22

(Let me guess, you're going to defer to team records?)

Meanwhile Brees isn't elite even though he's thrown for over 4,000 yards 5 or 6 years in a row. (once over 5,000 yards) He regularly has a season rating in the mid 90s...twice over 100. He regularly completes upper 60 percent of his passes (one year topping 70 percent) He has a ring and is a model of consistency. His name easily goes next to Manning and Brady in these conversations.

Brady has never hit 5,000 yards. He's typically in the upper 3,000 lower 4,000 range. He's never touched 70 percent, but is consistenly in the mid 60s. But he does have a ton of rings.

Manning is always throwing for 4,000 yards...has never touched 5,000. Never touched 70 percent but is always upper 60s.

All three of them typically throw TDs in the upper 20s to lower 30s. (Brady hit 50 once). And their INT% is typically about the same (about 2).

Elite means best and nobody is better than Brady or Manning. Brees is closer to Rivers and Rodgers than Tom and Peyton. Freeman was solid this year, but Ryan is in the playoffs, 2 times in 3 seasons. In Freeman's 2 seasons, he's .500

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would say the top 10 QBs in the NFL are:

1. Brady

2. P. Manning

3. Rivers

4. Vick

5. Brees

6. Rodgers

7. Roethlisberger

8. Ryan

9. Schaub

10. Romo (when healthy)

Vick really are you serious after 7-8 games and because he now is standing in the pocket and going through progressions Vick is elite.C'mon please.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Within the criteria I'd set out, Romo's numbers are very comparable to Ryan and Flacco, however he has plateaued somewhat, played only six games this year and has a history of weak playoff performance, while Ryan and Flacco have yet to find their ceiling. Rodgers has consecutive seasons of 100+ passer ratings and brings a running component that's 2nd only to Vick.

I just don't see where he has plateued, Last year was his best over-all year ( 26 TD's,4483 yards 97 rating)' and since he was injured this year, it's a wash. even at that he completed 69% of his passes for 11 TD's and a 94 rating. I doubt Romo has hit a ceiling, that's for sure.

People tend to forget he has onlt started 55 games and won 38 of them. and has 118 TD's in 55 games.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just don't see where he has plateued, Last year was his best over-all year ( 26 TD's,4483 yards 97 rating)' and since he was injured this year, it's a wash. even at that he completed 69% of his passes for 11 TD's and a 94 rating. I doubt Romo has hit a ceiling, that's for sure.

People tend to forget he has onlt started 55 games and won 38 of them.

I agree - Tony has not reached a plateau. He is a dynamic and competitive player with great talent.

I think most people diss him because of the inordinate amount of attention the Cowboys generally get in the media (before Vick took all your media glory).

Romo is a top notch QB - and he's still climbing. I also believe that with the right coaching staff - and a few players stepping up as leaders in the locker room - he'll get you where you want to go eventually.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just don't see where he has plateued, Last year was his best over-all year ( 26 TD's,4483 yards 97 rating)' and since he was injured this year, it's a wash. even at that he completed 69% of his passes for 11 TD's and a 94 rating. I doubt Romo has hit a ceiling, that's for sure.

People tend to forget he has onlt started 55 games and won 38 of them. and has 118 TD's in 55 games.

I agree - Tony has not reached a plateau. He is a dynamic and competitive player with great talent.

I think most people diss him because of the inordinate amount of attention the Cowboys generally get in the media (before Vick took all your media glory).

Romo is a top notch QB - and he's still climbing. I also believe that with the right coaching staff - and a few players stepping up as leaders in the locker room - he'll get you where you want to go eventually.

When this topic came up, I didn't think the original poster had taken into consideration all of the current crop of QB's, so I made my own list with the thought that recent past and projected near future would be part of the determination of rankings. I don't share your enthusiasm for Tony. He is productive, but not a big game winner and his 1-5 season in 2010 weighs heavily against him. At 30, a full 5 years older than Matt Ryan, I see good numbers for his immediate future, but I don't see the same kind of success for his team. Vick is probably ranked too high, but he's gonna get MVP votes this year and how do you ignore that. With Ryan and Flacco, I see consistent success, playoff appearances and a steady progression to improvement.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

no freeman???

Freeman is my number 12 lol with Flacco at 11. He will rise up on the lists but it was one great year so i'm kinda iffy to put him higher. Cassell is another guy who has gone up a lot on my list. And even Orton. People forget about him since getting benched for Tebow but he still put up 20 TD and 9 INT on the year which is pretty good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When this topic came up, I didn't think the original poster had taken into consideration all of the current crop of QB's, so I made my own list with the thought that recent past and projected near future would be part of the determination of rankings. I don't share your enthusiasm for Tony. He is productive, but not a big game winner and his 1-5 season in 2010 weighs heavily against him. At 30, a full 5 years older than Matt Ryan, I see good numbers for his immediate future, but I don't see the same kind of success for his team. Vick is probably ranked too high, but he's gonna get MVP votes this year and how do you ignore that. With Ryan and Flacco, I see consistent success, playoff appearances and a steady progression to improvement.

Tony has won big games, its that people change the meaning after he wins them. ;) Just last year, beating Philly with the NFCE lead on the line in the last game of the season and then having to play them the very next week in the playoffs and winning. Beating NO when they were undefeated last year was a big game. At any rate, he did not win those games on his own or lose the ones on his own, but his team has won some big games.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Elite means best and nobody is better than Brady or Manning. Brees is closer to Rivers and Rodgers than Tom and Peyton. Freeman was solid this year, but Ryan is in the playoffs, 2 times in 3 seasons. In Freeman's 2 seasons, he's .500

Best implies one. Yet you have two on your list. There is room for a third. And that is Brees. He's as good as both Brady and Manning.

And I figured someone would use a team state to put Ryan above Freeman. In that case, Flaco is better than Manning. He was able to get his team to 12-4 while Manning could only muster 10-6. Heck, even Sanchez is better than Manning by your logic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK. OK. I am back and what a turn my lowly post has taken.

I do not think at this point I can swing the Vick nay-sayers so I will leave that one alone. Based on this season alone however, Vick has been more valuable at his posistion than anyothers I listed.

Freeman and Cassal--- I am sorry. I was not trying to break down the entire leauge and I wanted to limit my focus on the big names that recieve the most media attention. Cassal has had a very good season, but I would not put him above 7 on the list regardless.

Elite, well elite sounds better in a title then very good. If you wanna talk elites, you got 3-4 with a fifth creeping in. Manning, Brady, Rivers, Brees, and if next season pans out anything like this one has, Vick. Also, if Ryan or Flacco win the superbowl their stock could rise to the rank of elite as well.

Its the NFL guys, there are a lot of REALLY good quarterbacks. I only made this post because I wanted people to see the numbers and compare. In doiong so, they would see Matt Ryan has put up the same numbers as his "elite" counterparts. I am not the one who decides eliteness, ESPN does. I hear talk of Sanchez being elite until he got exposed last month and couldnt score a touchdown.

The pundits want 32 elite QBs when in reality I see 2 incredible QB's and 3 elite Qbs with another 5 Qbs at the very good level and knocking on the elite doorstep.

There CAN be 10 elite QB's if you factor in multiple seasons. I stuck to this one season. My list also was mislabeled, not all the QB's on that list I consider elite. I consider Sanchez to be overrated but he made the list purely from a media attention standpoint.

SO, My list does need two QB's added. Cassel and Freeman. However, this only shifts around the middle ranks, dropping down Palmer, Sanchez, and E. Manning and letting those guys slide in somewhere in between. My top five remain unchanged.

1. Vick

2. Rivers

3. Manning P.

Tied for fourth with nods able to go anyway: Rodgers, Flacco, Ryan

the rest is history.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK. OK. I am back and what a turn my lowly post has taken.

I do not think at this point I can swing the Vick nay-sayers so I will leave that one alone. Based on this season alone however, Vick has been more valuable at his posistion than anyothers I listed.

Freeman and Cassal--- I am sorry. I was not trying to break down the entire leauge and I wanted to limit my focus on the big names that recieve the most media attention. Cassal has had a very good season, but I would not put him above 7 on the list regardless.

Elite, well elite sounds better in a title then very good. If you wanna talk elites, you got 3-4 with a fifth creeping in. Manning, Brady, Rivers, Brees, and if next season pans out anything like this one has, Vick. Also, if Ryan or Flacco win the superbowl their stock could rise to the rank of elite as well.

Its the NFL guys, there are a lot of REALLY good quarterbacks. I only made this post because I wanted people to see the numbers and compare. In doiong so, they would see Matt Ryan has put up the same numbers as his "elite" counterparts. I am not the one who decides eliteness, ESPN does. I hear talk of Sanchez being elite until he got exposed last month and couldnt score a touchdown.

The pundits want 32 elite QBs when in reality I see 2 incredible QB's and 3 elite Qbs with another 5 Qbs at the very good level and knocking on the elite doorstep.

There CAN be 10 elite QB's if you factor in multiple seasons. I stuck to this one season. My list also was mislabeled, not all the QB's on that list I consider elite. I consider Sanchez to be overrated but he made the list purely from a media attention standpoint.

SO, My list does need two QB's added. Cassel and Freeman. However, this only shifts around the middle ranks, dropping down Palmer, Sanchez, and E. Manning and letting those guys slide in somewhere in between. My top five remain unchanged.

1. Vick

2. Rivers

3. Manning P.

Tied for fourth with nods able to go anyway: Rodgers, Flacco, Ryan

the rest is history.

Don't understand how a QB that didn't win enough games to qualify for the playoffs can be number one. Vick won 8 games this year, he cost his team a first round bye by losing to Washington and Minn. Those aren't aberrations- he's won more than 8 games once in 10 years and cost the falcons playoff spots in 05 and 06 by losing to horrible teams. He can be spectacular, but he also makes too many mistakes to be number one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tony has won big games, its that people change the meaning after he wins them. ;) Just last year, beating Philly with the NFCE lead on the line in the last game of the season and then having to play them the very next week in the playoffs and winning. Beating NO when they were undefeated last year was a big game. At any rate, he did not win those games on his own or lose the ones on his own, but his team has won some big games.

He beat Philly 3 times in '09 after the train wreck against the Eagles at the end of '08. Some of his worst games in '09 were divisional match ups. Here's another way to look at it:

QB's who can take your team on their backs for a season

-Tom and Peyton

QB's who can lead your team to wins they have no business winning

-Rivers, Rodgers and Brees

QB's who get consistent winning results and rarely hurt the team with errors

-Ryan, Flacco, Roethlisberger and for 2010, Vick

Q's who can light it up, but struggle through bad games and mental mistakes

-Romo, Cassel, Cutler etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...