The Official Fire Frank Wren Thread

[#1 pick]

This dude is sh**, he's makes terrible signings (Lowe, Kenshin in terms of price, Garrett Anderson :ph34r: , Troy "Too Late" Glaus :ph34r: :wacko: , Greg Norton and etc.

Terrible trades: Casey "No extra bases" Kotchman, Ryan Church, Mark Texiera, Melky Bustbera.

The players we traded or didn't resign: LaRoche, Kelly Johnson, Jeff F., M. Gonzalez, Andruw "better than Chipped" Jones. Looking at it, this roster was garbage and still is. Smh at the Braves.

Edited May 8, 2010 by #1 pick

[Falcon Fanatic]

Glad people are finally seeing the light about Wren. There needs to be a house cleaning after this season from top to bottom.

[Chili Dog]

Excluding Heyward, McCann, Prado, Infante, this offense is the juice that drips on the asphalt after a garbage truck compacts on a hot summer day

Edited May 8, 2010 by Chili Dog

[K26dp]

First of all, let's get our facts straight.

Major transactions under Frank Wren:

TRADES:

Traded Edgar Renteria to the Detroit Tigers. Received Gorkys Hernandez (minors) and Jair Jurrjens.

Traded Jose Ascanio to the Chicago Cubs. Received Omar Infante and Will Ohman.

Traded Mark Teixeira to the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim. Received Steve Marek (minors) and Casey Kotchman.

Traded Jon Gilmore (minors), Santos Rodriguez (minors), Tyler Flowers and Brent Lillibridge to the Chicago White Sox. Received Boone Logan and Javier Vazquez.

Traded Gorkys Hernandez (minors), Jeff Locke (minors) and Charlie Morton to the Pittsburgh Pirates. Received Nate McLouth.

Traded Jeff Francoeur to the New York Mets. Received Ryan Church.

Traded Casey Kotchman to the Boston Red Sox. Received Adam LaRoche.

Traded Rafael Soriano to the Tampa Bay Rays. Received Jesse Chavez.

Traded Boone Logan and Javier Vazquez to the New York Yankees. Received Arodys Vizcaino (minors), Melky Cabrera, Michael Dunn and cash.

FREE AGENT SIGNINGS:

November 18, 2007: Signed Tom Glavine, 1 yr/$8 million.

December 26, 2007: Signed Jorge Campillo, minor league contract.

November 18, 2008: Signed Brooks Conrad, minor league contract.

December 5, 2008: Signed David Ross, 2 yrs/$3 million.

December 19, 2008 Signed Greg Norton, 1 yr/$800K

January 13, 2009: Signed Derek Lowe, 4 yrs/$60 million

January 13, 2009: Signed Kenshin Kawakami, 3 yrs/$23 million.

February 20, 2009: Signed Tom Glavine, 1 yr/$1 million

February 24, 2009: Signed Garret Anderson, 1 yr/$2.5 million

December 2, 2009: Signed Billy Wagner, 1 yr/$6.25 million plus option

December 3, 2009: Signed Takashi Saito, 1 yr/$3.2 million.

January 5, 2010: Signed Troy Glaus, 1 yr/$1.75 million plus incentives

January 5, 2010: Signed Eric Hinske, 1 yr/$1 million

SIGNIFICANT BRAVES FREE AGENTS NOT RE-SIGNED:

2008: Ron Mahay, Andruw Jones, Octavio Dotel, Willie Harris

2009: Wil Ohman, John Smoltz, Mike Hampton

2010: Mike Gonzalez, Rafael Soriano, Garret Anderson, Adam LaRoche, Greg Norton, Jorge Campillo, Ryan Church (non-tendered), Kelly Johnson (non-tendered)

WAIVER TRANSACTIONS:

November 20, 2008: Selected Eric O'Flaherty off waivers from the Seattle Mariners.

Edited May 8, 2010 by K26dp

[JTRaines92]

Glaus is growing on me, he made me really mad early though... Melky though, sucks. I'd rather have Gregor Blanco up there or a Jordan Schafer up there as he is. I hate Melky so bad! Diaz is sucking it up too so blame him as well as the others. He has made some bad moves but I think he's been on the hot seat and this just made me hate him. The "Tex" trade made me mad and the he signed this loser Cabrera, he just sucks!

Edited May 8, 2010 by JTRaines92

[ATLBrave]

Well, I guess I get to play the "apologetic" role again.

First of all, Frank Wren did not make the trade for Mark Teixeira, so you're already wrong on that point. He also traded for Greg Norton in 2008, who happened to be the majors best pinch hitter (and top pinch hit HR hitter) that year. As for Andruw Jones, the guy was coming off one his worst seasons as a major leaguer and was going to command upwards up $12m. Correct move. Jeff Francoeur was traded for Ryan Church, yet you have one listed as a terrible trade and one listed as a guy he did not re-sign.....can't have it both ways. Francoeur, despite his hot start to the season, is back to his usual hitting ways with an OBP of .325 and and OPS under .800, which is terrible for a RF. Kelly Johnson was also coming off a season where he just absolutely sucked. No if, and's, or but's about it. He sucked. The "Melky Cabrera" trade wasn't even for Melky Cabrera as quite a few have mentioned on this forum, but for the young stud SP prospect Arodys Vizcaino and Mike Dunn.

[#1 pick]

First of all, let's get our facts straight.

Major transactions under Frank Wren:

TRADES:

Traded Edgar Renteria to the Detroit Tigers. Received Gorkys Hernandez (minors) and Jair Jurrjens.

Traded Jose Ascanio to the Chicago Cubs. Received Omar Infante and Will Ohman.

Traded Mark Teixeira to the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim. Received Steve Marek (minors) and Casey Kotchman.

Traded Jon Gilmore (minors), Santos Rodriguez (minors), Tyler Flowers and Brent Lillibridge to the Chicago White Sox. Received Boone Logan and Javier Vazquez.

Traded Gorkys Hernandez (minors), Jeff Locke (minors) and Charlie Morton to the Pittsburgh Pirates. Received Nate McLouth.

Traded Jeff Francoeur to the New York Mets. Received Ryan Church.

Traded Casey Kotchman to the Boston Red Sox. Received Adam LaRoche.

Traded Rafael Soriano to the Tampa Bay Rays. Received Jesse Chavez.

Traded Boone Logan and Javier Vazquez to the New York Yankees. Received Arodys Vizcaino (minors), Melky Cabrera, Michael Dunn and cash.

FREE AGENT SIGNINGS:

November 18, 2007: Signed Tom Glavine, 1 yr/$8 million.

December 26, 2007: Signed Jorge Campillo, minor league contract.

November 18, 2008: Signed Brooks Conrad, minor league contract.

December 5, 2008: Signed David Ross, 2 yrs/$3 million.

December 19, 2008 Signed Greg Norton, 1 yr/$800K

January 13, 2009: Signed Derek Lowe, 4 yrs/$60 million

January 13, 2009: Signed Kenshin Kawakami, 3 yrs/$23 million.

February 20, 2009: Signed Tom Glavine, 1 yr/$1 million

February 24, 2009: Signed Garret Anderson, 1 yr/$2.5 million

December 2, 2009: Signed Billy Wagner, 1 yr/$6.25 million plus option

December 3, 2009: Signed Takashi Saito, 1 yr/$3.2 million.

January 5, 2010: Signed Troy Glaus, 1 yr/$1.75 million plus incentives

January 5, 2010: Signed Eric Hinske, 1 yr/$1 million

SIGNIFICANT BRAVES FREE AGENTS NOT RE-SIGNED:

2008: Ron Mahay, Andruw Jones, Octavio Dotel, Willie Harris

2009: Wil Ohman, John Smoltz, Mike Hampton

2010: Mike Gonzalez, Rafael Soriano, Garret Anderson, Adam LaRoche, Greg Norton, Jorge Campillo, Ryan Church (non-tendered), Kelly Johnson (non-tendered)

WAIVER TRANSACTIONS:

November 20, 2008: Selected Eric O'Flaherty off waivers from the Seattle Mariners.

What did I say that was wrong other then Teixeira. You should edit what you wrote because everything you listed, I said.

Edited May 8, 2010 by #1 pick

[#1 pick]

Well, I guess I get to play the "apologetic" role again.

First of all, Frank Wren did not make the trade for Mark Teixeira, so you're already wrong on that point. He also traded for Greg Norton in 2008, who happened to be the majors best pinch hitter (and top pinch hit HR hitter) that year. As for Andruw Jones, the guy was coming off one his worst seasons as a major leaguer and was going to command upwards up $12m. Correct move. Jeff Francoeur was traded for Ryan Church, yet you have one listed as a terrible trade and one listed as a guy he did not re-sign.....can't have it both ways. Francoeur, despite his hot start to the season, is back to his usual hitting ways with an OBP of .325 and and OPS under .800, which is terrible for a RF. Kelly Johnson was also coming off a season where he just absolutely sucked. No if, and's, or but's about it. He sucked. The "Melky Cabrera" trade wasn't even for Melky Cabrera as quite a few have mentioned on this forum, but for the young stud SP prospect Arodys Vizcaino and Mike Dunn.

You can't read, I said trade or didn't resign. Norton was a bust in Atlanta. Jones had a bad year true, but when he was back in form a couple of years later, we didn't sign him. Kelly had talent, that was never the issue. His problem was mental and we all see that it's not a problem anymore. As stated previously, until Vizcaino is in the majors, that trade was awful. Don't try to make sense out of s*** that doesn't make sense. He's not even in the top 3 of our farm system and is years away from the majors in projections. I remember when Kyle Davies was suppose to be the next Glavine :ph34r: . You fail at the "apologetic" role my friend. Don't write a paragraph downplaying me when you do not have your s*** together. That's a one way ticket to GTFOH Avenue.

Edited May 8, 2010 by #1 pick

[K26dp]

What did I say that was wrong other then Teixeira. You should edit what you wrote because everything you listed, I said.

Nothing, you just didn't mention everything (good and bad). Just wanted to get the actual facts out before the conversation moved on.

[R.C. Collins]

You can't read, I said trade or didn't resign. Norton was a bust in Atlanta. Jones had a bad year true, but when he was back in form a couple of years later, we didn't sign him. Kelly had talent, that was never the issue. His problem was mental and we all see that it's not a problem anymore. As stated previously, until Vizcaino is in the majors, that trade was awful. Don't try to make sense out of s*** that doesn't make sense. He's not even in the top 3 of our farm system and is years away from the majors in projections. I remember when Kyle Davies was suppose to be the next Glavine :ph34r: . You fail at the "apologetic" role my friend. Don't write a paragraph downplaying me when you do not have your s*** together. That's a one way ticket to GTFOH Avenue.

I can't take your posts serious without your REALLY cool and creative and hilarious nicknames that you give people. I mean WOW you really have a sharp wit.

Boooo.

Edited May 8, 2010 by R.C. Collins

[K26dp]

Norton was a bust in Atlanta. Incorrect. Norton went .246/.361/.427 and was the top pinch hitter in the game in 2008. When the Braves re-signed him for 2009, no one -- not Wren, not Bobby, and certainly not the fans -- could have anticipated how badly he would crash in 2009. In any case 202 good PAs in 2008 > 97 bad PAs in 2009.

Jones had a bad year true, but when he was back in form a couple of years later, we didn't sign him. Like it or not, the Braves have a budget. The Braves couldn't nor shouldn't have signed Jones to the $15 million contract the Dodgers game him (and immediately regretted). His performance in Texas in 2008 wasn't anything special either. It's to Jones' credit that he's doing well in Chicago now, but re-signing him would have been more of an act of nostalgia than real baseball sense.

Kelly had talent, that was never the issue. His problem was mental and we all see that it's not a problem anymore. I'm probably a bigger KJ fan than anyone else on the boards, but you're trying to re-write history. Prado simply beat Johnson out for the job, and KJ had been too inconsistent to entrust with left field. To keep him, the Braves would have had to go to arbitration with him, which would have resulted in a contract between $3-4 million, which is too much to pay for a bench player.

As stated previously, until Vizcaino is in the majors, that trade was awful. Don't try to make sense out of s*** that doesn't make sense. He's not even in the top 3 of our farm system and is years away from the majors in projections. The trade isn't awful, it's too early to judge. And yes, Vizcaino is usually listed as the #2 or #3 prospect in our system now, either just ahead or just behind Julio Teheran. We also received Mike Dunn, who grades out as a better relief prospect than Boone Logan. Finally, there's the payroll question. After the Braves re-signed Hudson, one of Lowe or Vazquez had to go. Obviously all things being equal, Lowe leaving would have been preferred, but there wasn't a trade to be had. So we traded Vazquez, got what should be a useful 4th outfielder, arguably the best starting pitching prospect in the Yankees' system, and a strong left-handed pitching prospect. Like I said, it's to early to tell, but the potential is there for the trade to actually be a steal for the Braves. Also, if you kill Wren for trading Vazquez, don't you have to give him credit for trading for him in the first place?

You fail at the "apologetic" role my friend. Don't write a paragraph downplaying me when you do not have your s*** together. That's a one way ticket to GTFOH Avenue. You're not doing a very good job making your points either.

And I don't necessarily disagree with you, BTW. I'm starting to think that a house cleaning after this season may be in order. But so far the items you're using as examples aren't good ones.

[Ransack]

Can't blame it all on Wren. He's made some wise moves and some dumb ones but the real problem is that he's inherited a gutted farm system. Schuerholtz cleaned it out in the Tex trade and left us with few precious bargaining chips to go get players that could help us over the long term. Now you add in top prospects who didn't pan out like Davies, Francouer, Etc.... and you now have this hodgepodge lineup where we're plugging holes with rent a players rather than prospects. Also the scouting department needs to get it's **** together as well. Our position players in the minors suck and they really need to change how they evaluate those positions. To much focus on toolsy project type players and not enough focus on guys who actually produce.

[ATLBrave]

You can't read, I said trade or didn't resign. Norton was a bust in Atlanta. Jones had a bad year true, but when he was back in form a couple of years later, we didn't sign him. Kelly had talent, that was never the issue. His problem was mental and we all see that it's not a problem anymore. As stated previously, until Vizcaino is in the majors, that trade was awful. Don't try to make sense out of s*** that doesn't make sense. He's not even in the top 3 of our farm system and is years away from the majors in projections. I remember when Kyle Davies was suppose to be the next Glavine :ph34r: . You fail at the "apologetic" role my friend. Don't write a paragraph downplaying me when you do not have your s*** together. That's a one way ticket to GTFOH Avenue.

I don't have my **** together? How so? ...I'm just curious. Nothing I said was wrong. K26dp also added the nice little snippet about the payroll when it comes to Vazquez. I'm not gonna respond with anything else here since he also covered all of the other fallacies in your argument, so I'll leave it at that.

[ATLBrave]

Can't blame it all on Wren. He's made some wise moves and some dumb ones but the real problem is that he's inherited a gutted farm system. Schuerholtz cleaned it out in the Tex trade and left us with few precious bargaining chips to go get players that could help us over the long term. Now you add in top prospects who didn't pan out like Davies, Francouer, Etc.... and you now have this hodgepodge lineup where we're plugging holes with rent a players rather than prospects. Also the scouting department needs to get it's **** together as well. Our position players in the minors suck and they really need to change how they evaluate those positions. To much focus on toolsy project type players and not enough focus on guys who actually produce.

Gotta agree with the lack of minor league hitting depth. Outside of Heyward and Freeman, it gets pretty bare. Schafer looks like a good player, but he needs to get over that wrist injury first. We've got some real young guys down in rookie, low-A, and A-ball that have some promise, but those guys are about 3-4 years away, so can't expect anything out of them soon. Need to get some depth in that department pretty soon.

[Warrior999]

I like Wren and think he has done a fine job. His only real mistakes was handing Lowe his contract. He was burn left and right. Boras had him right to left and took old Wren to school.

Then re-signing Chipper. He panic in this one because everyone was on their soapbox about us losing Smoltz. He did this deal to silence an overreacting fanbase that let their emotions get the best of them. Smoltz was finish. Now those same people are regretting the Chipper deal.

[#1 pick]

Norton was a bust in Atlanta. Incorrect. Norton went .246/.361/.427 and was the top pinch hitter in the game in 2008. When the Braves re-signed him for 2009, no one -- not Wren, not Bobby, and certainly not the fans -- could have anticipated how badly he would crash in 2009. In any case 202 good PAs in 2008 > 97 bad PAs in 2009.

Jones had a bad year true, but when he was back in form a couple of years later, we didn't sign him. Like it or not, the Braves have a budget. The Braves couldn't nor shouldn't have signed Jones to the $15 million contract the Dodgers game him (and immediately regretted). His performance in Texas in 2008 wasn't anything special either. It's to Jones' credit that he's doing well in Chicago now, but re-signing him would have been more of an act of nostalgia than real baseball sense.

Kelly had talent, that was never the issue. His problem was mental and we all see that it's not a problem anymore. I'm probably a bigger KJ fan than anyone else on the boards, but you're trying to re-write history. Prado simply beat Johnson out for the job, and KJ had been too inconsistent to entrust with left field. To keep him, the Braves would have had to go to arbitration with him, which would have resulted in a contract between $3-4 million, which is too much to pay for a bench player.

As stated previously, until Vizcaino is in the majors, that trade was awful. Don't try to make sense out of s*** that doesn't make sense. He's not even in the top 3 of our farm system and is years away from the majors in projections. The trade isn't awful, it's too early to judge. And yes, Vizcaino is usually listed as the #2 or #3 prospect in our system now, either just ahead or just behind Julio Teheran. We also received Mike Dunn, who grades out as a better relief prospect than Boone Logan. Finally, there's the payroll question. After the Braves re-signed Hudson, one of Lowe or Vazquez had to go. Obviously all things being equal, Lowe leaving would have been preferred, but there wasn't a trade to be had. So we traded Vazquez, got what should be a useful 4th outfielder, arguably the best starting pitching prospect in the Yankees' system, and a strong left-handed pitching prospect. Like I said, it's to early to tell, but the potential is there for the trade to actually be a steal for the Braves. Also, if you kill Wren for trading Vazquez, don't you have to give him credit for trading for him in the first place?

You fail at the "apologetic" role my friend. Don't write a paragraph downplaying me when you do not have your s*** together. That's a one way ticket to GTFOH Avenue. You're not doing a very good job making your points either.

And I don't necessarily disagree with you, BTW. I'm starting to think that a house cleaning after this season may be in order. But so far the items you're using as examples aren't good ones.

I disagree with of most of this especially AV our 3rd best prospect but I respect your opinion. I felt like the guy I got into it with last night was just being disrespectful so I reacted negatively.

ATLBrave, Vaz was traded because of payroll but if we never sign Lowe to that dumb contract then he would still be in Atlanta and we would be a lot better as a team.

Edited May 8, 2010 by #1 pick

[#1 pick]

I like Wren and think he has done a fine job. His only real mistakes was handing Lowe his contract. He was burn left and right. Boras had him right to left and took old Wren to school.

Then re-signing Chipper. He panic in this one because everyone was on their soapbox about us losing Smoltz. He did this deal to silence an overreacting fanbase that let their emotions get the best of them. Smoltz was finish. Now those same people are regretting the Chipper deal.

Agree, do you realize those and 1/3 of our payroll mistakes. I do not mind Ryan Church since he was traded for Frenchy and he wasn't cutting it in Atlanta. But Lowe and Chipper are major mistakes. Wren has a lot on this as well. Not just BC and TP.

[ATLBrave]

I disagree with of most of this especially AV our 3rd best prospect but I respect your opinion. I felt like the guy I got into it with last night was just being disrespectful so I reacted negatively.

ATLBrave, Vaz was traded because of payroll but if we never sign Lowe to that dumb contract then he would still be in Atlanta and we would be a lot better as a team.

I don't know how I was being disrespectful, but anyways. As for the signing of Lowe, while we overpaid for him, we absolutely had to have another starting pitcher at the time. Kevin Towers dicking around screwed up our offseason last year and got a break on some of the better pitchers on the market later than most teams. The other pitcher we went after, AJ Burnett, just simply took a better offer from the Yankees. After those two guys it was collectively thought that Lowe was the best out there, so it made sense to go after him. It's hindsight to say that the signing was a bad one since we had no way of knowing that Lowe would develop these mechanical problems and just flat out suck. The guy was coming off a great year (3.24 ERA, 1.13 WHIP and had 3 good seasons in a row prior to that one).

[USAF HART]

The common denominator in all of this bickering is the under production of our hitters. Let's start with the firing of TP and see what happens then. I don't think Wren is doing a fantastic job, but nothing he has done has warranted a firing of him. If we could bring in a hitting coach who knew what they were doing, we could be looking at a very potent line up. McClouth was very good in Pittsburgh before he came to us. Laroche was solid before he came to us. Fire TP!!

[sdogg]

The common denominator in all of this bickering is the under production of our hitters. Let's start with the firing of TP and see what happens then. I don't think Wren is doing a fantastic job, but nothing he has done has warranted a firing of him. If we could bring in a hitting coach who knew what they were doing, we could be looking at a very potent line up. McClouth was very good in Pittsburgh before he came to us. Laroche was solid before he came to us. Fire TP!!

This^^, I can agree with.

[mookie3127]

to quote a few others on the board.....

[USAF HART]

K, I might be ******** because I never watched much of the Simpsons, but what exactly is that gif implying?

[ATLBrave]

K, I might be ******** because I never watched much of the Simpsons, but what exactly is that gif implying?

Nothing to see here.

[USAF HART]

OOOOHHHHH....hahaha..it makes sense now.

[mookie3127]

K, I might be ******** because I never watched much of the Simpsons, but what exactly is that gif implying?

the .gif is Grandpa/Abe Simpson walking into a burlesque house where Bart is working off a debt to the owner for damaging something earlier in the episode. hence why Grandpa walks in, sees Bart, and then leaves.

the gist is i enter the thread, see that there's nothing good about the thread, and then leave.