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The Braves are a Bad Team


Guest Gritz
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Guest Gritz

Good or even average baseball teams rarely go on the type of losing streaks that the Braves are currently in the midst of.....But beyond the day-to-day struggles of individual players, I think an organizational malaise has infected the Braves.....and is the reason why they have been disappointing for the last several years and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future.

When Turner owned the Braves and JS was the general manager the Braves would fill a vacuum on the team by going out and attracting the best (or near best) available FA to fill that vacuum.....Greg Maddux, Terry Pendleton, Fred McGriff, Gary Sheffield...etc..

Now, perhaps after getting burned on the Wainwright to the Cards and Salty to the Texans deals the current ownership and Wren try to do all of their free agent shopping at Costco. If you go free agent shopping at Costco you're going to get Costco-quality free agents.

The thing that is frustrating right now and more than likely will continue to be throughout the summer is that the Braves have gotten parts of this equation correct. The starting pitching and bullpen is solid enough for this team to contend......But when you say that you have bought your big free agent bat when you bring in a retread like Troy Glaus you are setting yourself and your fans up for failure.

I know some posters are going to come in here and pick apart this thread/post with stats and numbers, ideas that will refute the things I have stated above....and that's cool. I'm not a "Bill James baseball mathematician" type of fan. Like a lot of fans I probably only see the big picture things that start to look obvious after a while.

This current lineup is offensively abysmal. Liberty (by proxy) and Wren took a calculated, low-pay, low-impact gamble and it isn't working.

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Good or even average baseball teams rarely go on the type of losing streaks that the Braves are currently in the midst of.....But beyond the day-to-day struggles of individual players, I think an organizational malaise has infected the Braves.....and is the reason why they have been disappointing for the last several years and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future.

When Turner owned the Braves and JS was the general manager the Braves would fill a vacuum on the team by going out and attracting the best (or near best) available FA to fill that vacuum.....Greg Maddux, Terry Pendleton, Fred McGriff, Gary Sheffield...etc..

Now, perhaps after getting burned on the Wainwright to the Cards and Salty to the Texans deals the current ownership and Wren try to do all of their free agent shopping at Costco. If you go free agent shopping at Costco you're going to get Costco-quality free agents.

The thing that is frustrating right now and more than likely will continue to be throughout the summer is that the Braves have gotten parts of this equation correct. The starting pitching and bullpen is solid enough for this team to contend......But when you say that you have bought your big free agent bat when you bring in a retread like Troy Glaus you are setting yourself and your fans up for failure.

I know some posters are going to come in here and pick apart this thread/post with stats and numbers, ideas that will refute the things I have stated above....and that's cool. I'm not a "Bill James baseball mathematician" type of fan. Like a lot of fans I probably only see the big picture things that start to look obvious after a while.

This current lineup is offensively abysmal. Liberty (by proxy) and Wren took a calculated, low-pay, low-impact gamble and it isn't working.

Well you get a +1 from me. Well said and very much true. Especially on the last part in red.

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The thing that is frustrating right now and more than likely will continue to be throughout the summer is that the Braves have gotten parts of this equation correct. The starting pitching and bullpen is solid enough for this team to contend......But when you say that you have bought your big free agent bat when you bring in a retread like Troy Glaus you are setting yourself and your fans up for failure.

I was so disappointed when this was the "big bat" they were referring to, when we traded Vaz to free up money. That was a slap in the face to us fans and to Cox in his last season.

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Guest Gritz

its like buying a store brand of chips and wondering why the arent as good

I love that analogy.....Funny and frighteningly on the mark also......

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The 2005 Astros started out 15-30 yet they managed to claw their way back and win the WC. So there is still hope.

No one is doubting that. The Braves have done it before(10 games behind LA, late in the year of 93 I believe). But, like you said, you must claw your way out and other teams have to start playing poorly. The deeper the hole you dig now, the harder it is to claw out of later in the season.

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Stros also made a move to get Beltran which really helped their case. They caught lightening in a bottle with Beltran going berserk that 2nd half of the season and into the playoffs. Before anyone even suggest it. The price tag to get Gonzo will be 10x aka Tex type what the Stros had to give up for Beltran.

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Stros also made a move to get Beltran which really helped their case. They caught lightening in a bottle with Beltran going berserk that 2nd half of the season and into the playoffs. Before anyone even suggest it. The price tag to get Gonzo will be 10x aka Tex type what the Stros had to give up for Beltran.

Yes he did. Like I've said, the deeper the hole you dig in the 1st half, the more you have to have things go your way in the 2nd half, to claw your way out. There is no excuse for this team to be playing this bad. Its not like we are getting blown out. All they have to do is play slightly better and we will start winning. So many RISP we are leaving on the field. Someone has to step up and get hot.

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As long as the Braves don't have a real owner, this team is digging itself deeper in their grave. A once powerful clubhouse, now a laughing stock of the MLB.

i would say are a laughing stock at the current moment with the losing streak, but i would say they are just a mediocre team that could be great when they arent on such a losing streak.

i think bobby cox knows personally that we need that big power home run hitter, but there isn't much he can do.

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i would say are a laughing stock at the current moment with the losing streak, but i would say they are just a mediocre team that could be great when they arent on such a losing streak.

i think bobby cox knows personally that we need that big power home run hitter, but there isn't much he can do.

If we had a real owner, we would of got a power bat instead of signing average "power" bats.

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i would say are a laughing stock at the current moment with the losing streak, but i would say they are just a mediocre team that could be great when they arent on such a losing streak.

i think bobby cox knows personally that we need that big power home run hitter, but there isn't much he can do.

Well said! +1

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as a FSU fan, I feel that over the years, i've watched 2 different Bobby's lead their teams to great success and then see them start to falter and collapse. at FSU, they tried replacing the coaches only to see some slight improvement here and there, but things quickly tanked again. now that coach Bowden is no longer in the picture, the vibe feels completely different. there seems to be a "swagger" back in the air at Tallahassee. we went from a decent at best recruiting class to, i believe, a top 10 recruiting class once Bowden was gone. don't get me wrong, Bowden was a great coach, built the Seminoles football program, and deserved to go out on his own terms. his downside is that when other teams adjusted to his style of play, he failed to make the adjustments on his end and after replacing coach after coach didn't work, coach Bowden was, unfortunately, forced out.

now then....with the Brave's, i see some similarities in that other teams have adjusted and we have not and players have shown improvement only to start tanking again. i do agree that TP is part of the problem (or at least offensively), but i am really starting to feel that Bobby isn't doing as much to get this team prepared the way they should be. the only positive is that Bobby is being allowed to go out on his terms. a HOF coach or not, something needs to change and i think this could be the start of things to come. Bobby's style of ball worked great in the 90's, but i'm really having a hard time figuring out what exactly he's doing in the dug out. there are times that it looks like he's playing small ball and times where it looks like he's sitting back waiting for that 3 run HR that's never going to come. things at the Ted are really just mind boggling. we keep hearing that Mr. Positivity is in TP's corner and that he's oh so pleased with the slightest of improvements from his players. positivity is great, but production is better.......

in the end, we've got a solid pitching staff, IMO. our offense has the potential to be among the worst in the league. we've got so much potential on this team that looks as if it's being wasted. some have mentioned how great Andruw, KJ, and Frenchy are doing now that they're out of Atlanta, but i'm not too concerned about them......they're not on this team now. McClouth has .270/25/80/20+SB potential but we'll likely see .240-.250/15/50/15SB results. pitchers used to come to Atlanta to revitalize their careers.....now hitters come here to end theirs.......

ideally, Bobby hanging it up is a blessing in disguise, IMO. TP needs to go this off season also. some of the coaches who still follow the Bobby ball rules probably need to be shown the door as well. hopefully Chipper will have another down year, retire so that we can free up some money, and we can move Lowe this off season and afford to eat half of his contract. hopefully we can bring in a decent hitting coach and head coach that will light a fire under this team and get them off of their tails. then maybe, just maybe someone will make an offer to buy the braves since they've tanked so much and we can be back to winning in a couple of seasons.

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as a FSU fan, I feel that over the years, i've watched 2 different Bobby's lead their teams to great success and then see them start to falter and collapse. at FSU, they tried replacing the coaches only to see some slight improvement here and there, but things quickly tanked again. now that coach Bowden is no longer in the picture, the vibe feels completely different. there seems to be a "swagger" back in the air at Tallahassee. we went from a decent at best recruiting class to, i believe, a top 10 recruiting class once Bowden was gone. don't get me wrong, Bowden was a great coach, built the Seminoles football program, and deserved to go out on his own terms. his downside is that when other teams adjusted to his style of play, he failed to make the adjustments on his end and after replacing coach after coach didn't work, coach Bowden was, unfortunately, forced out.

now then....with the Brave's, i see some similarities in that other teams have adjusted and we have not and players have shown improvement only to start tanking again. i do agree that TP is part of the problem (or at least offensively), but i am really starting to feel that Bobby isn't doing as much to get this team prepared the way they should be. the only positive is that Bobby is being allowed to go out on his terms. a HOF coach or not, something needs to change and i think this could be the start of things to come. Bobby's style of ball worked great in the 90's, but i'm really having a hard time figuring out what exactly he's doing in the dug out. there are times that it looks like he's playing small ball and times where it looks like he's sitting back waiting for that 3 run HR that's never going to come. things at the Ted are really just mind boggling. we keep hearing that Mr. Positivity is in TP's corner and that he's oh so pleased with the slightest of improvements from his players. positivity is great, but production is better.......

in the end, we've got a solid pitching staff, IMO. our offense has the potential to be among the worst in the league. we've got so much potential on this team that looks as if it's being wasted. some have mentioned how great Andruw, KJ, and Frenchy are doing now that they're out of Atlanta, but i'm not too concerned about them......they're not on this team now. McClouth has .270/25/80/20+SB potential but we'll likely see .240-.250/15/50/15SB results. pitchers used to come to Atlanta to revitalize their careers.....now hitters come here to end theirs.......

ideally, Bobby hanging it up is a blessing in disguise, IMO. TP needs to go this off season also. some of the coaches who still follow the Bobby ball rules probably need to be shown the door as well. hopefully Chipper will have another down year, retire so that we can free up some money, and we can move Lowe this off season and afford to eat half of his contract. hopefully we can bring in a decent hitting coach and head coach that will light a fire under this team and get them off of their tails. then maybe, just maybe someone will make an offer to buy the braves since they've tanked so much and we can be back to winning in a couple of seasons.

I agree! We do need an injection of new blood. It doesn't guarantee things will get better, but there comes a time when a legend has to be replaced. Like you said, he did earn the right to leave on his terms. I just wish the players would dig down deep and do the best they can to send him out on top. It would be truly disappointing if we play like this, for most of the season. BC doesn't deserve that.

Edited by sdogg
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Liberty media is garbage and has been garbage ownership the entire time they have owned the Braves and it will not get any better. The organization cannot go after those really good free agents anymore because their hands are tied in because of ownership. Liberty media needs to sell this team before they completely destroy it and turn it into a completely mediocre team year after year that only slightly increases the bottom line.

Corporations like this should not be allowed to own teams.

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Guest Gritz

Liberty media is garbage and has been garbage ownership the entire time they have owned the Braves and it will not get any better. The organization cannot go after those really good free agents anymore because their hands are tied in because of ownership. Liberty media needs to sell this team before they completely destroy it and turn it into a completely mediocre team year after year that only slightly increases the bottom line.

Corporations like this should not be allowed to own teams.

All good points....Liberty doesn't care about this team at all. I think it's very rare when a corporately-owned team is "cared about."

I miss my old boss Ted.

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Good or even average baseball teams rarely go on the type of losing streaks that the Braves are currently in the midst of.....But beyond the day-to-day struggles of individual players, I think an organizational malaise has infected the Braves.....and is the reason why they have been disappointing for the last several years and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future.

When Turner owned the Braves and JS was the general manager the Braves would fill a vacuum on the team by going out and attracting the best (or near best) available FA to fill that vacuum.....Greg Maddux, Terry Pendleton, Fred McGriff, Gary Sheffield...etc..

Now, perhaps after getting burned on the Wainwright to the Cards and Salty to the Texans deals the current ownership and Wren try to do all of their free agent shopping at Costco. If you go free agent shopping at Costco you're going to get Costco-quality free agents.

The thing that is frustrating right now and more than likely will continue to be throughout the summer is that the Braves have gotten parts of this equation correct. The starting pitching and bullpen is solid enough for this team to contend......But when you say that you have bought your big free agent bat when you bring in a retread like Troy Glaus you are setting yourself and your fans up for failure.

I know some posters are going to come in here and pick apart this thread/post with stats and numbers, ideas that will refute the things I have stated above....and that's cool. I'm not a "Bill James baseball mathematician" type of fan. Like a lot of fans I probably only see the big picture things that start to look obvious after a while.

This current lineup is offensively abysmal. Liberty (by proxy) and Wren took a calculated, low-pay, low-impact gamble and it isn't working.

Good post as usual GB. The Braves are nothing but a farm team compared to the hated Yankees and Red Sox. Charging fans premium prices for a substandard product. Their ownership stinks, their GM Frank Wren stinks, and the whole franchise is in disarray which is sad. When Ted Turner sold the team to Time Warner it set the stage for the decline we are experiencing. We used to be the marquis franchise for free agents to come to play and now we can't get good players to come to Atlanta unless it is at gunpoint. Thanks to the chicanery of the pitiful GM we will trade away valuable players for nothing in return while trying to make people believe we made a good deal.

I have quit supporting this train wreck until there is a change of ownership and front office. I would rather support the minor league clubs like the Rome, Gwinnett, and Mississippi Braves (when they come to Chattanooga to play the Lookouts) instead.

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Liberty media is garbage and has been garbage ownership the entire time they have owned the Braves and it will not get any better. The organization cannot go after those really good free agents anymore because their hands are tied in because of ownership. Liberty media needs to sell this team before they completely destroy it and turn it into a completely mediocre team year after year that only slightly increases the bottom line.

Corporations like this should not be allowed to own teams.

It's not like we are the Marlins or Bucs.. our payroll is almost 100 million, how we spent it though is on the Braves not the Liberty Mutual. Can't keep throwing money at things and hope it produces. We have an upper-tier payroll playing bottom tier ball.

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It's not like we are the Marlins or Bucs.. our payroll is almost 100 million, how we spent it though is on the Braves not the Liberty Mutual. Can't keep throwing money at things and hope it produces. We have an upper-tier payroll playing bottom tier ball.

Bingo! Trust me, I'm not a big fan of LM, but its not like they are totally greedy with their money to the Braves. Wren just waste money on the hopes of aging players having one more year left in the tank.

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