atljbo Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 During the beginning offseason i was really missing that 2nd round pick... I still felt like Tony G was better then any 2nd round pick we could get... Michael Lombardi said as a GM... When you trade a pick for a player.... You are really comparing the player the other team get with that pick against the player you traded for....KC took Javier Arenas with our pick... I'm not going to dog out areana because he is good at what he does... The guy is a NB and a KR/PR.Tony G was well worth that trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dem Birds Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 During the beginning offseason i was really missing that 2nd round pick... I still felt like Tony G was better then any 2nd round pick we could get... Michael Lombardi said as a GM... When you trade a pick for a player.... You are really comparing the player the other team get with that pick against the player you traded for....KC took Javier Arenas with our pick... I'm not going to dog out areana because he is good at what he does... The guy is a NB and a KR/PR.Tony G was well worth that trade.I don't agree with that logic though. If that had been our pick we would have picked someone else.But I'm sure Tony Gonzalez would have been better than them as well, so yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUB Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 I don't agree with that logic though. If that had been our pick we would have picked someone else.But I'm sure Tony Gonzalez would have been better than them as well, so yeah.Well you use the same logic. Who in this draft could be considered better than TG(@ a 2nd round value)?The answer would have to be no one at this point. If you look back in 5 to 10 years though the answer could change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atljbo Posted May 2, 2010 Author Share Posted May 2, 2010 I don't agree with that logic though. If that had been our pick we would have picked someone else.But I'm sure Tony Gonzalez would have been better than them as well, so yeah.I understand what you are saying but in the way the GM's think... Its the most logical way of thinking... You cant compare Tony G with every player picked after our 2nd round pick... It was over 200 dudes picked....All you can compare him to is the guy that was picked with the traded draft pick...Because if we didnt get Tony G... Its a good chance we would have drafted Gresham but now we dont have spoon... Thats alot of craziness...Comparing the player to the draft pick is the simple logical way... Thats why they said its no way that the Eagles would have traded the 37th pick (Nate Allen) .... That pick would be linked with the McNabb trade forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOKER2 Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 We would not have picked Javier Arenas that was KC's need, we would have picke the best DE availabe. I don't have the second round tracker in front of me, nor do I remember but if you looke at the DE picked after KC picked Arenas, more than likely that would have been our pick.Anyone know who it was off hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOKER2 Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 Carlos Dunlap is who I believe we would have taken at that point. I don't think we would have taken Jermaine Cunningham who was taken right in front of him after Arenas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-dawg Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 (edited) I understand what you are saying but in the way the GM's think... Its the most logical way of thinking... You cant compare Tony G with every player picked after our 2nd round pick... It was over 200 dudes picked....All you can compare him to is the guy that was picked with the traded draft pick...Because if we didnt get Tony G... Its a good chance we would have drafted Gresham but now we dont have spoon... Thats alot of craziness...Comparing the player to the draft pick is the simple logical way... Thats why they said its no way that the Eagles would have traded the 37th pick (Nate Allen) .... That pick would be linked with the McNabb trade forever.disagree w/ Lombardi's analysis here to, jbo. I think you compare Tony G. to the 3-4 top players at need positions that you think Dimitroff might would have wanted at the traded pick to KC - #2-50. Obviously we will never know for sure who Falcons might would have taken....here are a few guesses: Players Falcons might would have picked at #2-50 if not traded to KC for Gonzo JD Walton, OC-Baylor (I think this would have been the pick as he was their #2 center)Jermaine Cunningham, DE-Florida (Pats took him at #53 albeit as OLB in 3-4)Jared Veldheer, OT-Hillsdale (doubt they would have taken him but he fits the profile)Carlos Dunlap, DE-Florida (probably pass on him due to inconsistencies)these are all players that went off the board between #2-50 and #3-82 before Falcons picked again at #3-83 Edited May 2, 2010 by g-dawg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlazerHarvard Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 It's not just, "Tony Gonzalez is better than _____."The thing that you have to factor in is that we will probably only have TG for this season and he's done. On the other hand, it's not a "for-sure" thing that our 2nd round pick would have ever been productive---he could have been a total flop (think Jimmy Williams).As I've said before, if we go deep into the playoffs or even win one playoff game, I think the trade was worth it.If we don't make the playoffs or if we get beat in the first round, then I don't think it'd be worth it because we would've been trading away the "long run" for the "short run" with no real reward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-dawg Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 It's not just, "Tony Gonzalez is better than _____."The thing that you have to factor in is that we will probably only have TG for this season and he's done. On the other hand, it's not a "for-sure" thing that our 2nd round pick would have ever been productive---he could have been a total flop (think Jimmy Williams).As I've said before, if we go deep into the playoffs or even win one playoff game, I think the trade was worth it.If we don't make the playoffs or if we get beat in the first round, then I don't think it'd be worth it because we would've been trading away the "long run" for the "short run" with no real reward.---> fair points Blazer makes...agree w/ this^^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atljbo Posted May 2, 2010 Author Share Posted May 2, 2010 disagree w/ Lombardi's analysis here to, jbo. I think you compare Tony G. to the 3-4 top players at need positions that you think Dimitroff might would have wanted at the traded pick to KC - #2-50. Obviously we will never know for sure who Falcons might would have taken....here are a few guesses: Players Falcons might would have picked at #2-50 if not traded to KC for Gonzo JD Walton, OC-Baylor (I think this would have been the pick as he was their #2 center)Jermaine Cunningham, DE-Florida (Pats took him at #53 albeit as OLB in 3-4)Jared Veldheer, OT-Hillsdale (doubt they would have taken him but he fits the profile)Carlos Dunlap, DE-Florida (probably pass on him due to inconsistencies)these are all players that went off the board between #2-50 and #3-82 before Falcons picked again at #3-83To me thats not realistic.... Because you dont know who we would have picked... Veldheer can turn out to be an hall of fame OT but he may have never been on TD's radar in the 2nd round..Thats like saying... Somebody in this room stole my money.... 5 ppl was in here when i left so ima fight all 5 of these dudes..lol... 4 dudes you beat up is innocent.... Just like 3 of the 4 dudes (maybe all 4) you name wouldnt have been picked.... Also some Falcons fans felt like TD reached on allot of picks.. So TD may have took a guy that you thought was a 3rd or 4th round talent (but was a 2nd round in his eyes)...I get what you are saying tho..... I also get what Michael Lombardi .... The Gm's way of thinking is simpler ...Regardless Tony G was better for this team then any 2nd rounder we could have got. (as long as we atleast get 2 more years from Tony G) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 It's not just, "Tony Gonzalez is better than _____."The thing that you have to factor in is that we will probably only have TG for this season and he's done. On the other hand, it's not a "for-sure" thing that our 2nd round pick would have ever been productive---he could have been a total flop (think Jimmy Williams).As I've said before, if we go deep into the playoffs or even win one playoff game, I think the trade was worth it.If we don't make the playoffs or if we get beat in the first round, then I don't think it'd be worth it because we would've been trading away the "long run" for the "short run" with no real reward. +1 BlazerFalcon, That has been my contantion all along. I opened a thread up about this a couple of months ago and got hosed for it. But as much as we all like Tony, in fact he has become sort of a sacred cow with some, the bottom line is we have to make a run in the playoffs with Tony here for this trade to pay off (does not matter who you conjecture we would have gotten). If I were GM I would have probably made the trade, because I think we were ready to make a run last year. But, you have to be careful when trading away high picks, I do not know what the odds are but I would say they are against getting the better part of the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1989Fan Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 this is a 2nd round TD pick though, so I am sure he would have been a starter.Still like the Gonzo trade though. We wouldnt have broke that awful streak without it, lets not forget that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MashDaddy Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 Tony G is well worth the 2nd rounder.....The guy is a big piece of the puzzle reguardless of who they drafted we got the better deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyBirdSupabowl Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 Thats not a good way to look at it, its true we could have found a player that was a total bust but I am sure TD wasnt going to use that pick on Arenas. There are so many other needs we could have filled and who knows he might have found another Curtis Lofton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atljbo Posted May 2, 2010 Author Share Posted May 2, 2010 Thats not a good way to look at it, its true we could have found a player that was a total bust but I am sure TD wasnt going to use that pick on Arenas. There are so many other needs we could have filled and who knows he might have found another Curtis Lofton.You guys are looking at it the wrong way..... He is not saying "What If" .... The trade was made ... Thats done....You can only compare the player to the player that was drafted...You cant "What if" we didnt do the trade... Thats done... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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