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while the discussion about black boys is still "hot"


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When I worked as a contractor I was the only white guy on the staff for a while, all the rest were black men and women. Everyone of those people thought I was gay because I was in my 30's and had no kids. :P But even though they thought I was gay, they still treated me great. :lol:

Can somebody cue up the picture of Grandpa Simpson walking in the house putting on the hat, taking off the hat and walking out! Why in the h ell would a bunch of people think your a mangler? :D

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he can lay you down ,but im gonna beat it up!

hey the trend didnt start with horrible music but it doesnt help

that hip hop is saying what they do!

Music has been blamed for bad behavior by the latter generations since the inception of rock n' roll. This line of reasoning trying to blame hip hop is no different. I've heard racy lyrics in just about every genre of American music.

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Allow me to explain my thoughts. While it is true that poor black girls would proportionately take advantage of these grants more than any other group, any race could take advantage of the offer. Without the burdens of providing for many ******* children (without the help of the many different fathers), these young women can instead focus on advancing their own careers and becoming economic contributors.

Once these women become stable and no longer depend on under-educated wannabe thugs (or the nanny state) to support them, they then can decide if they want to find a suitable spouse, reverse the tubilization, and have a stable family. Poverty and crime will unquestionably drop that will pay huge economic dividends for generations.

You can not tell me this would not be a positive policy for blacks and the disadvantaged. Smaller, 2 parent families are exactly the cure for many of todays problems that noone seems to have the guts to address. Some studies have shown that China`s one child policy is a major reason for their economic success. How much longer will it be before we are forced to take similar steps?

Where on stormfront did you copy and paste this at?

1. Men are the direct targets.

Why?

The leaders of the home

The provider

The final level of decision making

So if take those things away in any community, you have a major issue or in America's case, a catastrophe.

Then you have to ask major questions? Why are Blacks singled out in America and other Euro-centric cultures? Why is there so many grants for women, but so few for men? Why are men discriminated v. in this society on a colorize tense than any other? Then you start your research. You find a lot when you do that. Good info, misinfo, purposely incorrect info. A lot should be discovered. I will leave it at that because 97% of your post is trash. Your lack of logic is honestly mind-blowing. It's clear you were saying the wrong direction would lead to the right direction as the right direction doesn't make sense in your eyes. What the **** is tubilization, are you making up words. Then your dumbas* started talking about population reduction. Please, don't post again. Your not welcome here and I don't want to see you in here again.

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I agree with you on almost all accounts. Its not a race thing, but it is to a point a racial cultural thing....There is nothing is the psyche or make-up of a black guy to him any more likely to avoid the responsibility and\or demands of fatherhood anymore than a white guy, but there are more cultural aspects that make it more permissible in the black community. As evidenced by 80% of black children born to single mothers. I do blame the so called Hip Hop culture. I think it has aggrandized "playas" to such a degree as this is how most young boys who subscribe to this type mentality see as the only way a woman should be treated..used and move on to the next. I don't know what the **** the girls are thinking.

Hip Hop is global, it's impossible to put everything on something so meager for a %. Clearly this is one of those things I spoke to you about and said even I can't comment or speak for every individual but hip hop which might be major in your mind is small in the grand scheme of things. Majority of Americans are born to single mothers. You can be engaged, in a serious relationship, or she went to a sperm bank and you would count as a single mother. Let's not overstep the boundaries.

Society plays a major part in this. If you don't believe society doesn't play a part, go to Nigeria, go to England, go to Luxembourg, society of your proposed culture plays a part in us all. Systematic actions play a part. The toughness of getting a job, a loan, properly education to the attention you need, because someone hates your skin, feels you should be poor, or going by a perception that is usually false. Systematic actions or also know as underlining worldly issues.

"playas" I don't even know how to respond to this. Sometimes you should really think or really try to acquire information before you write your thoughts out on paper but I know you don't mean any ill will by it, just naive. You have to remember that Blacks don't run the media, the same people who run the media were showing mistral shows 80 years earlier and don't think gangster rap isn't a part of that hooliganism. There is nothing good about gangster rap, not saying I've never listen to it myself but there is nothing good about it. Believe me, 70% of males no matter what they look like are far from being "playas" lol.

There is issues but mainly major systematic issues as this is the foundation of capitalism. Being from another culture I see vast differences and it will take a mentality change that didn't come from Hip Hop, the fight for Civil Rights, etc, but much deeper from my studies. It's a long process, just coming up with an issue and giving an opinion is like trying to fix a messed up car with duck tape and minor auto-work. It's not going to work. To be honest, a lot is on you white guys, when your truly able to come together a dead racism in every structure or nothing will change and with a couple of posters I seen in this thread, you have a lot of work ahead of you. The world is changing and the only thing that gets passed up is the past. You would be surprise who powerful an individual is but as long as you do the status qua, you are a prisoner of your own society.

Edited by #1 pick
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Music has been blamed for bad behavior by the latter generations since the inception of rock n' roll. This line of reasoning trying to blame hip hop is no different. I've heard racy lyrics in just about every genre of American music.

I think people think life is a symptom of music when it is really the other waty around. People don't do #### because of music, but people write music about what they do, or want to do.

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I think people think life is a symptom of music when it is really the other waty around. People don't do #### because of music, but people write music about what they do, or want to do.

I think some misunderstood what I meant, it may have been my fault for not being clearer, but I was not referring to only hip hop music. I said the hip hop culture. A pretty good article I read on this discussed the derogatory and misogynistic messages, visuals, and overtones being seared into the conciseness of young black boys and girls. Criminal behavior is aggrandized, violence and denigration of women is seen as normal and acceptable behavior.

I'm not arguing as the old man screaming "dem damned kids and their devil music" are the cause of all the ills of the black community, but if anyone is seriously contending that 30 years of a culture (meaning the hip-hop culture) has not taken a very measurable toll and in this case I believe a very negative toll on an entire generation of black people I think that person should pull his head out the sand and just take a look around.

Found the article, while it discussing the the misogynist aspect of hip hop as a culture (not just in music) other arguments apply.

What hip-hop has done to Black women

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I think some misunderstood what I meant, it may have been my fault for not being clearer, but I was not referring to only hip hop music. I said the hip hop culture. A pretty good article I read on this discussed the derogatory and misogynistic messages, visuals, and overtones being seared into the conciseness of young black boys and girls. Criminal behavior is aggrandized, violence and denigration of women is seen as normal and acceptable behavior.

I'm not arguing as the old man screaming "dem damned kids and their devil music" are the cause of all the ills of the black community, but if anyone is seriously contending that 30 years of a culture (meaning the hip-hop culture) has not taken a very measurable toll and in this case I believe a very negative toll on an entire generation of black people I think that person should pull his head out the sand and just take a look around.

Found the article, while it discussing the the misogynist aspect of hip hop as a culture (not just in music) other arguments apply.

What hip-hop has done to Black women

I definitely got what you meant by hip hop culture, but the thing of it is, only the negative aspect of hip hop culture is being thrown to the forefront and that I can understand. The bad part of things will always stand out, however, there are parts of hip hop culture (mostly underground hip hop) that are positive.

Personally, I can't stand today's mainstream hip hop. It says absolutely nothing. I would suggest that if you want to place the blame soley on hip hop culture, then blame the record companies for gravitating towards what's popular and not positive. It's all about the money for them. It's not like they care about the youth. There are many underground groups out there that don't down Black women and keep it relatively tame, but again, you'll never hear about those groups because their audiences are small and they won't sell nationally. Controversy sells. I grew up in the era of Progressive/Jazz hip hop which was relatively popular back in the 90's, but when gangsta rap took off it got thrown to the side because young, impressionable kids wanted to be something they were not...gangstas.

I agree that hip hop culture isn't all roses, but it's not all negative. It's just that you are seeing one side of it and, unfortunately, it's mainstream garbage.

(If I rambled, pardon me. I'm in a NyQuil haze right now. Dang flu.)

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the issue I'd like to discuss comes from a discussion I had today with a black lady, basically about the waywardness of so mamy black boys, in particular those who stomped to death the kid in Douglas County.

I argued that the root of such problems is that their fathers aren't around/are not in their lives.

She countered and said, basically, that "you all need to be mentoring these boys." "you all" meaning me personally and other black men.

Mentoring is good. Great even. But I believe that men cannot and must not vacate their responsibility to raise their children/their sons. Let's not talk about the cases where the father is dead. Let's not even talk about the cases where the father is imprisoned. Let's talk about the real cases where the father is alive and well but is NOT actively involved in his son's life. He and the mother never got married or they are divorced, but he is absent from the boy's life and upbringing or at the most very marginally so.

If he will not raise his son, then whose responsibility is it to raise the boy? Is it the responsibility of some other man, with his own family, own life, to come in and raise another able-bodied man's son?

I didn't continue my conversation with the woman because it was not the right time or place.

But I very much objected to her belief that the burden of raising/mentoring another man's son falls on me.

A woman must do what she can to make sure her son is raised right when the dad won't do it, such as send him to boot camp, to some military school, to a strong male relative to live with. But I don't think she should presume that some stranger or good, kind-hearted soul out of the general populace has to do it.

Before I am flamed, let me say: I have mentored before. I have friends who mentor. I admire all that!

But we have got to get the MEN with boys not raising their own boys to be a MAN and do it! Alas, many don't even know how.

Thoughts please?

Thanks!

J

I can't say these arguments don't have merit but I do think the bad issues in black culture is sometimes overstressed and the good is almost never acknowledged. No other culture/race blames their male figures more than the black and no other is likewise scrutinized by all other races. I know plenty of black fathers who do right (including myself) by their children and plenty that do just as wrong in other cultures/races. Why is this so?

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I can't say these arguments don't have merit but I do think the bad issues in black culture is sometimes overstressed and the good is almost never acknowledged. No other culture/race blames their male figures more than the black and no other is likewise scrutinized by all other races. I know plenty of black fathers who do right (including myself) by their children and plenty that do just as wrong in other cultures/races. Why is this so?

valid point realbird. however, and not to be condescending, patronizing or anything: the stats and the ills facing us are staggering. 70%/80% (whatever it is) babies born to unwed mothers. the incarceration/college ratio. the sad trends (pants on the ground), drop out rates,

But I agree with you. I'd love to hear, read more about the good/success stories.

But, in my "studies" a New York senator decades ago warned of impending doom arising from a steady tide of black children born to unweb mothers. Nobody listened to him because he was white.

We need men to bring up their boys, and to resolve to be there for the boy BEFORE he is even born. That's pretty much what we're saying here. At least I think so.

Joe :lol:

P.S. As far as "blaming" goes, heck, there have been times when I wanted to "blame" the black music from the 70s. "Me and Mrs. Jones." "If loving you is wrong, I don't want to be right." "Trying to love two." "I Wish that you could be mine." "Outside Woman" ALL THESE **** FREAKING SONGS PROMOTE INFIDELITY. Certainly not commitment. I could go on and on.

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I can't say these arguments don't have merit but I do think the bad issues in black culture is sometimes overstressed and the good is almost never acknowledged. No other culture/race blames their male figures more than the black and no other is likewise scrutinized by all other races. I know plenty of black fathers who do right (including myself) by their children and plenty that do just as wrong in other cultures/races. Why is this so?

I am asking this respectfully because maybe I don't understand your point, but

What are black male figures being blamed for unfairly? Not supporting their kids?

I agree that many men--no matter what race--desert their kids, but I don't see that as a Black male problem.

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I am asking this respectfully because maybe I don't understand your point, but

What are black male figures being blamed for unfairly? Not supporting their kids?

I agree that many men--no matter what race--desert their kids, but I don't see that as a Black male problem.

Quite a bit....leaving your kids, not holding a job for long, being somewhat thuggish. Take your pick! The black man is scrutinized so much that I almost feel like I expect to get a medal for doing what is natural. People, in general, always look at me in disbelief when I tell them that I actually raise my kids. You hardly ever hear anyone complaining about white men that leave their kids or Latinos that can't work or be depended upon.

Look, the point of this conversation was how BLACK fathers are not doing the job so others have to take up the slack. All I am saying is that there are plenty of black fathers that do right...we don't need a medal but, please stop the negative assumptions. That's all.....

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Quite a bit....leaving your kids, not holding a job for long, being somewhat thuggish. Take your pick! The black man is scrutinized so much that I almost feel like I expect to get a medal for doing what is natural. People, in general, always look at me in disbelief when I tell them that I actually raise my kids. You hardly ever hear anyone complaining about white men that leave their kids or Latinos that can't work or be depended upon.

Look, the point of this conversation was how BLACK fathers are not doing the job so others have to take up the slack. All I am saying is that there are plenty of black fathers that do right...we don't need a medal but, please stop the negative assumptions. That's all.....

No doubt that many black fathers are doing what they are supposed to, but the sad fact is many more are not. Some numbers to ponder:

  • 85% of black children do not live in a home with their fathers.
  • Only 15-20% of black children born today will grow up with 2 parents until age 16.
  • Over 80% of long-term child poverty occurs in broken or never-married homes.
  • 70% of African-American boys in the criminal justice system come from single-parent homes.

So the scrutiny for many is not based simply on negative assumptions, it is unfortunately what it is....a break down of the black family unit and this trend is worth examining closely.

These numbers are from 2005, do you think things have gotten better or continued their downward spiral since that time?

A Portrait of the Black Family

Edited by silentbob1272
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Single mother with 3 kids working a minimum wage job, after all entitlement programs, etc. has just as much disposable income as a household with 3 kids making $60,000. Just heard that figure on the radio today.

Seems like that really does encourage women to get pregnant repeatedly. As for fathers, I don't know--I didn't meet mine until I was 20. Granted Mom was married until I was 2 and a half but Dad was Dad or not really so much...

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Quite a bit....leaving your kids, not holding a job for long, being somewhat thuggish. Take your pick! The black man is scrutinized so much that I almost feel like I expect to get a medal for doing what is natural. People, in general, always look at me in disbelief when I tell them that I actually raise my kids. You hardly ever hear anyone complaining about white men that leave their kids or Latinos that can't work or be depended upon.

Look, the point of this conversation was how BLACK fathers are not doing the job so others have to take up the slack. All I am saying is that there are plenty of black fathers that do right...we don't need a medal but, please stop the negative assumptions. That's all.....

RealBird, I think I get what you're saying. There are loads and loads, thousands upon thousands of black men heading their families - strong families - being real mean and being outstanding citizens. Black men. Yes! And this is normal, or what it is supposed to be.

Realbird, still, there are good, decent black men out there in the thousands (I don't know to what degree) that

don't raise their own children. I know because I know some like that. Not bad guys by any means. Working, successful - no drugs. They just had children, see the kids a few times a year, and that's it. So, we're talking about these men as well. The kids may grow up to be perfectly fine. Yet it should not be that way. A boy needs his father. I just believe that.

J

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