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G-Dawg's post draft thoughts


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Yes, I watched the first two days in their entirety and just got updates on Saturday.....

I'm a little disappointed but don' t really want to be negative on the website I do believe in Thomas Dimitroff so I think this draft will turn out OK - I just wonder if it could have been better.

I would like someone to ask Dimitroff why Everson Griffen, DE-USC was not a consideration in the 3rd round - we had two chances to get him and passed on him both times. I understand the kid may have some maturity issues and inconsistency in his play - but unless there is a major character problem and/or drug use - I don't understand - Obviously there must have been something because 32 teams passed on him 3 times before the Vikings took him in 4th round.

Also was frustrated that Falcons did not draft Riley Cooper or some other WRs I thought would have had better chances to develop into starters over Kerry Meier. Meier sounds like a guy you want to have on your team but just think we could have taken a guy with enough upside to start.

I think Corey Peters might would have lasted until 4th round but Dimitroff says "no"......

Overall, I would give the draft a "B-" but I understand my limitations on knowledge versus Dimitroff/Smith and their scouts - there is no way we can know 10% of what they know...

Loved Sean Weatherspoon, Mike Johnson and Dominque Franks picks. I like Corey Peters but think he was overdrafted......If I pulled the strings, draft probably would have looked like this based on who was available:

G-Dawg's Post-Draft Draft (G-Dawg < Dimitroff :rolleyes: )

#1-019) Sean Weatherspoon, WLB-Missouri (good pick with Graham/Morgan off the board)

#3-083) Everson Griffen, DE-USC (instead of Corey Peters-even Greg Hardy was available in 6th)

#3-098) Mike Johnson, OG-Alabama (good pick by Dimitroff - was not on my radar though)

#4-117) Corey Peters, DT-Kentucky (if he was gone Geno Atkins was available)

#5-135) Perish Cox, CB-Oklahoma State (instead of Dominque Franks think Cox is just a better player)

#5-165) Joe Hawley, OC/OG-UNLV ( think he would have lasted this long, if not Ted Larsen,OC-NC State - Belicheck/Pats took him so Dimitroff probably liked him)

#6-171) Carlton Mitchell, WR-South Florida (more developmental than Meier but much, much higher upside - compares to Brandon Marshall)

Granted, I have "hindsight" of knowing where all the players went that Dimitroff did not have. While there must be some type of issue with Griffen I think he will mature as a man and hopefully as a football player as he gets pro coaching and works on his craft. He has great upside and skill and would have been worth the gamble.

I think Perrish Cox is more complete corner than Dominque Franks and I think we needed a WR with more upside that has the speed/size to eventually be a successor to Michael Jenkins who just is not really good enough to be a starter for a playoff team.

I feel like my above draft still captures the "spirit" of what Dimitroff was trying to do with this draft but also allowing for players (Griffen/Cox) with more upside than Meier, Shillinger, and Franks....

Anyway those are my thoughts

Edited by g-dawg
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Some of these questions have been answered. TD openly said he just didn't want Griffen in our locker room. Apparently many other FO's had the same opinion & he had worse issues than we knew.

Peters was going to be selected by Cleveland at 85, so we had to pull the trigger as he was obviously someone TD & Smitty definitely wanted. And after watching his interview & game videos, he's clearly underrated & should turn out to be an awesome selection.

WR Meier is another underrated player. Incredible hands, route running, football intelligence, & can play multiple positions including punt. I bet he surprises everyone & eventually turns out to be our biggest gem in this draft.

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Yes, I watched the first two days in their entirety and just got updates on Saturday.....

I'm a little disappointed but don' t really want to be negative on the website I do believe in Thomas Dimitroff so I think this draft will turn out OK - I just wonder if it could have been better.

I would like someone to ask Dimitroff why Everson Griffen, DE-USC was not a consideration in the 3rd round - we had two chances to get him and passed on him both times. I understand the kid may have some maturity issues and inconsistency in his play - but unless there is a major character problem and/or drug use - I don't understand - Obviously there must have been something because 32 teams passed on him 3 times before the Vikings took him in 4th round.

Also was frustrated that Falcons did not draft Riley Cooper or some other WRs I thought would have had better chances to develop into starters over Kerry Meier. Meier sounds like a guy you want to have on your team but just think we could have taken a guy with enough upside to start.

I think Corey Peters might would have lasted until 4th round but Dimitroff says "no"......

Overall, I would give the draft a "B-" but I understand my limitations on knowledge versus Dimitroff/Smith and their scouts - there is no way we can know 10% of what they know...

Loved Sean Weatherspoon, Mike Johnson and Dominque Franks picks. I like Corey Peters but think he was overdrafted......If I pulled the strings, draft probably would have looked like this based on who was available:

G-Dawg's Post-Draft Draft (G-Dawg < Dimitroff :rolleyes: )

#1-019) Sean Weatherspoon, WLB-Missouri (good pick with Graham/Morgan off the board)

#3-083) Everson Griffen, DE-USC (instead of Corey Peters-even Greg Hardy was available in 6th)

#3-098) Mike Johnson, OG-Alabama (good pick by Dimitroff - was not on my radar though)

#4-117) Corey Peters, DT-Kentucky (if he was gone Geno Atkins was available)

#5-135) Perish Cox, CB-Oklahoma State (instead of Dominque Franks think Cox is just a better player)

#5-165) Joe Hawley, OC/OG-UNLV ( think he would have lasted this long, if not Ted Larsen,OC-NC State - Belicheck/Pats took him so Dimitroff probably liked him)

#6-171) Carlton Mitchell, WR-South Florida (more developmental than Meier but much, much higher upside - compares to Brandon Marshall)

Granted, I have "hindsight" of knowing where all the players went that Dimitroff did not have. While there must be some type of issue with Griffen I think he will mature as a man and hopefully as a football player as he gets pro coaching and works on his craft. He has great upside and skill and would have been worth the gamble.

I think Perrish Cox is more complete corner than Dominque Franks and I think we needed a WR with more upside that has the speed/size to eventually be a successor to Michael Jenkins who just is not really good enough to be a starter for a playoff team.

I feel like my above draft still captures the "spirit" of what Dimitroff was trying to do with this draft but also allowing for players (Griffen/Cox) with more upside than Meier, Shillinger, and Franks....

Anyway those are my thoughts

Interesting nugget from MoveTheSticks yesterday (who was a pro scout for several teams and still has alot of connections in the league):

"I knew after the combine that Everson Griffen was going to drop like a box of rocks. Turned teams off in the interviews"

http://twitter.com/movethesticks

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Some of these questions have been answered. TD openly said he just didn't want Griffen in our locker room. Apparently many other FO's had the same opinion & he had worse issues than we knew.

Peters was going to be selected by Cleveland at 85, so we had to pull the trigger as he was obviously someone TD & Smitty definitely wanted. And after watching his interview & game videos, he's clearly underrated & should turn out to be an awesome selection.

WR Meier is another underrated player. Incredible hands, route running, football intelligence, & can play multiple positions including punt. I bet he surprises everyone & eventually turns out to be our biggest gem in this draft.

Jerk,

where did Dimitroff say this about Griffen? I don't doubt you but I watched all three days press conferences and never heard this - if you have a printed story or a interview link - I would like to read for myself.

As far as Meier goes, I don't think he's a bad pick. I just wanted someone that has enough upside to eventually start over Jenkins - not sure that Meier does. Sounds like a solid role player though.

How do we "know" that Cleveland was taking Corey Peters at #85? I heard Dimitroff elude to fact that he was told by some teams that they were very interested in Corey Peters but not that much detail - do tell :)

Edited by g-dawg
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Peters would not be on our team based on your draft because cleveland would have snagged him up at 85 and with the run on DT in the 2nd and 3rd rounds we dont know what we would have ended up with in the 4th round. TD interviewed/workout Griffen and in a post interview on 680/790 stated that Griffen may not have been a great fit for our locker room and may not have gelled with our current chemistry, which is a big part of our current and future success. I dont mind Cox over Franks but Franks is faster and has more upside IMO, but wouldnt mind picking up Cox. There are scouting reports that question Carlton Mitchell hands which is the reason why he fell, and I after looking after highlight of Miere he seems like a very good possession WR that knows how to get open and how to hold onto the Football and could be Ryans best friend over the long term.

YOur mock is cool though.

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Jerk,

where did Dimitroff say this about Griffen? I don't doubt you but I watched all three days press conferences and never heard this - if you have a printed story or a interview link - I would like to read for myself.

As far as Meier goes, I don't think he's a bad pick. I just wanted someone that has enough upside to eventually start over Jenkins - not sure that Meier does. Sounds like a solid role player though.

How do we "know" that Cleveland was taking Corey Peters at #85? I heard Dimitroff elude to fact that he was told by some teams that they were very interested in Corey Peters but not that much detail - do tell :)

Gdawg there are a good amount of threads that would answer your questions, you have missed alot over the weaekend on the boards as far as information

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Interesting nugget from MoveTheSticks yesterday (who was a pro scout for several teams and still has alot of connections in the league):

"I knew after the combine that Everson Griffen was going to drop like a box of rocks. Turned teams off in the interviews"

http://twitter.com/movethesticks

well, one thing is for certain - "whatever Everson did" - he cost himself millions of dollars!!! dumbarss...

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Loved Sean Weatherspoon, Mike Johnson and Dominque Franks picks. I like Corey Peters but think he was overdrafted......If I pulled the strings, draft probably would have looked like this based on who was available:

G-Dawg's Post-Draft Draft (G-Dawg < Dimitroff :rolleyes: )

#1-019) Sean Weatherspoon, WLB-Missouri (good pick with Graham/Morgan off the board)

#3-083) Everson Griffen, DE-USC (instead of Corey Peters)

#3-098) Mike Johnson, OG-Alabama (good pick by Dimitroff - was not on my radar though)

#4-117) Corey Peters, DT-Kentucky (if he was gone Geno Atkins was available)

#5-135) Perish Cox, CB-Oklahoma State (instead of Dominque Franks think Cox is just a better player)

#5-165) Joe Hawley, OC/OG-UNLV ( think he would have lasted this long, if not Ted Larsen,OC-NC State - Belicheck/Pats took him so Dimitroff probably liked him)

#6-171) Carlton Mitchell, WR-South Florida (more developmental than Meier but much, much higher upside - compares to Brandon Marshall)

Also was frustrated that Falcons did not draft Riley Cooper or some other WRs I thought would have had better chances to develop into starters over Kerry Meier. Meier sounds like a guy you want to have on your team but just think we could have taken a guy with enough upside to start.

My first thought is that two of your picks, Everson Griffen and Perish Cox, had some type of character issues. It appears that Dimitroff will not select a player unless he is convinced that any character flaws are in the player's past, and will not impact future play. I know that Griffen's so-called character flaws did not preclude him from Atlanta's draft consideration, because the Falcons did have a private workout with him. However after working him out and personally talking with him, Dimi must not have been convinced that Griffen's character issues (inconsistency, unmotivated at times, not playing up to physical ability, questionable love for the game, etc) were completely behind him.

Like you, I was hoping that Atlanta would select a "name" WR a little earlier in the draft, like Shipley or Cooper, who I thought could seriously challenge for the #2 WR spot. I was somewhat outdone when Atlanta selected Meier, primarily because I didn't know hardly anything about him. However, upon learning more about Meier, he might turn out to be a very good selection at that particular pick after all.

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sorry, been w/ kids a lot Sat/Sun. and have not had time to review.....apologize if I am wasting bandwidth Jaymadd! :rolleyes:

use up all the bandwidth you want to, I dont care LOL, just wanted to let you know, maybe i could have worded it differently wasnt trying to be smart of anything.

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sorry, been w/ kids a lot Sat/Sun. and have not had time to review.....apologize if I am wasting bandwidth Jaymadd! :rolleyes:

dawg, You're not wasting bandwidth, although others are. [ not that I'm drawing a swift conclusion]

There's also reports that Griffen's coaches were glad to be rid of him.

Think that Meir starts next year, if not by midseason- he's an incredibly smart football player that catches everything that comes his way. We're going to love our 4 wide sets this year.

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Yea, while I was not sold like you were on Griffen, from what I heard he rubbed teams the wrong way. Kind of like '08 when folks were clamoring for Dorsey and then Brohm later. It came out from some sources that even if we weren't taking Ryan we were NEVER taking Brohm b/c apparently he rubbed the FO the wrong way in his interviews.

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Jerk,

where did Dimitroff say this about Griffen? I don't doubt you but I watched all three days press conferences and never heard this - if you have a printed story or a interview link - I would like to read for myself.

As far as Meier goes, I don't think he's a bad pick. I just wanted someone that has enough upside to eventually start over Jenkins - not sure that Meier does. Sounds like a solid role player though.

How do we "know" that Cleveland was taking Corey Peters at #85? I heard Dimitroff elude to fact that he was told by some teams that they were very interested in Corey Peters but not that much detail - do tell :)

It's all good G. There's people here I don't mind rehashing stuff for.

You'll notice a clear theme with our picks after watching some of their videos & you're one of the more sensible guys around here so you'll come around to them quickly I believe.

Every pick is similar in that they are all smart, speak & interview well, knows how to scheme on the chalkboard, is a first to arrive last to leave workhorse, has a huge motor, can bring leadership & enthusiasm to the locker room, can play multiple positions, has virtually no injury history, & will have absolutely zero off field issues.

The multiple positions thing is clearly a much bigger part of TD & Smitty's philosophy than anyone knew.

Spoon is Spoon, everyone knows what he can do.

Peters is very underrated & can probably enter the left or right DT rotation day 1 & do very well. He's a film watcher too, always wants to know who he's about to go up against so he can plan how to play them. This is huge.

Johnson is insanely underrated IMO. He didn't miss a game in 3 years of starting. He was the key blocker for more than half of the Heisman trophy winners run plays & he was a cog for the OL on the national championship team. He can also play RG, LG, some OC, & even RT if needed. He's better than Asamoah, Ducasse, & Jerry IMO.

Hawley is also underrated. Watch his film, it's amazing how fast this kid is for his size(4.8x at 6'3" 305lbs). He benched 225 35 times too & can squat a truckload. Allowed only 1 sack in last 2 years. In addition to playing OC, he can play RG, LG, & long snap. That's a huge deal if we can free up a 53 spot with a regular OL who can be the LS too.

Franks was just good value for where we got him & after watching his film, he's as good or better than Cox & the other DB's who got drafted around him. The difference is he's another very smart kid who speaks well, interviews well, can draw on the chalkboard, knows where to be & he's probably faster than the other DB's, can also return kicks & play ST's.

Meier as I stated earlier is likely our biggest gem. 4.5-4.6 speed, but he's 6'2 & 220lbs & has incredible hands & uncanny ability to find open space & knows exactly where the 1st down line & sidelines are at all times. He can also block, play some H-back/trick play throwing/running option, place holder for kicks, & can also boom some long punts from what is said.

Schillinger is probably our long shot. His film looks good & he could be a gem, but who knows. Maybe he beats out Giordano for the 4th safety spot or becomes a ST warrior. He's another smart guy, super athletic, & no off field issues.

This should save you some time reading through all the pages you missed while you were gone. There's a ton of crap to filter through. I would mostly look for the video threads, watch those & you're good.

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I would like someone to ask Dimitroff why Everson Griffen, DE-USC was not a consideration in the 3rd round - we had two chances to get him and passed on him both times. I understand the kid may have some maturity issues and inconsistency in his play - but unless there is a major character problem and/or drug use - I don't understand - Obviously there must have been something because 32 teams passed on him 3 times before the Vikings took him in 4th round.

I can actually understand why we passed on Griffen; he really doesn't look like a TD type pick. What I don't understand is why we passed on Wootton on third or at least why we didn't make a push for him early fourth. While Griffen is not TD type, Wootton looks every bit like a player TD would draft: hard working, relentless motor, high character and on top of that with 1st round talent. He also seemed to be fully back from injury. I wish we had moved up from our fourth to get him.

Edited by dmo_dlo
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It's all good G. There's people here I don't mind rehashing stuff for.

You'll notice a clear theme with our picks after watching some of their videos & you're one of the more sensible guys around here so you'll come around to them quickly I believe.

Every pick is similar in that they are all smart, speak & interview well, knows how to scheme on the chalkboard, is a first to arrive last to leave workhorse, has a huge motor, can bring leadership & enthusiasm to the locker room, can play multiple positions, has virtually no injury history, & will have absolutely zero off field issues.

The multiple positions thing is clearly a much bigger part of TD & Smitty's philosophy than anyone knew.

Spoon is Spoon, everyone knows what he can do.

Peters is very underrated & can probably enter the left or right DT rotation day 1 & do very well. He's a film watcher too, always wants to know who he's about to go up against so he can plan how to play them. This is huge.

Johnson is insanely underrated IMO. He didn't miss a game in 3 years of starting. He was the key blocker for more than half of the Heisman trophy winners run plays & he was a cog for the OL on the national championship team. He can also play RG, LG, some OC, & even RT if needed. He's better than Asamoah, Ducasse, & Jerry IMO.

Hawley is also underrated. Watch his film, it's amazing how fast this kid is for his size(4.8x at 6'3" 305lbs). He benched 225 35 times too & can squat a truckload. Allowed only 1 sack in last 2 years. In addition to playing OC, he can play RG, LG, & long snap. That's a huge deal if we can free up a 53 spot with a regular OL who can be the LS too.

Franks was just good value for where we got him & after watching his film, he's as good or better than Cox & the other DB's who got drafted around him. The difference is he's another very smart kid who speaks well, interviews well, can draw on the chalkboard, knows where to be & he's probably faster than the other DB's, can also return kicks & play ST's.

Meier as I stated earlier is likely our biggest gem. 4.5-4.6 speed, but he's 6'2 & 220lbs & has incredible hands & uncanny ability to find open space & knows exactly where the 1st down line & sidelines are at all times. He can also block, play some H-back/trick play throwing/running option, place holder for kicks, & can also boom some long punts from what is said.

Schillinger is probably our long shot. His film looks good & he could be a gem, but who knows. Maybe he beats out Giordano for the 4th safety spot or becomes a ST warrior. He's another smart guy, super athletic, & no off field issues.

This should save you some time reading through all the pages you missed while you were gone. There's a ton of crap to filter through. I would mostly look for the video threads, watch those & you're good.

good post, jerky.....+1 to you my friend.

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I think a lot of people were fairly confused G-Dawg. But, as per normal, when you look into the picks, you see they were team captains, multi year starters, and lunch pail type of guys. Don't think Griffen was on the radar.

I personally would feel way better if we took a 3rd round WR (Andre Roberts, Taylor Price) or simply took Riley Cooper in the 4th instead of Hawley (and take Hawley later).

That said, it's hard to go wrong when you keep beefing up the trenches.

A good question to ask yourself is "would I have liked this draft if we took player x in the 4th round" (for me Riley Cooper). If the answer is yes, it's a pretty good draft, because you're only quibbling over one 3rd or 4th rounder.

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I think a lot of people were fairly confused G-Dawg. But, as per normal, when you look into the picks, you see they were team captains, multi year starters, and lunch pail type of guys. Don't think Griffen was on the radar.

I personally would feel way better if we took a 3rd round WR (Andre Roberts, Taylor Price) or simply took Riley Cooper in the 4th instead of Hawley (and take Hawley later).

That said, it's hard to go wrong when you keep beefing up the trenches.

A good question to ask yourself is "would I have liked this draft if we took player x in the 4th round" (for me Riley Cooper). If the answer is yes, it's a pretty good draft, because you're only quibbling over one 3rd or 4th rounder.

I bet dollars to donuts that Meier has a better career than any of those other receivers. And I bet Hawley ends up being a gem aswell. Just watch.

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I would like someone to ask Dimitroff why Everson Griffen, DE-USC was not a consideration in the 3rd round - we had two chances to get him and passed on him both times. I understand the kid may have some maturity issues and inconsistency in his play - but unless there is a major character problem and/or drug use - I don't understand - Obviously there must have been something because 32 teams passed on him 3 times before the Vikings took him in 4th round.

Dimitroff was on 680 this AM and he specifically addressed Griffen by saying that while he was one of the more talented pass rushers in the draft, you have to ask if he's a fit for your team on the field and in the locker room. I suspect that in their evaluations, they came to the conclusion that he was not a good fit no matter how much value he might have presented on draft day.

Also was frustrated that Falcons did not draft Riley Cooper or some other WRs I thought would have had better chances to develop into starters over Kerry Meier. Meier sounds like a guy you want to have on your team but just think we could have taken a guy with enough upside to start.

One thing I've had to do when I evaluate and even project is understand that my viewpoints on players might not be shared by the front office. I think Jenkins needs to be replaced - pure and simple. Dimitroff does not and if that is the case...then at this point in time, he's got his starters. When he looks for WR talent, he's going to look situationally. He has a smaller/quicker WR in the slot in Douglas. What he felt he needed was a younger/bigger possession type who could be a Finneran type presence. Would I have liked for a higher priority to have been placed on this position? Sure...but I can understand why it wasn't if certain beliefs I have aren't held by those in charge.

I think Corey Peters might would have lasted until 4th round but Dimitroff says "no"......

Peter King in his MMQB already confirmed that Holmgren at #85 (two spots after the Falcons) would have snapped up Peters.

My POV on evaluating drafts has changed over the years to simply wanting to understand why moves are made. If I can figure it out, then I have no qualms with the player selected. I simply can't as a fan presume to have more knowledge about scouting players than the pros do. And while we all thought for instance that a Matt Tennant was a perfect fit at C in large part because of his BC connection with Ryan, Round 3-4 was where I though we should grab this position and we did.

At the end of the day, I can go through each of the picks and say "I get it".

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G-Dawg's Post-Draft Draft (G-Dawg < Dimitroff :rolleyes: )

#1-019) Sean Weatherspoon, WLB-Missouri (good pick with Graham/Morgan off the board)

#3-083) Everson Griffen, DE-USC (instead of Corey Peters-even Greg Hardy was available in 6th)

#3-098) Mike Johnson, OG-Alabama (good pick by Dimitroff - was not on my radar though)

#4-117) Corey Peters, DT-Kentucky (if he was gone Geno Atkins was available)

#5-135) Perish Cox, CB-Oklahoma State (instead of Dominque Franks think Cox is just a better player)

#5-165) Joe Hawley, OC/OG-UNLV ( think he would have lasted this long, if not Ted Larsen,OC-NC State - Belicheck/Pats took him so Dimitroff probably liked him)

#6-171) Carlton Mitchell, WR-South Florida (more developmental than Meier but much, much higher upside - compares to Brandon Marshall)

Only change I'd make would be to throw Eric Decker in over Griffen and then replace Carlton Mitchell with Jim Dray.

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One thing I've had to do when I evaluate and even project is understand that my viewpoints on players might not be shared by the front office. I think Jenkins needs to be replaced - pure and simple. Dimitroff does not and if that is the case...then at this point in time, he's got his starters. When he looks for WR talent, he's going to look situationally. He has a smaller/quicker WR in the slot in Douglas. What he felt he needed was a younger/bigger possession type who could be a Finneran type presence. Would I have liked for a higher priority to have been placed on this position? Sure...but I can understand why it wasn't if certain beliefs I have aren't held by those in charge.

I agree in large part TDW, but sometimes the board doesn't fall the way they want. A run on WRs happened right after our pick at 83...and they simply may have been caught by surprise.

Even if you think you have your starters, you want a guy who "could be" a starter, in case there's an injury. I like the Finn type, but a guy who can be a legit top 3 option is important, because the likelihood all 3 of your receivers stay healthy all year is slim.

If you take injury off the table, it's a different story. Overall, we got guys we could use. I'd bet they'd like to have a WR, too, but something didn't happen as they expected. Of course, I've lost bets before.

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I bet dollars to donuts that Meier has a better career than any of those other receivers. And I bet Hawley ends up being a gem aswell. Just watch.

I'm pretty sure you'd lose that bet, and I'd gladly take it.

However, since we have Meier and not those other guys, I hope he becomes great.

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I agree in large part TDW, but sometimes the board doesn't fall the way they want. A run on WRs happened right after our pick at 83...and they simply may have been caught by surprise.

Even if you think you have your starters, you want a guy who "could be" a starter, in case there's an injury. I like the Finn type, but a guy who can be a legit top 3 option is important, because the likelihood all 3 of your receivers stay healthy all year is slim.

If you take injury off the table, it's a different story. Overall, we got guys we could use. I'd bet they'd like to have a WR, too, but something didn't happen as they expected. Of course, I've lost bets before.

In reality, the run on WR's began prior to our #83 pick. Starting at #77 and going to the 90th pick - 7 WR's were selected. Lafell, Williams and Sanders went before us; Shipley, Decker, Roberts & Price went after us in that span. Either way, I doubt Dimitroff was caught by surprise in the sense that the run had already begun and two of the teams who drafted right after the Falcons were Denver & NE who TD has good communication with.

If TD knew that Peters was going to be selected at #85, then at best (relating to the potential choice of a WR at #83) he made a choice on priority and at worst, simply wasn't considering this position then.

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