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SEC leads the way in oversigning.


SacFalcFan
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There's a website out there, oversigning.com, which keeps track of schools that consistently oversign players each February and calls out those schools for violating the spirit of the rules.

According to oversigning.com, the worst five violators nationally the past four years have been SEC schools.

Auburn has averaged signing 29.75 players in the last four recruiting classes, beginning with the 2007 class. Ole Miss is second (28.75), Alabama and Mississippi State tied for third (28.25) and Arkansas tied for fifth (27.25).

South Carolina was seventh nationally (26.50), while LSU was tied for eighth (26.25).

The only SEC schools at 25 or under during that span, according to oversigning.com, were Tennessee (24.25), Florida (23.25), Georgia (21.50) and Vanderbilt (19.25).

Schools are allowed to enroll only 25 players on scholarship each August and have an 85-scholarship limit for the team.

Also, the SEC adopted legislation last year that prevents schools from signing more than 28 players who count against that particular class. For instance, Ole Miss signed 37 in 2009, which sort of triggered the legislation.

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"This is where Brian Cook's proposed rule of proving where a scholarship is coming from before signing a letter of intent would come in handy. Right now coaches have all the cards. They can sit back and wait and see who they are able to land in recruiting first and then if necessary cut a lesser player to make room for a better one. Coaches that do this need to be called on the carpet for it. And don't even think about giving us this BS about the one-year renewable scholarship deal - that is a one-sided agreement at best. If you are going to play that card and attempt to justify cutting players because scholarships are only good for one year, then you have to be willing to swallow the fact that players do not have the same option - they are not able to leave after one year with no strings attached. If a player wants to leave on his own he has to sit out a year, period. And if you are so in favor of the one year rule and have no problem cutting players, then why not endorse players being able to act as free-agents and play wherever they want whenever they want?"

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"This is where Brian Cook's proposed rule of proving where a scholarship is coming from before signing a letter of intent would come in handy. Right now coaches have all the cards. They can sit back and wait and see who they are able to land in recruiting first and then if necessary cut a lesser player to make room for a better one. Coaches that do this need to be called on the carpet for it. And don't even think about giving us this BS about the one-year renewable scholarship deal - that is a one-sided agreement at best. If you are going to play that card and attempt to justify cutting players because scholarships are only good for one year, then you have to be willing to swallow the fact that players do not have the same option - they are not able to leave after one year with no strings attached. If a player wants to leave on his own he has to sit out a year, period. And if you are so in favor of the one year rule and have no problem cutting players, then why not endorse players being able to act as free-agents and play wherever they want whenever they want?"

I hope our coaches are passing this information on to recruits. As a parent and player, thats nice information to know.

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I just started using that website. I heard about it from Bama fans who want to find the guy who owns the website and dismember him. The march to 85 article is eye opening.

My link

It's a great website and is necessary. That site is also getting a lot of exposure. I have seen it referred now in the past 2 months over 10 times on different national shows.

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If Saban is allowed to get away with this type of behavior other schools will follow suit in order to keep the playing feild level. Its the same as playing a team on Roids when all of your guys are clean. THE NCAA must step in a find a solution to this problem before it becomes an epidemic. The problem is age old, but staying one step ahead of the abusers is the right thing to do.

Edited by daroadrambler
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You guys are right -- let's really let those coaches have it who have oversigned. But I am not real sure why we stopped in 2007? Let's go back one more year and get that son of a gun Mark Richt who signed 28 players in the 2006 class. And if you want to really talk about dirty then let's go back to the recruiting classes of 2002 when that dirty, low-down Richt signed 31 recruits. Are you kidding me?

Guys I agree that kids should not have the scholarships stripped, but believe it or not, there is attrition at every program in the off-season -- take a look at some attrition for UGA this offseason with Montez Robinson and Mettenberger. It happens.

To imply that Star Jackson was cut by Alabama is ridiculous -- Star had a pretty good showing at the A-Day Game but simply sees the writing on the wall with three other QBs that have moved ahead of him. I do not blame him at all with wanting to go somewhere where he can get on the field. But there is no evidence that suggests Saban or anybody else pushed Star out the door -- and believe me, in this day and time, if Saban was cutting kids, then they would talk and bring it to light.

Alabama is playing by the same rules as every other coach in the SEC and the NCAA and should make no apologies for it. They have been forced to oversign over the past five years to try and get our numbers back to the 85 after probation and scholarship reductions -- it happens at schools everywhere, including (as noted above) at Georgia under Mark Richt.

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If Saban is allowed to get away with this type of behavior other schools will follow suit in order to keep the playing feild level. Its the same as playing a team on Roids when all of your guys are clean. THE NCAA must step in a find a solution to this problem before it becomes an epidemic. The problem is age old, but staying one step ahead of the abusers is the right thing to do.

i agree the ncaa needs to do something that the sec won't do and stop programs who continue to oversign as a way of doing their business and then kicking guys off the team. It's horrible treatment of the student athletes. The abuse of the student athlete needs to be stopped by someone and with them thinking of super conferences it will only get worst. If you are going to kick players off your team for room then you need allow them to go where ever they want without any penalties. I agree they need to get ahead of the consistent year in and year out abusers.

I thought the numbers showed a lot, the last 4 years:

"Auburn has averaged signing 29.75 players in the last four recruiting classes, beginning with the 2007 class. Ole Miss is second (28.75), Alabama and Mississippi State tied for third (28.25) and Arkansas tied for fifth (27.25).

South Carolina was seventh nationally (26.50), while LSU was tied for eighth (26.25).

The only SEC schools at 25 or under during that span, according to oversigning.com, were Tennessee (24.25), Florida (23.25), Georgia (21.50) and Vanderbilt (19.25)."

The race to 85 for some teams with 7 to 10 guys over is ridiculous and needs to stop. It's one thing when guys get in trouble with the law, it's another when a player isn't good enough and is asked to leave (wink, wink) wouldn't get with the program is the excuse their fans make when the reality is they signed over the 85 limit. I believe all fans should read oversigning.com and see the numbers. Also for anyone who wants to know what oversigning is and isn't:

What oversigning is and isn't.

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You guys are right -- let's really let those coaches have it who have oversigned. But I am not real sure why we stopped in 2007? Let's go back one more year and get that son of a gun Mark Richt who signed 28 players in the 2006 class. And if you want to really talk about dirty then let's go back to the recruiting classes of 2002 when that dirty, low-down Richt signed 31 recruits. Are you kidding me?

Guys I agree that kids should not have the scholarships stripped, but believe it or not, there is attrition at every program in the off-season -- take a look at some attrition for UGA this offseason with Montez Robinson and Mettenberger. It happens.

To imply that Star Jackson was cut by Alabama is ridiculous -- Star had a pretty good showing at the A-Day Game but simply sees the writing on the wall with three other QBs that have moved ahead of him. I do not blame him at all with wanting to go somewhere where he can get on the field. But there is no evidence that suggests Saban or anybody else pushed Star out the door -- and believe me, in this day and time, if Saban was cutting kids, then they would talk and bring it to light.

Alabama is playing by the same rules as every other coach in the SEC and the NCAA and should make no apologies for it. They have been forced to oversign over the past five years to try and get our numbers back to the 85 after probation and scholarship reductions -- it happens at schools everywhere, including (as noted above) at Georgia under Mark Richt.

I think you should read Sac's link on what oversigning is and isn't. I feel you're a little confused on what oversigning is. It's not so much signing over 25 in a class, it's about staying under the 85 total limit. If year in and year out, you're signing 29-30+ kids, the math doesn't add up. I know a lot of coaches gamble and did the sign and place thing, assuming a kid wouldn't enroll (Tubberville was the worst at this).

Not quite sure how trying to attack CMR proves your point. As a quick example, let's take a look at the 2006 class you mentioned. First of all, you are incorrect. 28 players committed, but only 27 signed. Clifton Geathers didn't qualify and went to South Carolina. Next, we had at least 3 that I remember from that class (Stafford, Asher Allen, and Kevin Perez) enroll early, so those count towards the previous class. So, by your definition of "oversigning" looks like we're ok there.

How about our most recent class of 2010. 19 commitments (Not sure if they'll all qualify just yet, but I know Lonnie Outlaw was a sign and place). So, we are maxed at 18. And don't look now, but our 2009 class had 20. But I guess you overlooked them and didn't include that in your attack. Strange. Wow, guess that son of a gun Mark Richt should win an award then....

Also you mentioned Montez Robinson and Mettenberger. They were kicked off the team for run-ins with the law, and should have been. They didn't leave on their own for supposed "academic reasons" or "playing time" or to make the roster hit that magical 85 number.

I understand when someone (prolly an AU or TN fan) attacks your program and moreso your coach, you're going to be ticked and defend him. I get that. But to try and attack someone else is silly, especially when you are misinformed. Doesn't really prove anything, other than CMR isn't quite the Son of Gun or as low-down and dirty you say he is. Take it out on the site. Or just go for a walk.

Bottom line is, and not just at Alabama, there needs to be something put in place to stop this. It's not fair to the kids, nor to other teams who play by the rules.

And one last thing to end my rant... Quoted from UGASports.com:

"Georgia signed 18 for 2010. With the admitted freshmen who have already been admitted, there are currently 78 scholarship players on the roster. If all six remaining signees qualify by August, Georgia will be one under the NCAA limit of 85 scholarships with 84. "

Edited by tjb
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You guys are right -- let's really let those coaches have it who have oversigned. But I am not real sure why we stopped in 2007? Let's go back one more year and get that son of a gun Mark Richt who signed 28 players in the 2006 class. And if you want to really talk about dirty then let's go back to the recruiting classes of 2002 when that dirty, low-down Richt signed 31 recruits. Are you kidding me?

Guys I agree that kids should not have the scholarships stripped, but believe it or not, there is attrition at every program in the off-season -- take a look at some attrition for UGA this offseason with Montez Robinson and Mettenberger. It happens.

To imply that Star Jackson was cut by Alabama is ridiculous -- Star had a pretty good showing at the A-Day Game but simply sees the writing on the wall with three other QBs that have moved ahead of him. I do not blame him at all with wanting to go somewhere where he can get on the field. But there is no evidence that suggests Saban or anybody else pushed Star out the door -- and believe me, in this day and time, if Saban was cutting kids, then they would talk and bring it to light.

Alabama is playing by the same rules as every other coach in the SEC and the NCAA and should make no apologies for it. They have been forced to oversign over the past five years to try and get our numbers back to the 85 after probation and scholarship reductions -- it happens at schools everywhere, including (as noted above) at Georgia under Mark Richt.

This is the part many people seem to ignore, I expect numbers to come down now that Saban has had a few draft classes . Also agree on Star Jackson ....He wasn't cut, he just didnt want to ride the pine another year and I cant blame him. He actually looked really good in the spring and I wish him well where ever he ends up.
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I think you should read Sac's link on what oversigning is and isn't. I feel you're a little confused on what oversigning is. It's not so much signing over 25 in a class, it's about staying under the 85 total limit. If year in and year out, you're signing 29-30+ kids, the math doesn't add up. I know a lot of coaches gamble and did the sign and place thing, assuming a kid wouldn't enroll (Tubberville was the worst at this).

Not quite sure how trying to attack CMR proves your point. As a quick example, let's take a look at the 2006 class you mentioned. First of all, you are incorrect. 28 players committed, but only 27 signed. Clifton Geathers didn't qualify and went to South Carolina. Next, we had at least 3 that I remember from that class (Stafford, Asher Allen, and Kevin Perez) enroll early, so those count towards the previous class. So, by your definition of "oversigning" looks like we're ok there.

How about our most recent class of 2010. 19 commitments (Not sure if they'll all qualify just yet, but I know Lonnie Outlaw was a sign and place). So, we are maxed at 18. And don't look now, but our 2009 class had 20. But I guess you overlooked them and didn't include that in your attack. Strange. Wow, guess that son of a gun Mark Richt should win an award then....

Also you mentioned Montez Robinson and Mettenberger. They were kicked off the team for run-ins with the law, and should have been. They didn't leave on their own for supposed "academic reasons" or "playing time" or to make the roster hit that magical 85 number.

I understand when someone (prolly an AU or TN fan) attacks your program and moreso your coach, you're going to be ticked and defend him. I get that. But to try and attack someone else is silly, especially when you are misinformed. Doesn't really prove anything, other than CMR isn't quite the Son of Gun or as low-down and dirty you say he is. Take it out on the site. Or just go for a walk.

Bottom line is, and not just at Alabama, there needs to be something put in place to stop this. It's not fair to the kids, nor to other teams who play by the rules.

And one last thing to end my rant... Quoted from UGASports.com:

"Georgia signed 18 for 2010. With the admitted freshmen who have already been admitted, there are currently 78 scholarship players on the roster. If all six remaining signees qualify by August, Georgia will be one under the NCAA limit of 85 scholarships with 84. "

DGD!!! :lol:

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The part of the article that said it all for me was the fact that oversigning itself creates the atmosphere where the kid is forced out. I dont blame Bama for signing Sims, (he is from my area) but when you continue to overrecruit, someone has to go. You can continue to say "the kid saw the writing on the wall" but this is a programs way of forcing a kid out. What kid wants to have the stigma attached to him that he cost the program sanctions by the NCAA because he wouldnt quit or transfer? Its dirty business, its wrong, and if the NCAA has its student athletes interests above all else, it will find a reasonable solution to this problem.

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I think you should read Sac's link on what oversigning is and isn't. I feel you're a little confused on what oversigning is. It's not so much signing over 25 in a class, it's about staying under the 85 total limit. If year in and year out, you're signing 29-30+ kids, the math doesn't add up. I know a lot of coaches gamble and did the sign and place thing, assuming a kid wouldn't enroll (Tubberville was the worst at this).

Not quite sure how trying to attack CMR proves your point. As a quick example, let's take a look at the 2006 class you mentioned. First of all, you are incorrect. 28 players committed, but only 27 signed. Clifton Geathers didn't qualify and went to South Carolina. Next, we had at least 3 that I remember from that class (Stafford, Asher Allen, and Kevin Perez) enroll early, so those count towards the previous class. So, by your definition of "oversigning" looks like we're ok there.

How about our most recent class of 2010. 19 commitments (Not sure if they'll all qualify just yet, but I know Lonnie Outlaw was a sign and place). So, we are maxed at 18. And don't look now, but our 2009 class had 20. But I guess you overlooked them and didn't include that in your attack. Strange. Wow, guess that son of a gun Mark Richt should win an award then....

Also you mentioned Montez Robinson and Mettenberger. They were kicked off the team for run-ins with the law, and should have been. They didn't leave on their own for supposed "academic reasons" or "playing time" or to make the roster hit that magical 85 number.

I understand when someone (prolly an AU or TN fan) attacks your program and moreso your coach, you're going to be ticked and defend him. I get that. But to try and attack someone else is silly, especially when you are misinformed. Doesn't really prove anything, other than CMR isn't quite the Son of Gun or as low-down and dirty you say he is. Take it out on the site. Or just go for a walk.

Bottom line is, and not just at Alabama, there needs to be something put in place to stop this. It's not fair to the kids, nor to other teams who play by the rules.

And one last thing to end my rant... Quoted from UGASports.com:

"Georgia signed 18 for 2010. With the admitted freshmen who have already been admitted, there are currently 78 scholarship players on the roster. If all six remaining signees qualify by August, Georgia will be one under the NCAA limit of 85 scholarships with 84. "

It appears my sarcasm was missed in your reading. Listen, I like Mark Richt -- my post was not an attack on Richt. It was a tongue in cheek statement that even the coaches who I consider to be as ethical as they come (i.e., Richt) sometimes go over that 25 mark -- which is the measuring stick that was given in the statistics cited by Sac.

The thing is that Alabama, for example, signed 26 kids in February -- 4 of those were back-counters, 1 was a re-sign, and 1 is a sign and place -- as such, Alabama really is bringing in 20 kids for the class of 2010. With that said, we agree that the 85 is the true number -- which Alabama has met each year with not one complaint by a recruit, player, family member, or outsider that a kid has been sent packing. Kids transfer at every school when they get tired of riding the pine (was Mark Richt trying to force Logan Gray out when he was thinking things over -- I would say no).

The point with Mettenberger and Robinson was also misunderstood. I agree that those kids should have been dismissed. The point there is that no school is without attrition in the offseason. Chances are Alabama and Georgia will have a few more kids this Summer who move on for a better opportunity, do not get cleared medically, or have a brush with the law and get kicked to the curb. It happens -- and unless a school wants to play with 10 less scholarships than the competition they build in for those kind of contingencies.

Alabama in the past few years has been very successful in working out a plan with kids who will come in as greyshirts to gain an extra year of eligibility (the kids know going in what the plan is and it often helps kids get that extra year to develop -- see John Parker Wilson and Drew Davis as prime examples). Those greyshirts do not count on the 85 but they do count as a signee. That has led to some people misconstruing where Alabama is right now from a total scholarship standpoint. Again, a greyshirt is not for everyone (i.e., a player who can contribute right away) but is really good for a player who needs to physically develop -- having those contingency plans for grayshirts makes certain that Alabama never goes over the 85 and allows a grayshirt an opportunity to come in right away and take a redshirt year instead if the attrition is atypical during the off-season.

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It appears my sarcasm was missed in your reading. Listen, I like Mark Richt -- my post was not an attack on Richt. It was a tongue in cheek statement that even the coaches who I consider to be as ethical as they come (i.e., Richt) sometimes go over that 25 mark -- which is the measuring stick that was given in the statistics cited by Sac.

The thing is that Alabama, for example, signed 26 kids in February -- 4 of those were back-counters, 1 was a re-sign, and 1 is a sign and place -- as such, Alabama really is bringing in 20 kids for the class of 2010. With that said, we agree that the 85 is the true number -- which Alabama has met each year with not one complaint by a recruit, player, family member, or outsider that a kid has been sent packing. Kids transfer at every school when they get tired of riding the pine (was Mark Richt trying to force Logan Gray out when he was thinking things over -- I would say no).

The point with Mettenberger and Robinson was also misunderstood. I agree that those kids should have been dismissed. The point there is that no school is without attrition in the offseason. Chances are Alabama and Georgia will have a few more kids this Summer who move on for a better opportunity, do not get cleared medically, or have a brush with the law and get kicked to the curb. It happens -- and unless a school wants to play with 10 less scholarships than the competition they build in for those kind of contingencies.

Alabama in the past few years has been very successful in working out a plan with kids who will come in as greyshirts to gain an extra year of eligibility (the kids know going in what the plan is and it often helps kids get that extra year to develop -- see John Parker Wilson and Drew Davis as prime examples). Those greyshirts do not count on the 85 but they do count as a signee. That has led to some people misconstruing where Alabama is right now from a total scholarship standpoint. Again, a greyshirt is not for everyone (i.e., a player who can contribute right away) but is really good for a player who needs to physically develop -- having those contingency plans for grayshirts makes certain that Alabama never goes over the 85 and allows a grayshirt an opportunity to come in right away and take a redshirt year instead if the attrition is atypical during the off-season.

I got the sarcasm, but prolly hadn't had my morning coffee at that point yet :lol: .

I wasn't taking any digs at Bama or Saban, or at least that wasn't my intention. I don't really follow Alabama football, so I couldn't tell you who all they signed or how many or whatever (other than it was one of the top classes), which is why I didn't even comment on that part. I understand due to attrition of all kinds (injuries, grades, etc..), you sometimes need to go over the 25 limit to backfill spots.

I realize you were just trying to make a point, but all I was doing was clarifying the "examples" you cited were incorrect. In all of CMR's years he's only had more than 25 "commits" twice. Even then when you take into account early enrollees, not qualifying,etc.., he's not been over it (like I mentioned with the 2006 example). Most years is 22 or so and below. Which is why many years he awards walk-on's scholarships, because there is extras. I was strictly pointing out that looking at Rivals commitment lists for each year doesn't tell the whole story. Which again, is why I haven't commented on anything about Bama commits since I don't know the "full picture" to make an informed opinion.

Frankly, had you cited any other coach in your example, it prolly wouldn't have even registered with me. I understand there's a lot of UGA guys on this board, which is why you chose the example you did. Here lately, all I read and hear about is CMR has lost control of his program, players are out of control, he's on the hot-seat, he's lost his edge, etc.. I guess that's made me a little extra "defensive" of CMR.

Had you referenced Lane Kiffin instead, I probably would have done some research to help even further prove your point... :lol::lol:

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I got the sarcasm, but prolly hadn't had my morning coffee at that point yet :lol: .

I wasn't taking any digs at Bama or Saban, or at least that wasn't my intention. I don't really follow Alabama football, so I couldn't tell you who all they signed or how many or whatever (other than it was one of the top classes), which is why I didn't even comment on that part. I understand due to attrition of all kinds (injuries, grades, etc..), you sometimes need to go over the 25 limit to backfill spots.

I realize you were just trying to make a point, but all I was doing was clarifying the "examples" you cited were incorrect. In all of CMR's years he's only had more than 25 "commits" twice. Even then when you take into account early enrollees, not qualifying,etc.., he's not been over it (like I mentioned with the 2006 example). Most years is 22 or so and below. Which is why many years he awards walk-on's scholarships, because there is extras. I was strictly pointing out that looking at Rivals commitment lists for each year doesn't tell the whole story. Which again, is why I haven't commented on anything about Bama commits since I don't know the "full picture" to make an informed opinion.

Frankly, had you cited any other coach in your example, it prolly wouldn't have even registered with me. I understand there's a lot of UGA guys on this board, which is why you chose the example you did. Here lately, all I read and hear about is CMR has lost control of his program, players are out of control, he's on the hot-seat, he's lost his edge, etc.. I guess that's made me a little extra "defensive" of CMR.

Had you referenced Lane Kiffin instead, I probably would have done some research to help even further prove your point... :lol::lol:

Hey, no problem man. Your post had some good information in it and I definitely understood where you were coming from. I just wanted to be clear I have no problems with Richt -- there are some critiques you can make of Richt right now, but running an unethical program is certainly not one of them.

As for Lane Kiffin, it is not really as fun without having the conference whipping boy to pile on. Maybe Vandy will hire him after he goes down in flames at USC.

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