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while the discussion about black boys is still "hot"


Isosceles
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the issue I'd like to discuss comes from a discussion I had today with a black lady, basically about the waywardness of so mamy black boys, in particular those who stomped to death the kid in Douglas County.

I argued that the root of such problems is that their fathers aren't around/are not in their lives.

She countered and said, basically, that "you all need to be mentoring these boys." "you all" meaning me personally and other black men.

Mentoring is good. Great even. But I believe that men cannot and must not vacate their responsibility to raise their children/their sons. Let's not talk about the cases where the father is dead. Let's not even talk about the cases where the father is imprisoned. Let's talk about the real cases where the father is alive and well but is NOT actively involved in his son's life. He and the mother never got married or they are divorced, but he is absent from the boy's life and upbringing or at the most very marginally so.

If he will not raise his son, then whose responsibility is it to raise the boy? Is it the responsibility of some other man, with his own family, own life, to come in and raise another able-bodied man's son?

I didn't continue my conversation with the woman because it was not the right time or place.

But I very much objected to her belief that the burden of raising/mentoring another man's son falls on me.

A woman must do what she can to make sure her son is raised right when the dad won't do it, such as send him to boot camp, to some military school, to a strong male relative to live with. But I don't think she should presume that some stranger or good, kind-hearted soul out of the general populace has to do it.

Before I am flamed, let me say: I have mentored before. I have friends who mentor. I admire all that!

But we have got to get the MEN with boys not raising their own boys to be a MAN and do it! Alas, many don't even know how.

Thoughts please?

Thanks!

J

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I've worked in group homes for wayward boys for a few years in the past. I'm also mentoring my nephew right now because his sperm donor of a father is a POS. I'm bound and determined that he's not going to go the way of the wayward-less. Thanks to his me and his mom so far he's a highly-intelligent, proper-speaking, well-mannered and thoughful young man.

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the issue I'd like to discuss comes from a discussion I had today with a black lady, basically about the waywardness of so mamy black boys, in particular those who stomped to death the kid in Douglas County.

I argued that the root of such problems is that their fathers aren't around/are not in their lives.

She countered and said, basically, that "you all need to be mentoring these boys." "you all" meaning me personally and other black men.

Mentoring is good. Great even. But I believe that men cannot and must not vacate their responsibility to raise their children/their sons. Let's not talk about the cases where the father is dead. Let's not even talk about the cases where the father is imprisoned. Let's talk about the real cases where the father is alive and well but is NOT actively involved in his son's life. He and the mother never got married or they are divorced, but he is absent from the boy's life and upbringing or at the most very marginally so.

If he will not raise his son, then whose responsibility is it to raise the boy? Is it the responsibility of some other man, with his own family, own life, to come in and raise another able-bodied man's son?

I didn't continue my conversation with the woman because it was not the right time or place.

But I very much objected to her belief that the burden of raising/mentoring another man's son falls on me.

A woman must do what she can to make sure her son is raised right when the dad won't do it, such as send him to boot camp, to some military school, to a strong male relative to live with. But I don't think she should presume that some stranger or good, kind-hearted soul out of the general populace has to do it.

Before I am flamed, let me say: I have mentored before. I have friends who mentor. I admire all that!

But we have got to get the MEN with boys not raising their own boys to be a MAN and do it! Alas, many don't even know how.

Thoughts please?

Thanks!

J

agree.

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There was a statistic on the AJC last week that almost 80% of pregnant black women aren't married. That's ridiculous and pathetic.

GeorgiaFan, but what can we do? What must we do? Mentoring is fine. But fathering is supreme! I'm beginning to "weep" for our youth today. And weep for victims of crime by youths. A Mr. Snow, husband and father, went to a convenience story yesterday or the day before and was shot dead by a young black man. Senseless. I know crime is everywhere and done by all colors. But I am so sick of seeing every day the news reports of murders, robberies, by these black boys. I am becoming afraid of and developing a stereotypical mentality toward black youths. There seems to be an angry, heartless, wandering breed among us. Not good.

J

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GeorgiaFan, but what can we do? What must we do? Mentoring is fine. But fathering is supreme! I'm beginning to "weep" for our youth today. And weep for victims of crime by youths. A Mr. Snow, husband and father, went to a convenience story yesterday or the day before and was shot dead by a young black man. Senseless. I know crime is everywhere and done by all colors. But I am so sick of seeing every day the news reports of murders, robberies, by these black boys. I am becoming afraid of and developing a stereotypical mentality toward black youths. There seems to be an angry, heartless, wandering breed among us. Not good.

J

I think part of the problem is people are looking at the problem that comes after the problem here. Yea, those kids without daddies need mentoring it's true. But all those girls need to quit getting pregnant KNOWING what the situation is going to be. Condoms and birth control is free, and keeping your legs closed is not only free, but 100% effective.

It's just sooner or later people are going to have to just state the truth and people who have hurt feelings over the truth will just have to deal with it. Yes, white teens do the same thing, but this thread isn't about them so I am discussing what it is about.. a lazy, flippant and apathetic attitude about parenthood and their own future. I think many of them just assume they will have the baby and grandma and the government will raise the baby. And the dudes that are hitting it and running are no better.The saying may be hateful, but it is true." If you can't feed em, don't breed em." Because if you know you can't feed em, you sure aint worried about getting them educated either.

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I think part of the problem is people are looking at the problem that comes after the problem here. Yea, those kids without daddies need mentoring it's true. But all those girls need to quit getting pregnant KNOWING what the situation is going to be. Condoms and birth control is free, and keeping your legs closed is not only free, but 100% effective.

It's just sooner or later people are going to have to just state the truth and people who have hurt feelings over the truth will just have to deal with it. Yes, white teens do the same thing, but this thread isn't about them so I am discussing what it is about.. a lazy, flippant and apathetic attitude about parenthood and their own future. I think many of them just assume they will have the baby and grandma and the government will raise the baby. And the dudes that are hitting it and running are no better.The saying may be hateful, but it is true." If you can't feed em, don't breed em." Because if you know you can't feed em, you sure aint worried about getting them educated either.

thanks for your thougths, pencilpush.

but you and me and "us" need to do something. the problem has become "our" problem.

it could have been you or I who went into that store instead of Mr. Adams and got shot to death like he did. It could have been your son who just happened to pass by a boy that had just been hit by a girl but he had to take it out on another boy, and your boy got stomped to death. (maybe I"m taking this way too far ? ? ?).

Remember way back in the day when you were afraid of what yo' daddy would do if you ever "came home after dark," or some (by today's standard) rather small thing like that?

Today,kids are afraid on nothing they might do or of its consequences. Rob, steal, kill, rape, injure, vandalize.....you name it. Men, wherever they may come from, must give them the "man" training they need but are otherwise not getting. They need hope; vision; oh so much!

oh I can go on and on and on.

J

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thanks for your thougths, pencilpush.

but you and me and "us" need to do something. the problem has become "our" problem.

it could have been you or I who went into that store instead of Mr. Adams and got shot to death like he did. It could have been your son who just happened to pass by a boy that had just been hit by a girl but he had to take it out on another boy, and your boy got stomped to death. (maybe I"m taking this way too far ? ? ?).

Remember way back in the day when you were afraid of what yo' daddy would do if you ever "came home after dark," or some (by today's standard) rather small thing like that?

Today,kids are afraid on nothing they might do or of its consequences. Rob, steal, kill, rape, injure, vandalize.....you name it. Men, wherever they may come from, must give them the "man" training they need but are otherwise not getting. They need hope; vision; oh so much!

oh I can go on and on and on.

J

I agree with all of this. But in absence of daddies, mama's need to do what they can do. Of course the best thing to do is quit giving these scum who they KNOW are not gonna take responsibility the time of day. In other words, QUIT LAYING WITH DOGS!! :P

Im probably about to go off topic here, but humor me, please. Me and my mama were talking on the phone the other day and I was talking about how poor we were but it wasn't an excuse to act out. We didn't have an inside bathroom till I was in the 4th grade. we got up on Saturday morning and took a bath in a steel tub. Saturday was the big " going to town" day for us, and We would get clean and dressed up and everywhere you looked people were looking their best. I told her you go into stores now and women are walking around the stores wearing their **** pajamas and bedroom slippers. What chance do those womens kids have? When your mama can't or won't dress herself, you aint either. People can't even put down their cell phones in places where they need to. PEOPLE JUST DONT GIVE A ####, Joe and it's so sad it's funny. If I didn't shake my head and laugh I would snap.When the grown ups don't care, the kids never will.

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Gotta say Pencilpusher is correct! Black women have just as much a role as black men! In many cases, we have lowered or gotten rid of our standards. People don't just get a certain way overnight! There are signs and clues (usually tons of them) that let you know just what a person is about. And because we are lacking the security and confidence within ourselves, we make poor decisions when it comes to men. It has got to start with mothers and fathers telling their daughters that they are special and deserve respect, honesty, fidelity and commitment.

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thanks for your thougths, pencilpush.

but you and me and "us" need to do something. the problem has become "our" problem.

it could have been you or I who went into that store instead of Mr. Adams and got shot to death like he did. It could have been your son who just happened to pass by a boy that had just been hit by a girl but he had to take it out on another boy, and your boy got stomped to death. (maybe I"m taking this way too far ? ? ?).

Remember way back in the day when you were afraid of what yo' daddy would do if you ever "came home after dark," or some (by today's standard) rather small thing like that?

Today,kids are afraid on nothing they might do or of its consequences. Rob, steal, kill, rape, injure, vandalize.....you name it. Men, wherever they may come from, must give them the "man" training they need but are otherwise not getting. They need hope; vision; oh so much!

oh I can go on and on and on.

J

The media raises our kids, not parents. That's the issue. Even kids with families are falling wayward. There are a lot of things wrong in these black areas and many of these aren't their fault. People have to remember they there is a profitable system in place in America. It leeches on Blacks and works on them from then on. Some ppl figure out the matrix, their world would be a better place.

Edited by #1 pick
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You were better off keeping that comment to yourself.

Allow me to explain my thoughts. While it is true that poor black girls would proportionately take advantage of these grants more than any other group, any race could take advantage of the offer. Without the burdens of providing for many ******* children (without the help of the many different fathers), these young women can instead focus on advancing their own careers and becoming economic contributors.

Once these women become stable and no longer depend on under-educated wannabe thugs (or the nanny state) to support them, they then can decide if they want to find a suitable spouse, reverse the tubilization, and have a stable family. Poverty and crime will unquestionably drop that will pay huge economic dividends for generations.

You can not tell me this would not be a positive policy for blacks and the disadvantaged. Smaller, 2 parent families are exactly the cure for many of todays problems that noone seems to have the guts to address. Some studies have shown that China`s one child policy is a major reason for their economic success. How much longer will it be before we are forced to take similar steps?

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It's such a privilege to be a father and have a son. It makes me sick to think that there are fathers out there that just dont want anything to do with their kids. I personally dont think its a race thing. I think its a man thing and a responsibility thing. If you cant be these things dont breed.

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It's such a privilege to be a father and have a son. It makes me sick to think that there are fathers out there that just dont want anything to do with their kids. I personally dont think its a race thing. I think its a man thing and a responsibility thing. If you cant be these things dont breed.

I agree with you on almost all accounts. Its not a race thing, but it is to a point a racial cultural thing....There is nothing is the psyche or make-up of a black guy to him any more likely to avoid the responsibility and\or demands of fatherhood anymore than a white guy, but there are more cultural aspects that make it more permissible in the black community. As evidenced by 80% of black children born to single mothers. I do blame the so called Hip Hop culture. I think it has aggrandized "playas" to such a degree as this is how most young boys who subscribe to this type mentality see as the only way a woman should be treated..used and move on to the next. I don't know what the **** the girls are thinking.

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I agree with you on almost all accounts. Its not a race thing, but it is to a point a racial cultural thing....There is nothing is the psyche or make-up of a black guy to him any more likely to avoid the responsibility and\or demands of fatherhood anymore than a white guy, but there are more cultural aspects that make it more permissible in the black community. As evidenced by 80% of black children born to single mothers. I do blame the so called Hip Hop culture. I think it has aggrandized "playas" to such a degree as this is how most young boys who subscribe to this type mentality see as the only way a woman should be treated..used and move on to the next. I don't know what the **** the girls are thinking.

Man, I can attest to this.

Black culture tends to look at single, straight Black men with no children (even illegitimate children) as paraiahs. I've gotten strange looks from folks because I made the choice of not having kids, even ones out of wedlock.

True story. This one girl that I wanted to get to know asked me how many children I had. As a joke, I told her 4 and she didn't bat an eye, question me or even exclaim "DANG!" She just took it as truth. Ain't that a shame?

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I agree with you on almost all accounts. Its not a race thing, but it is to a point a racial cultural thing....There is nothing is the psyche or make-up of a black guy to him any more likely to avoid the responsibility and\or demands of fatherhood anymore than a white guy, but there are more cultural aspects that make it more permissible in the black community. As evidenced by 80% of black children born to single mothers. I do blame the so called Hip Hop culture. I think it has aggrandized "playas" to such a degree as this is how most young boys who subscribe to this type mentality see as the only way a woman should be treated..used and move on to the next. I don't know what the **** the girls are thinking.

Hip Hop wasn't invented back in the 60's. My mother was a single parent. My Aunts and most of the women in my maternal side are single parents. Let's stop blaming a phenomenon, and look at the choices that people make. The choice for a man to walk out on his children and wife is his choice. The same way it takes for them to cheat on their wife. In my case I can't say my father was a victim of a fatherless upbringing, because he was the third of 12 children and my grandfather died in 1986. He was the heart and soul of that family. My father left the farm and went to the big city. He made his choices.

In life we decide what we want to do everyday. Most of the time we skirt common sense and the law in order to get away with whatever we want. If we are held accountable for our actions then you would see different results.

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Hip Hop wasn't invented back in the 60's. My mother was a single parent. My Aunts and most of the women in my maternal side are single parents. Let's stop blaming a phenomenon, and look at the choices that people make. The choice for a man to walk out on his children and wife is his choice. The same way it takes for them to cheat on their wife. In my case I can't say my father was a victim of a fatherless upbringing, because he was the third of 12 children and my grandfather died in 1986. He was the heart and soul of that family. My father left the farm and went to the big city. He made his choices.

In life we decide what we want to do everyday. Most of the time we skirt common sense and the law in order to get away with whatever we want. If we are held accountable for our actions then you would see different results.

I have to agree with this post. Blaming the culture of a genre of music is too easy of a cop-out.

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I agree with you on almost all accounts. Its not a race thing, but it is to a point a racial cultural thing....There is nothing is the psyche or make-up of a black guy to him any more likely to avoid the responsibility and\or demands of fatherhood anymore than a white guy, but there are more cultural aspects that make it more permissible in the black community. As evidenced by 80% of black children born to single mothers. I do blame the so called Hip Hop culture. I think it has aggrandized "playas" to such a degree as this is how most young boys who subscribe to this type mentality see as the only way a woman should be treated..used and move on to the next. I don't know what the **** the girls are thinking.

It was an issue before hip hop...

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thanks for your thougths, pencilpush.

but you and me and "us" need to do something. the problem has become "our" problem.

it could have been you or I who went into that store instead of Mr. Adams and got shot to death like he did. It could have been your son who just happened to pass by a boy that had just been hit by a girl but he had to take it out on another boy, and your boy got stomped to death. (maybe I"m taking this way too far ? ? ?).

Remember way back in the day when you were afraid of what yo' daddy would do if you ever "came home after dark," or some (by today's standard) rather small thing like that?

Today,kids are afraid on nothing they might do or of its consequences. Rob, steal, kill, rape, injure, vandalize.....you name it. Men, wherever they may come from, must give them the "man" training they need but are otherwise not getting. They need hope; vision; oh so much!

oh I can go on and on and on.

J

Thats a great point. Im black, 26, with no children. Both parents are still together. Me and my siblings had a healthy "fear" of our father when it came to discipline. So we stayed out of trouble because we feared the consequences of breaking the rules and we didnt want to let our parents down.

As i've grown older i've realized my upbringing was an exception, not the norm... I think the problem starts as kids and when their not raised right or if the father isn't in the home, they're more likely to wild out and eventually they're aren't afraid of the consequences of breaking house rules, then school rules, then the law, or and they have trouble obeying any authoritative figure. So people grow up with that rebellious mentality with everything even down to the consequences of sex. Its just an endless cycle

Edited by J-Nice
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Man, I can attest to this.

Black culture tends to look at single, straight Black men with no children (even illegitimate children) as paraiahs. I've gotten strange looks from folks because I made the choice of not having kids, even ones out of wedlock.

True story. This one girl that I wanted to get to know asked me how many children I had. As a joke, I told her 4 and she didn't bat an eye, question me or even exclaim "DANG!" She just took it as truth. Ain't that a shame?

When I worked as a contractor I was the only white guy on the staff for a while, all the rest were black men and women. Everyone of those people thought I was gay because I was in my 30's and had no kids. :P But even though they thought I was gay, they still treated me great. :lol:

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