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Is it always best to steer clear from players' with a past?


JKH5785
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So, just let me start off by saying that I'm happy that the basis of our player scouting is centered around "good character" players...

Now that it's been said, I must add the "but"

...but is it wise to turn a cheek to every player who may have a past, especially the proven players that could upgrade certain positions?

I watched the Anthony Hargrove story tonight, and it got me thinking, even great teams take that chance...they take that leap of faith.

If we are going to recruit under the guise of "good character" players, than our FO must be able to differentiate b/t a possible impact player or likely failure.

Just naming a few players who had a past but still were able to be signed and make an impact... Chris Carter, Randy Moss, Michael Irvin, Anthony Hargrove, etc...

That is just naming a few names off the top of my head.

Point is, can we really afford to pass on impact players that are available and would fill a need? Even more so, can we afford to do it when the player is obtainable for the matter of peanuts?

Like I said, the FO must be able to differentiate when it is a high or low risk. We cannot afford to shun every player who has ever had a past, sometimes you got to take risk. Are we going to take the occasional risk, or are we building a team of boyscouts?

I was thinking, and I cannot name one Superbowl winner in the last 5 years that didn't have at least one player with a questionable past.

Sometimes, it's those players who take that second chance and do something spectacular with it.

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Bro I have several of these type threads on this board.

I know you are concerned about your board rep. You might want to lock or delete this thread if you can. If not, get ready for at least 50 negs.

Not many here agree with this notion.

I do though. The NFL is a microcosm of society. No different than county, city state and federal governemnt. Fortune CEOs, doctors, lawyers, NASA engineeers you name it.

Our team does the best they can but even we have had many many players that didn't cut the filter.

Lock it if you can.

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Here's a +1 to try and combat the idiots.

Thanks man

This board never ceases to amaze you. God forbid you hurt someone's fragile optimism, not that I really understand how this thread with hurt that optimism, it's not even a negative or criticizing thread. All this thread does is present an idea.

-1s for stating facts presenting an opinion, lol, it never gets old.

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I evened you back out JK. Not necessarily because I whole-heartedly agree. I just disagree w/the notion of someone negging you for a well though-out, and well-stated post.

On the topic, it's just a slippery slope. I never wanted Haynesworth here, in large part because he stomped on a guy's head during a game, maliciously. He's a beast when he wants to play, but right now it looks like it was a good call.

I didn't want Moss here either, because I thought he was a malcontent. Looks like that was a pretty horrible call, although, he never would have survived 2007 w/out acting out or asking for a trade - I'm almost positive he woulda gone D. Hall on the team.

I'm not completely opposed to the idea, but at the same time, I very much like and appreciate what the FO is doing to make sure they're getting quality players, both in talent and in character.

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Bro I have several of these type threads on this board.

I know you are concerned about your board rep. You might want to lock or delete this thread if you can. If not, get ready for at least 50 negs.

Not many here agree with this notion.

I do though. The NFL is a microcosm of society. No different than county, city state and federal governemnt. Fortune CEOs, doctors, lawyers, NASA engineeers you name it.

Our team does the best they can but even we have had many many players that didn't cut the filter.

Lock it if you can.

I'm not able to lock it, and even if I could I wouldn't.

I won't back down from my opinion for fear of losing meaningless rep points.

Thanks anyway bro!

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Why would we want any of those guys when we could have a Roddy White without the headaches? I support any decision TD, AB, & CMS make from this point on; other than leaving Atlanta or firing each other...lol

They've earned a 5 year reprieve from any criticism from me at this point.

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I am Torn....

yes you want good guys on the team

But

BUT

Winning comes first

I mean say... P Manning was caught with Cocain

would the Colts cut him ??????????

he77 no, they would get him in rehab , therapy , whatever,,,

ppl make mistakes

these guys are not Priest

they are football players

they fall in the Entertainment group

Actors

Musicians

Artist

ect

bottom line is ppl make mistakes

and its all about winning

I would like to see the Falcons take a few more chances on guys who can play....

not talking about Vick, he was always overrated to start with,

like plexico burass tho

yea he deserves another chance...

he was caught with a gun....

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I evened you back out JK. Not necessarily because I whole-heartedly agree. I just disagree w/the notion of someone negging you for a well though-out, and well-stated post.

On the topic, it's just a slippery slope. I never wanted Haynesworth here, in large part because he stomped on a guy's head during a game, maliciously. He's a beast when he wants to play, but right now it looks like it was a good call.

I didn't want Moss here either, because I thought he was a malcontent. Looks like that was a pretty horrible call, although, he never would have survived 2007 w/out acting out or asking for a trade - I'm almost positive he woulda gone D. Hall on the team.

I'm not completely opposed to the idea, but at the same time, I very much like and appreciate what the FO is doing to make sure they're getting quality players, both in talent and in character.

and I agree with you...

This is where the point I made about the FO must be able to differentiate b/t high and low risk players.

Players like Haynesworth and D.Hall are guys that are HIGH RISK

but a player like TJ for $800,000 would seem like an obvious LOW RISK addition.

Edited by JKH5785
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I am Torn....

yes you want good guys on the team

But

BUT

Winning comes first

This is sorta along the lines of what I'm saying...^^^^^ (I shortened your qupte because of size though)

yeah it's nice that we have players involved in the community, but they are brought here to play football, let's not forget that Winning and production should be the number one goal

You've got to show up on Sunday, and not just be out earning your scout badges Mon-Sat.

Edited by JKH5785
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This is sorta along the lines of what I'm saying...

yeah it's nice that we have players involved in the community, but they are brought here to play football, let's not forget that Winning and production should be the number one goal

You've got to show up on Sunday, and not just be out earning your scout badges Mon-Sat.

And so far TDs guys are showing upon Sundays. They are winning and producing.

BTW +1 for having the balls to post this topic.

Edited by geneaut
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And so far TDs guys are showing upon Sundays. They are winning and producing.

I assuming your talking about just the players that he drafted...

However when he took over as GM, he inherited all the players...

There are positions that could be upgraded, and they should be if there are means to do so...

"if you have the means, by all means do so!"

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I assuming your talking about just the players that he drafted...

However when he took over as GM, he inherited all the players...

There are positions that could be upgraded, and they should be if there are means to do so...

"if you have the means, by all means do so!"

He has been upgrading positions, correct ?

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Ask yourself why we have a "Falcon Filter"

Blank signed a player he trusted to the richest contract in NFL history. That player gets indicted on federal charges and goes to prison for two years. Along the way he lies to Blank numerous times about said involvement in nasty things. Blank really cared for Vick and was hurt and shocked by what happened. He's a proud man who also believes in second chances and all but does not like the idea of being lied to considering he just invested his team and future in you. You can understand his concerns for finding players of higher character. Note the recent posting on here about Falcons University. CNN has a story about it. He set up a series of lectures for his team and players to help them cope with life inside and outside the NFL. He cares not just for the team but also for the players. He's doing everything right to get his players on the straight and narrow.

He's a good man who got burned.

Can you blame him?

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He has been upgrading positions, correct ?

WR

I would have liked to of seen us go after TJ. He would have instantly upgraded our WR corps. He was a low risk player as far as his past was concerned, and could have been had for price of peanuts.

Last year our D line was in much need of improving. The Anthony Hargrove documentary tonight said that him and his agent sent a video and letter to all 32 teams.

The Saints took that risk, and he was an impact on their Defense all year.

You have to sometimes take that risk, especially if it's a low risk and the production could far exceed any other forseeable problem.

Like I said, I cannot think of a Superbowl winning team in the last 5 years that didn't have one or more players with a questionable past.

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TD had a great 08 draft, Jury still out on 09 and 10 draft tho, if Dez Bryant breaks out like moss in 98 and spoon struggles....

ppl are gonna be like wtf were we thinking....

i guess they know what they are doing....

i would have went after Peppers and probably took a chance on Dez if i were GM

i probably would have went after Big Nasty Albert in 09 aswell

i am a d guy tho and a d line with

Abe, Babs, Nasty Al and Pep :wub:

with Beerman as the #1 sub

man oh man

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TD had a great 08 draft, Jury still out on 09 and 10 draft tho, if Dez Bryant breaks out like moss in 98 and spoon struggles....

ppl are gonna be like wtf were we thinking....

i guess they know what they are doing....

i would have went after Peppers and probably took a chance on Dez if i were GM

i probably would have went after Big Nasty Albert in 09 aswell

i am a d guy tho and a d line with

Abe, Babs, Nasty Al and Pep :wub:

with Beerman as the #1 sub

man oh man

Have you not watched Haynesworth the last two years? The guy is a waste and a lousy teammate. Do you honestly think he can put together a somewhat decent year this year? Please. No other team wants him.

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Ask yourself why we have a "Falcon Filter"

Blank signed a player he trusted to the richest contract in NFL history. That player gets indicted on federal charges and goes to prison for two years. Along the way he lies to Blank numerous times about said involvement in nasty things. Blank really cared for Vick and was hurt and shocked by what happened. He's a proud man who also believes in second chances and all but does not like the idea of being lied to considering he just invested his team and future in you. You can understand his concerns for finding players of higher character. Note the recent posting on here about Falcons University. CNN has a story about it. He set up a series of lectures for his team and players to help them cope with life inside and outside the NFL. He cares not just for the team but also for the players. He's doing everything right to get his players on the straight and narrow.

He's a good man who got burned.

Can you blame him?

So do we move on...or do we make our decisions based on what YKW did? It was over 3 years ago, and this is a completely different team, we need to move on I say.

I love everything he does for the players, and I agree with going after high character guys, but when it comes down to taking a guy with less talent and a clean slate, or overflowing talent and a low risk question mark, I want to know that we will pull the trigger.

I love the idea of high character players, but not at the cost of being blind to all options with any ?marks.

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So do we move on...or do we make our decisions based on what YKW did? It was over 3 years ago, and this is a completely different team, we need to move on I say.

I love everything he does for the players, and I agree with going after high character guys, but when it comes down to taking a guy with less talent and a clean slate, or overflowing talent and a low risk question mark, I want to know that we will pull the trigger.

I love the idea of high character players, but not at the cost of being blind to all options with any ?marks.

What criminal with ? marks did we pass on?

Don't say Bryant cause he was never on this team's radar according to Dimtroff. Just because someone is out there doesn't mean we sign him. Building a team is more than just signing players. Who out there did you want so bad? And where would he fit into the process?

As for Vick, yes he went to jail 3 years ago, but the point is that Blank learned from the experience. Why get burned again? What if he signed someone with character issues and it happened again, how would that make him look? How would that make the franchise look? Guess what, PR is rather important to him, the team and the league. Notice how Goodell handles the kinds of players now. Blank doesn't want Atlanta to be Cincy south.

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I've got to say that I really appreciate the Falcon filter. I think that it honestly makes us a better team.

However, I don't necessarily disagree with you. I do think that some guys deserve a second chance and can make the most of it (Randy Moss). But I believe the biggest issue is deciding if it is worth it to sign a guy who has huge talent but is a potential locker room cancer. Is that worth the risk? I don't think so. Been there done that.

It amazes me how many people actually were hoping that we would find a way (and still hope!) to bring Haynesworth here. Ugh. Can you imagine?

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WR

I would have liked to of seen us go after TJ. He would have instantly upgraded our WR corps. He was a low risk player as far as his past was concerned, and could have been had for price of peanuts.

Last year our D line was in much need of improving. The Anthony Hargrove documentary tonight said that him and his agent sent a video and letter to all 32 teams.

The Saints took that risk, and he was an impact on their Defense all year.

You have to sometimes take that risk, especially if it's a low risk and the production could far exceed any other forseeable problem.

Like I said, I cannot think of a Superbowl winning team in the last 5 years that didn't have one or more players with a questionable past.

Do you know we didn't go after TJ ? Just asking. Frankly I'd rather have gotten TO than TJ just from the view point of production. Heck, I wanted to draft Golden Tate in the 1st round this year.

I'm glad Hargrove got a 2nd chance. I probably wouldn't have signed him myself. I think Sean Peyton has a way with his players where he can handle potential problem children. Kudos to the Saints gamble for paying off, but looking at his career stats before last season 05 was his only year where he stood out. In 06 and 07 he looked like warm crap, and of course missed all of 08 after being suspended. I doubt he was on many teams radars after playing his way off of 2 bad teams like St Louis and Buffalo.

You could argue Babs has gotten a 2nd and 3rd chance with us as well. TD did resign him after his dog slinging incident. Not to mention his wacky weed problem. Or Weems' DUI for that matter. It's not an Eagle Scout reunion out there.

Edited by geneaut
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I've got to say that I really appreciate the Falcon filter. I think that it honestly makes us a better team.

However, I don't necessarily disagree with you. I do think that some guys deserve a second chance and can make the most of it (Randy Moss). But I believe the biggest issue is deciding if it is worth it to sign a guy who has huge talent but is a potential locker room cancer. Is that worth the risk? I don't think so. Been there done that.

It amazes me how many people actually were hoping that we would find a way (and still hope!) to bring Haynesworth here. Ugh. Can you imagine?

Does Moss count? He takes plays off and needs to be motivated but he doesn't really have a past. You can question his character but not his production.

Guys like Chris Henry and Pacman Jones had serious issues off the field as did Vick. What do can destroy a locker room.

But TO or Moss can be unmotivated when not winning. Moss has humbled down a lot in NE only because he's not choosing to be the big star there. Brady and Belachik are the stars there.

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Who out there did you want so bad? And where would he fit into the process?

Read the thread instead of getting all testy. I said I wanted TJ, but this thread isn't centered around 1 player, it is more a less an idea to debate.

The FO is just as much to blame for some of the things Vick was doing and giving him that contract to begin with. Vick was always last in and first out, he even admitted to it, but they still rewarded him the richest contract in the league. I mean, Vick deserves most of the blame, but what happened shouldn't be used as a fulcrum as to why we cannot take low-risk that would improve this team in 2010.

I would have liked for us to have gone after TO or TJ, and at least have landed one of them. I just don't think some of you realize just how bad we need a legitimate threat #2 WR.

Edited by JKH5785
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