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Does God really exist?


Nono
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I now how important and fundamental religion is for most people, but I ask "does God exist?" is religion and the bible real?, or perhaps a translated book that was created by scholars and profits during the Roman era.

Where is the "real" evidence? I mean how is that dinosaurs existed in the bible and how does their existence relate to Adam and Eve and how do you explain a 10 million year cro magnon ape/man skull? Do we really think that God flooded the world killing all but a male and female of each species and they all existed together on an arc?

I would love to have the faith that so many people have, but its just so difficult with all the factual evidence that suggest evolution and science is the way this world and universe developed.

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I now how important and fundamental religion is for most people, but I ask "does God exist?" is religion and the bible real?, or perhaps a translated book that was created by scholars and profits during the Roman era.

Well, we can fix the first point right out of the gate -- there are actual transcripts of the Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic texts, and other historical writings reference these books. The Bible is a real book, and it is not a "translated book that was created by scholars and prophets during the Roman era" (whenever it is you think that was).

As to the rest, you seem to be pitting the existence of God against "science and evolution." I'm not sure that's not a false dichotomy in the first instance, and I'm not sure you haven't made up your mind already in the second.

But as to the Bible, it has been studied, historically and archeologically (i.e., the Dead Sea Scrolls, etc.). The Old Testament in use at the time of Christ (which I assume is part of your "Roman era") was a Greek translation, and the transcripts from that translation reach far back in history. It's definitely a real book that purports to be what Christians and Jews today understand it to be. Whether it IS that or not is something you will have to decide for yourself, but the historical existence of the Old and New Testaments is not a fabrication in any sense.

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Well, we can fix the first point right out of the gate -- there are actual transcripts of the Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic texts, and other historical writings reference these books. The Bible is a real book, and it is not a "translated book that was created by scholars and prophets during the Roman era" (whenever it is you think that was).

As to the rest, you seem to be pitting the existence of God against "science and evolution." I'm not sure that's not a false dichotomy in the first instance, and I'm not sure you haven't made up your mind already in the second.

But as to the Bible, it has been studied, historically and archeologically (i.e., the Dead Sea Scrolls, etc.). The Old Testament in use at the time of Christ (which I assume is part of your "Roman era") was a Greek translation, and the transcripts from that translation reach far back in history. It's definitely a real book that purports to be what Christians and Jews today understand it to be. Whether it IS that or not is something you will have to decide for yourself, but the historical existence of the Old and New Testaments is not a fabrication in any sense.

Thats funny you mention the Dead Sea Scrolls---I too studied the bible for years with different groups of people and me being a factual kind of person found it difficult to graspe the complete lack of evidence that many civilizations exising prior to the time of Jesus have created plenty of archives. You would think that a man so important to all of mankind would have left us with some shred of physical objects. The only thing that in all of my studies was mention of a shroud and the Dead Sea Schrolls.

You completely side stepped my topic of ape/man and the dinosaurs and I understand why, I wish you well with your beliefs. I am truly envious of your faith.

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Thats funny you mention the Dead Sea Scrolls---I too studied the bible for years with different groups of people and me being a factual kind of person found it difficult to graspe the complete lack of evidence that many civilizations exising prior to the time of Jesus have created plenty of archives. You would think that a man so important to all of mankind would have left us with some shred of physical objects. The only thing that in all of my studies was mention of a shroud and the Dead Sea Schrolls.

What kind of physical objects would you expect?

Is your inquiry solely related to Christianity? If so, why did you ask if God really exists as opposed to asking questions about Jesus?

Do you disbelieve Jesus of Nazareth as an historical individual?

You completely side stepped my topic of ape/man and the dinosaurs and I understand why, I wish you well with your beliefs. I am truly envious of your faith.

I didn't side step it. In fact, if you read my response carefully, I said you were attempting to create a false dichotomy.

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A personal god that grants wishes and picks out certain people to bless does not exist. To think so is delusional.

The notion that the Christian God, at least, exists to "grant wishes and pick out certain people to bless" is fallacious. You have created a strawman. I will concede, from a Christian standpoint, that such a "god" doesn't exist.

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What kind of physical objects would you expect?

Is your inquiry solely related to Christianity? If so, why did you ask if God really exists as opposed to asking questions about Jesus?

Do you disbelieve Jesus of Nazareth as an historical individual?

I didn't side step it. In fact, if you read my response carefully, I said you were attempting to create a false dichotomy.

JDaveG I don't to make an enemy of you---Let me say we are friends and both like the Falcons

God and Jesus are intechangible if they are truly father and son so there is problem using either as a basis to expect facts---for all I know and I do believe that there was a man who called himself Jesus of Nazareth. Did he preform miracles?, well you can believe what you. You have your bible and beliefs and I have my thoughts.

You can not rationize nor debate dinosaurs or the artifacts of evolution that exist in museums around the world so I will end my discussion with you and remain a friend in Falcon nation---I was simply looking for answers and not "smoke screens"

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A personal god that grants wishes and picks out certain people to bless does not exist. To think so is delusional.

+1 cali_fan420

I ask you as a person who wants to understand---why is there religion then? Why is there a church on almost every corner if there is doubt about the existence of God

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JDaveG I don't to make an enemy of you---Let me say we are friends and both like the Falcons

God and Jesus are intechangible if they are truly father and son so there is problem using either as a basis to expect facts---for all I know and I do believe that there was a man who called himself Jesus of Nazareth. Did he preform miracles?, well you can believe what you. You have your bible and beliefs and I have my thoughts.

I'm not trying to make enemies either -- I was sincerely asking the questions.

The reason I asked if you believe He existed is that a lot of people believe Jesus was a myth. If you don't believe He even existed, I'm not sure we can have any sort of rational conversation, because frankly I think the evidence for His existence is enormous.

The reason I asked what kinds of physical objects you would expect to find is that He was not a man of means -- He was not rich, He was not powerful, and in fact He was pretty much destitute. That doesn't square too well with leaving relics behind. Further, the things one would expect to be left behind (wood, clothing, etc.) are likely to deteriorate. The Shroud of Turin is interesting in that while it is hard to believe a 2000 year old cloth survived intact, it is really harder to believe that someone in the middle ages is capable of forging such a shroud with human blood (which the Shroud undoubtedly contains) and with the flagella marks and spear marks and evidence of crucifixion intact. The carbon dating that was done in the '80s is problematic (and this is shown by both pro-forgery scholars and pro-authenticity scholars), in that the portion that was dated was from a section of the Shroud that we know for a fact was widely handled and therefore likely contaminated. You literally could not have picked a worse place to draw the sample.

Is it real? No one knows. I really don't care. But the point is that unless you find a nail from the Holy Cross and can PROVE it is from the Cross, I'm not sure what other types of physical evidence one would expect to survive 2000 years. It's not like Jesus left a crown and a pot of gold and a metal chest to carry them all in. He was basically homeless.

You can not rationize nor debate dinosaurs or the artifacts of evolution that exist in museums around the world so I will end my discussion with you and remain a friend in Falcon nation---I was simply looking for answers and not "smoke screens"

I'm not sure where I've put up a smoke screen, and frankly I'm not sure where I "rationalized" or "debated" dinosaurs or the "artifacts of evolution," whatever those are. I'm not trying to get ugly with you -- I'm honestly trying to answer your question.

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Do you really think you're going to get answers from a football message board on this subject?

seems like there a few who believe that the Falcons will make the supebowl---so answering the God question isn't that far fetched

besides I am certain a lot of people have a stronger faith than I and wondered why

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I have a question (and no, it's not a baited question... those are lame... especially here).

How do you create matter out of nothing?

Where did matter come from?

P.S., as an aside note, not all Christians believe that the universe was created ex nihilo per Genesis. Put another way, some Christians (and I think I include myself among them) have the same problem as everyone else explaining where matter originated.

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Where did matter come from?

Another good question.

(Keeping it simple for now)

Einstein's theory of relativity/conservation of energy: Energy cannot be created or destroyed; only transformed.

That leads us to the big bang.

I'm debating whether or not to read up on Stephen Hawking but pre-big bang theory does intrigue me. Too bad I don't here it quoted/discussed much.

---------------

True Dave. That applies to many religions (Jews as well).

Unfortunately, it is like politics. People will not discuss issues without taking themselves/affiliations out of the equation for objectivity. Their beliefs (or non-beliefs) put up blinders.

We'll see how it goes here.

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I now how important and fundamental religion is for most people, but I ask "does God exist?" is religion and the bible real?, or perhaps a translated book that was created by scholars and profits during the Roman era.

Where is the "real" evidence? I mean how is that dinosaurs existed in the bible and how does their existence relate to Adam and Eve and how do you explain a 10 million year cro magnon ape/man skull? Do we really think that God flooded the world killing all but a male and female of each species and they all existed together on an arc?

I would love to have the faith that so many people have, but its just so difficult with all the factual evidence that suggest evolution and science is the way this world and universe developed.

I put limited faith into the Bible, seeing as how I have no doubt that it's been twisted through numerous translations and the periods of which it was kept under control and manipulated by few to control the masses.

Dinosaurs were mentioned in the Bible. Behemoths were what they were called. Adam and Eve weren't the first people in a literal sense, see the Sixth day of creation. At the very least, they weren't the only humans alive after they were created.

Evolution/science aren't mutually exclusive from any divine being. Could there be a divine being that created the universe through the Big Bang? Is it any more ridiculous to suggest the universe created itself? I don't think so.

I choose to believe in God, and I haven't been given any reason to believe that I am wrong or that God cannot exist. Is it the "scientific" way? Not really, but that's not what it is about.

Creating this topic though is asking for a lot of mud slinging. I'm waiting for Cali420 to call all religious people stupid/weak, tell about how he shreds holiday cards without even reading them from friends/family, and claim that Christians support pedophilia.

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